Gas Overflow and Liability

[EarlJam]

A friend of mine went to a Texaco yesterday, inserted the gas nozzle in his car and went inside to pay cash for some items (was paying for the gas with a card at the pump). When he came outside, he was suprised to see the meter on the tank still turning. Problem is, the tank was full. Gas was pouring from the tank.

Whatever mechanism there is on the nozzle for the automatic shut-off, well, it didn't automatically shut off. He went inside and complained but the person at the counter said it was his own fault.

Now, horrid customer service aside, who's right from a technical stand point.

To take it a step further, if a spark would have ignited a flame resulting in damage to the car, or injury or a human bursting into flames, would the owners of the pump be liable at all if the auto shut-off thingy were proven to be farshoozled?

Thoughts?

-EarlJam

[riverside6]

Being the kind of person that reads anything and everything around him I know that typically it says on the pumps that you shouldn't leave the pump and also not responsible for overflow.

So, I think your buddy is in the wrong on this one.

[EarlJam]

Being the kind of person that reads anything and everything around him I know that typically it says on the pumps that you shouldn't leave the pump and also not responsible for overflow.

So, I think your buddy is in the wrong on this one.

Thanks. Actually, yes, he is technically a friend but the last time we played tennis he beat me and talked smack afterwards. I kind of wish he'd gone up in flames, full-scale Hindenburg style.

-EarlJam

[blublood]

Thanks. Actually, yes, he is technically a friend but the last time we played tennis he beat me and talked smack afterwards. I kind of wish he'd gone up in flames, full-scale Hindenburg style.

-EarlJam

Wow - remind me never to play tennis with you!! : ) (or at least, never to beat you... )

[OZZIE4DUKE]

A friend of mine went to a Texaco yesterday, inserted the gas nozzle in his car and went inside to pay cash for some items (was paying for the gas with a card at the pump). When he came outside, he was suprised to see the meter on the tank still turning. Problem is, the tank was full. Gas was pouring from the tank.

Whatever mechanism there is on the nozzle for the automatic shut-off, well, it didn't automatically shut off. He went inside and complained but the person at the counter said it was his own fault.

Now, horrid customer service aside, who's right from a technical stand point.


That happened to me a few weeks ago with a pump I had used previously, although I was standing only 4 feet away from the nozzle cleaning my rear windshield when the overflow started. I wasn't happy, pumping all that money onto the ground, but at least it was only a buck or so. No telling what horrible pollution I foisted upon the earth, all those hydrocarbons and so forth.

[EarlJam]

No telling what horrible pollution I foisted upon the earth, all those hydrocarbons and so forth.

At first I thought you wrote, "hydrocodone" and I got really excited.

Then, after re-reading, I got really sad.

-EarlJam

[cato]

To take it a step further, if a spark would have ignited a flame resulting in damage to the car, or injury or a human bursting into flames, would the owners of the pump be liable at all if the auto shut-off thingy were proven to be farshoozled?


It depends. If you could show that this has happened before, and that the owners knew of the issue (or should have known), you would argue that the owner's negligence in maintaining the pump contributed to the issue. But your buddy would still be negligent for walking away from his car and leaving the pump unattended. When you think about it, that's a pretty dangerous thing to do.

[WeepingThomasHill]

Not only is your friend guilty (and irresponsible), if the gas station blew up while he was inside getting a 44 oz Coke and Combos, it would be his negligence. As someone noted earlier, the signs clearly indicate that you should not leave the pump unattended.

[EarlJam]

Not only is your friend guilty (and irresponsible), if the gas station blew up while he was inside getting a 44 oz Coke and Combos, it would be his negligence. As someone noted earlier, the signs clearly indicate that you should not leave the pump unattended.

Well, like I said, I wish he'd have died anyway.

-EarlJam

P.S. Just kidding.

P.S.S. Does just putting up a sign about anything make you no longer liable? For instance, could you put up a sign that reads, "If you come within a foot of me, I may strike you" and be able to strike someone in said circumstance? That's a bad example, because striking someone is illegal. Anyway....

[juise]

As an Oregonian, I am happy to say that I would not be liable for an overflow because we are not allowed to pump our own gas.

On the negative side, I would be sitting in my car as it burst into flames. Bummer.

[CameronBornAndBred]

That's a bad example, because striking someone is illegal. Anyway....

Not if you have your sign.

[sue71]

P.S.S. Does just putting up a sign about anything make you no longer liable? For instance, could you put up a sign that reads, "If you come within a foot of me, I may strike you" and be able to strike someone in said circumstance? That's a bad example, because striking someone is illegal. Anyway....

Well... think about the back of a ticket you buy to a sporting event and all the disclaimers / "We're not responsible if you [get hit by a fly ball, etc]" and the pregame announcements. There have been cases where a person got hit by a fly ball, etc, and won their case. Both cases are inherent risk, but would that type of logic apply here?

[cato]

Well... think about the back of a ticket you buy to a sporting event and all the disclaimers / "We're not responsible if you [get hit by a fly ball, etc]" and the pregame announcements. There have been cases where a person got hit by a fly ball, etc, and won their case. Both cases are inherent risk, but would that type of logic apply here?

The sign doesn't absolve the gas station owner/operator of liability. It just helps their case against the dude who leaves the pump unattended. If something bad happens, he can't say, "Hey, how was I supposed to know that walking away from my car while pumping highly flammable fuel into the tank could lead to problems?" Dude, didn't you read the sign?

[Jarhead]

Doesn't anybody think that stupidity is the word for this? It would also apply for anyone who starts pumping on a cold winter day, retreats to the warmer interior of the car, gets out of the car when the gas pump stops, and touches the hose handle, causing a spark that ignites the gas fumes, and burns down the gas station. I'll bet there are videos of this happening on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grQYr507r_A). Now the real question. Is stupidity actionable?

[Channing]

It has been a while since I took a torts class, but I think the legal standard comes down to how the gas pumper is classified. Because the gas station has in effect "invited" the "gas pumper" onto his premise to conduct business, the liability of the gas station stems from the general rule that one who invites another on their premise to do business must exercise ordinary care and prudence to maintain a safe environment.

If I were litigating this case I think you could make a pretty good argument that the "stay at your pump" rule is more of a suggestion than a rule. The rule is never enforced (as far as I have ever seen). The pumper was clearly on the premise for the mutual benefit of both parties, and if the gas station owner has any notice whatsoever that the pump was faulty there was a duty to fix it or take the pump out of service.

You cannot eliminate your duty merely by putting a sign up, especially if it not a completely conspicuous sign that really sticks out.

[allenmurray]

one who invites another on their premise to do business must exercise ordinary care and prudence to maintain a safe environment.

if the gas station owner has any notice whatsoever that the pump was faulty there was a duty to fix it or take the pump out of service.

You cannot eliminate your duty merely by putting a sign up, especially if it not a completely conspicuous sign that really sticks out.

I'm not a lawyer, but what you say makes sense (is there room for that in the law - is there a claim to common sense?).

It the thing kept pumping then it was broken. That is not how they are supposed to work. Even if the guy had stayed at his car, the broken pump might have resulted in him getting gasoline all over himself, or even worse. Who would be at fault then? The owner, for having faulty equipment. It was thr broken equipment that caused theproblem. Moving away from the equipment made the probelm worse (by allowing more gas to spill) but it was not the cause of the original problem.

[EarlJam]

Doesn't anybody think that stupidity is the word for this?

Yes.

-EJ

[pamtar]

Two years ago I was filling up my boat at the country club dock down in Little Washington. While I as waiting for the gas to pump I began adding oil to the reservoir and straightening up the deck. The boat holds 75 gallons. The dock attendant began pumping diesel for another boat while a friend and I chatted. After ~130 gallons the pump was still going. Then I noticed that the nozzle was in the rod holder.

I paid dearly. Gas on the dock is taxed heavily and therefor much more expensive (at the time like 4.00/gal) The bilge of my boat was full of gas and I was scared to crank the engine. I had to swim the boat to the ramp to pull it out of the water. Then I had to empty the bilge into 3 50 gallon drums, re-do all the wiring throughout the gunwales and let the boat air out for over a week.

Pay attention.

[Jarhead]

I'll accept that the signs are no more that educational, but in the end, stupidity is what burns people. Maybe we should have a provision for contributing stupidity.

[merry]

As an Oregonian, I am happy to say that I would not be liable for an overflow because we are not allowed to pump our own gas.

On the negative side, I would be sitting in my car as it burst into flames. Bummer.

We vacationed in Oregon several years ago and I just about gave some poor gas station worker a heart attack when I jumped out of our rental car, popped the gas cap and started trying to operate the pump. After I apologized and said I though it was self service (it was one of those huge, interstate-side stations with about 20 pumps) he told me there were NO self service pumps in Oregon. I asked if that was an environmental measure, thinking they want to avoid fumes and spills from people messing up, and he looked at me like I was a complete idiot and said "No! You don't want your car to explode or something do you?"

Is that really why there are no self service pumps in Oregon?

[TheRose77]

Merry, I was in Oregon a few years ago and did the same thing. My brother- in-law, who lives in Eugene, told me (tongue-in-cheek, I think) that Oregon wants trained professionals to pump the gas for safety reasons. Then you take a look at the "trained professionals" and wonder why the whole state hasn't been blown to kingdom come.

[GopherBlue]

Two years ago I was filling up my boat at the country club dock down in Little Washington. While I as waiting for the gas to pump I began adding oil to the reservoir and straightening up the deck. The boat holds 75 gallons. The dock attendant began pumping diesel for another boat while a friend and I chatted. After ~130 gallons the pump was still going. Then I noticed that the nozzle was in the rod holder.

I paid dearly. Gas on the dock is taxed heavily and therefor much more expensive (at the time like 4.00/gal) The bilge of my boat was full of gas and I was scared to crank the engine. I had to swim the boat to the ramp to pull it out of the water. Then I had to empty the bilge into 3 50 gallon drums, re-do all the wiring throughout the gunwales and let the boat air out for over a week.

Pay attention.

Was there a sign on the dock instructing you not to pump gas into the rod holder?

Lawyer up - Papa needs a new boat! :D

[juise]

Is that really why there are no self service pumps in Oregon?

There are actually a few reasons the law was created in 1951 and has held up to this day.

1. To protect motorists from themselves.
2. To protect the environment from careless pumping.
3. For the benefit of the disabled and elderly.

I have also heard the argument that it creates jobs, which seems kind of silly... and I haven't seen that in writing. If you Google "self-service gas oregon," you'll find some interesting commentary. Here's a Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_station#Full_service_vs._self_service) blurb.

[Exiled_Devil]

Joisey has a similar law. Interestingly, it is still cheaper to get gas in NJ than any neighboring state.

My dad was a truck driver and business owner and used to gripe about how much he had to do for gas and oil handling for his business when almost every state in the country was eliminating full serve gas. He had to get special training fr people to let them handle petroleum products at work, and then they pumped their own gas on the way home.

Any other states but OR and NJ with no self-serve?

Also, your friends fault, but I feel for him because I do the exact same thing all the time. Incidentally, its a shame that industry is so hard hit that gas stations can't keep up their equipment. Maybe the government should give them a hand...

[xenic]

A friend of mine went to a Texaco yesterday, inserted the gas nozzle in his car and went inside to pay cash for some items (was paying for the gas with a card at the pump). When he came outside, he was suprised to see the meter on the tank still turning. Problem is, the tank was full. Gas was pouring from the tank.

Whatever mechanism there is on the nozzle for the automatic shut-off, well, it didn't automatically shut off. He went inside and complained but the person at the counter said it was his own fault.

Now, horrid customer service aside, who's right from a technical stand point.

To take it a step further, if a spark would have ignited a flame resulting in damage to the car, or injury or a human bursting into flames, would the owners of the pump be liable at all if the auto shut-off thingy were proven to be farshoozled?

Thoughts?

-EarlJam

I'm sure many others have pointed this out, but there are signs all over the place to not leave the pump unattended. I'd be shocked if there was anything he could do about it.
Also, do you know if the pump was broken or just had a one time malfunction?

[summerwind03]

I think I've read/heard that some gas stations are removing the automatic shut off things so you are FORCED to hold the pump the entire time. Annoying, but I now see the point.

I know NJ doesn't allow self serve and it is primarily due to the extra employment that allows. The gas is NJ is usually cheaper than in surrounding states, though.

[Truth]

I know NJ doesn't allow self serve and it is primarily due to the extra employment that allows. The gas is NJ is usually cheaper than in surrounding states, though.

Can you explain this apparent contradiction?

[DevilAlumna]

My guess would be that taxes are lower in NJ.

Whether that's in part due to the fact that full service is mandated (can't highly tax AND "impose" service at the same time) is beyond me.

[summerwind03]

I don't know the particulars, but I remember hearing something about the gas stations agreeing to keep prices on the low end in order to keep employing the gas attendants? I agree it doesn't make much sense.

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

the same gas station I visit all the time told me about this law just last week. I was surprised. Defiantly don't want to be liable for a new gas station.