Hi,Originally Posted by 94duke
I missed where it says what the penalty is, just that it is against the rules. It is probably against the rules to have "recreational" drugs and plenty of students use those too. Having and firing a gun on campus should carry some penalty, but if nobody was hurt it seems that a years suspension and being kicking off of the football team (most likely losing the scholarship for good) is quite a penalty.
GO DUKE!
If a student is caught with cocaine, I'm guessing he would be kicked out of school for a year. Isn't it the case that when a student gets a DUI, he is kicked out for at least a semester (and maybe longer)? I would hope the penalty for having a gun on campus would be at least a year. We're not talking about an unloaded hunting rifle that someone accidentally left in their car, we're talking about a loaded handgun that was actually fired.
The student judicial process is far more complicated than you think. The penalty depends on a variety of issues. Often, choosing to admit responsibility leads to a lower penalty from the UCB (Undergraduate Conduct Board) than if you go to a full UCB trial. There's no required sanctions for misconduct, simply a recommended sanction. DUI doesn't necessarily lead to suspension (it does some of the time, though). A gun on campus is more likely to lead to a suspension, as is possession of an illegal drug (anything beyond alcohol or marijuana - they're stricter on pot than alcohol, but even more strict on anything beyond pot). Students have more of a say than do administrators in the process, and the point of the process isn't to punish but instead to make sure the student learns from his/her mistake and does something to better the campus to prevent others to do so.
Cutcliffe's team rules are different from the UCB process.
Trinity 2011
Duke University Marching Band
And both may well be overshadowed by North Carolina laws regarding felonious possession and discharge of a weapon.
It is a FELONY to possess a firearm on any college campus - private or public - in the state of North Carolina.
It's part of a "Safe Schools Act" - and covers ALL schools (preschool to graduate school, private/public/religious/you name it).
See:
Before anyone says this is against the 2nd amendment, the courts have routinely ruled that the state has an overreaching "compelling interest" in school safety.Excerpted from North Carolina Firearm Laws
As published by the North Carolina Department of Justice
http://www.jus.state.nc.us/NCJA/ncfirearmslaws.pdf
North Carolina General Statute § 14-269.2 provides that it is a Class I Felony for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any gun, rifle, pistol, or other firearm of any kind, on [any] educational property or to a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by a school.
These prohibitions will apply in/on any school building or bus, school campus, grounds, recreational area, athletic field, or other property owned, used, or operated by any board of education or school board of trustees, or directors for the administration of any school.
It is a misdemeanor, rather than a Class I Felony, for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any gun, rifle, pistol, or other firearm of any kind, on educational property or to a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by a school if:
a. The person is not a student attending school on the educational property, or an employee employed by the school working on the educational property; and
b. The person is not a student attending a curricular or extra-curricular activity sponsored by the school at which the student is enrolled, or an employee attending a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by the school at which the employee is working; and
c. The firearm is not loaded, is in a motor vehicle, and is in a locked container or a locked firearm rack. The aforementioned prohibitions will not apply to:
a. A weapon used solely for educational or school sanctioned ceremonial purposes, or used in a school approved program conducted under the supervision of an adult, whose supervision has been approved by the school authority;
b. Fire fighters, emergency service personnel, North Carolina Forest Service personnel, and any private police employed by an educational institution, when acting in the discharge of their official duties;
c. Those persons exempted by N.C.G.S. § 14-269(b), as set forth in Paragraph III. A. of this publication;
d. Home schools;
e. A person registered under Chapter 74C of the North Carolina General Statutes as an armed armored car service guard; or an armed, courier service guard, when acting in the discharge of the guard’s duties and with the permission of the college or university; or
f. A person registered under Chapter 74C of the North Carolina General Statutes as an armed security guard while on the premises of a hospital or health care facility, located on educational property, when acting in the discharge of the guard’s duties with the permission of the college or university.
No person is guilty of a criminal violation of this section so long as both of the following apply:
a. The person comes into possession of a weapon by taking or receiving the weapon from another person, or by finding the weapon.; and
b. The person delivers the weapon, directly or indirectly, as soon as practical to law enforcement authorities.
A concealed handgun permit does not allow a permittee to carry a weapon on any school grounds. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-415.11(c)
Lastly, in the era of Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois shootings (and the like), I would think ANYONE who suggests anything less of mandatory suspension or expulsion is irresponsible. I don't care if it's a football player or a sorority girl, a duck hunting rifle or a semi-automatic handgun, fired or not.
(And yes, I have been to a shooting range before and am in no way "anti-gun").
Perhaps the football players were part of a well regulated militia.
Sorry to say, but good riddence to these young men, if the charges are found to be true. Let's wait to see all the facts...
Cut handled this unfortunate situation swiftly and correctly. It's sad that he was forced to act, but he did so with the integrity Duke University, the football program, and certainly these players that he cares about, in mind. These young men absolutely deserve our prayers and support. Forgetting football, they just may have thrown away one of the best opportunites they will have in their life. I hope they can return to school somehow, even if football is done for them. Actions have consequences....they will get a second chance somewhere down the line.
Last edited by Verga3; 01-18-2010 at 11:01 PM. Reason: bad spelling/prose again
Despite that, the school will generally give you some amount of time before they take action until the legal process playing out, within reason. There are no crimes which are mandatory suspensions or expulsions as I'm aware of, just ones which are 99.99% certain to end up that way based on how the UCB works. Gun possession and plagiarism are 2 of those which fall under that category, I'd guess.
Trinity 2011
Duke University Marching Band
I had forgotten about this. Great cite.
And well said.
How dare you come in here with facts, citations, and a well reasoned argument?
WWJDD?
I'm waiting for the inevitable argument that allowing concealed carry by properly vetted law-abiding citizens will make our campuses safer. After all, Cho at VT could have been stopped before he shot 30+ people if only everyone had been armed.
Unfortunately, in Virginia a person who is not affiliated with the university can carry openly on campus. We had a meeting of a group supporting concealed carry on campus, and some outsiders came with guns on their hips.
Its a shame that actions or mishaps may derail positive momentum.
I see Cut making some adjustments in the face of the recruiting disappointments and possibly other factors. We have been struggling getting more interest among o lineman. However, we just got a verbal from an o lineman in Louisanna with other major offers who was identified as a good student and then invited for a visit. As Chris Kennedy has mentioned, better students also are happier at Duke, which can help the Football Program. The important thing is to make the adjustments and recruit higher ranked players who will do well at Duke - and hopefully avoid felony possession charges.
Can we please not go there? Pretty please?
EDIT: I understand the original comment was almost certainly sarcastic. Unfortunately on the internet one person's witty sarcasm is another person's first shot fired in a flame war.
I agree, and the new commitment is a pretty good player. His name is Alex Hill, and while LSU never offered him a scholarship, he got some interest in the summer. He can play either center or guard and is considered one of the top 30 players in a talented state, at least by Rivals. For some reason, Scout has not evaluated him yet.
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