Lost 2-28 (non specific spoilers)

[OZZIE4DUKE]

This was the most satisfying episode they've ever aired. Getting Desmond "cured" of what ails him, his reconnecting with Penny, our learning that time travel, or perhaps time displacement, is what the show is all about, all I can say is WOW! Like I said, very satisfying.

I guess Miles is still sitting in the chair with a hand grenade in his mouth. I think he could use some time travel, like to next week's episode!

And hey, we've got a whole new set of numbers to work with (Penny's phone number). Anybody add them up?

[dcarp23]

I don't really know what to think about it, but I think it has to be significant that Sayid says he did not realize that it was Christmas already. From the discussion between Miles and Jack, time runs more quickly on the Island but Sayid's comment makes it seem the other way around. Regardless, it was 2004 in the real world and on the Island, so the difference in time between the two places cannot be THAT significant.

Prior to last night, I thought the fact that Jack asked the captain if the Red Sox really won the Series was significant. I expected the captain to at some point say, yeah, but that was 13 years ago. So that theory is now gone with the phone call to Penny, and I have a clue as to the final answer of the time travel mystery.

[riverside6]

LostPedia (http://lostpedia.com/wiki/The_Constant)has the following to say about the difference in time...


According to the calendar on the wall, as well as Desmond, the real-time events of this episode take place on Day 94 (Christmas Eve) when Sayid, Desmond and Frank left the island. This means that while it is Day 94 on the Freighter, it is actually Day 96 on the Island.

[blublood]

This was the most satisfying episode they've ever aired.

Without a doubt!! In the spirit of not spoiling, I can't say everything I'd like to, but what a tear-jerker. Let's just say that there was one specific word in there that gave me chills like no full-length movie ever has.

[365Duke]

Should we start another thread with "spoilers" so everyone can speak there mind, or have a mod change the title with Ozzie's permission?:confused:

[JasonEvans]

Should we start another thread with "spoilers" so everyone can speak there mind, or have a mod change the title with Ozzie's permission?:confused:

I'm confused-- after an episode has aired what is wrong with talking about that episode? There are no spoilers for an already-aired episode.

I thought last night was a somewhat weak episode -- not much happened except for Desmond flashing back adn forth between now and 8 years ago. I think the intent of the episode was to make it really clear to people who have not been paying much attention that time travel or time shifts or whatever you want to call it is a huge part of what is going on. It was sorta Lost's way of beating us over the head with something so the truly clueless will understand.

A few interesting things--

1) Are we supposed to think that Daniel Farraday did not know Desmond until after Des visited Daniel in the past? There were some real time-travel paradoxes introduced there. For example, Daniel presumably gets his job with the frieghter folks because of his knowledge of time rifts but it seems he only knows about time rifts because his future self told Des the key coordinates and then Des told the past Daniel the coordinates. But the only way the future Daniel knows the coordinates is because the past Daniel learned them from Des who got them from the future Daniel. Anyone following this?!?!? Help!!!

2) Daniel's "constant" is Des. Is it a problem then that Des is no longer on the island? If Daniel starts to freak our and needs to find the thing to ground him, he better get on the phone to Des on the freighter and hope the phone is working properly.

3) Is Fisher Stephens' character really dead? What?!?!? They introduce this strange Minkowski dude and then kill him off in a really anti-climatic way withing a 20 minute span. Why get a semi-famous actor to play him anyway? Something is bugging me about that.

4) I know the show does not do "answers" at this point but I kinda hate it when we get cut off from conversations that would have to happen. For example:


Daniel: "It'll be fine, so long as Frank flew on the bearings I gave him, everything will be fine."

Jack: "And what if he didn't."

Daniel: "Then there might be side-effects."

Fade to black

Of course, instead of a fade to black what would happen in real life would be Jack saying, "Side effects??!?! What are you talking about? What do you mean our perception of how long they have been gone may not match how long they have actually been gone?!?! How do you know this stuff?!?! (Pulls gun out and points it at Daniel) Tell me everything you know about this Island right now or I will shoot you in both knee caps and pull your fingernails out and let you bleed to death."

At least, that is how 99.9% of us would react to this conversation. On Lost, all we get is "cue dramatic music and fade to black"

--Jason "more later" Evans

[Duvall]

I'm confused-- after an episode has aired what is wrong with talking about that episode? There are no spoilers for an already-aired episode.

There are in a thread marked "no spoilers."



3) Is Fisher Stephens' character really dead? What?!?!? They introduce this strange Minkowski dude and then kill him off in a really anti-climatic way withing a 20 minute span. Why get a semi-famous actor to play him anyway? Something is bugging me about that.


He's a time-traveler on a show full of flashbacks. I think he'll show up again.

[365Duke]

JasonEvans Said


I'm confused-- after an episode has aired what is wrong with talking about that episode? There are no spoilers for an already-aired episode.

I know,the no spoilers in the title of the thread was what I was speaking to.


I thought last night was a somewhat weak episode

I thought so as well. I was kind of disappointed to tell the truth.


A few interesting things--

1) Are we supposed to think that Daniel Farraday did not know Desmond until after Des visited Daniel in the past? There were some real time-travel paradoxes introduced there. For example, Daniel presumably gets his job with the frieghter folks because of his knowledge of time rifts but it seems he only knows about time rifts because his future self told Des the key coordinates and then Des told the past Daniel the coordinates. But the only way the future Daniel knows the coordinates is because the past Daniel learned them from Des who got them from the future Daniel. Anyone following this?!?!? Help!!!

2) Daniel's "constant" is Des. Is it a problem then that Des is no longer on the island? If Daniel starts to freak our and needs to find the thing to ground him, he better get on the phone to Des on the freighter and hope the phone is working properly.

I thought the same thing, I just figured he had already corrected himself by talking to Des before the Helicopter took off. He did not know he was correcting himself, however, I may be wrong.


3) Is Fisher Stephens' character really dead? What?!?!? They introduce this strange Minkowski dude and then kill him off in a really anti-climatic way withing a 20 minute span. Why get a semi-famous actor to play him anyway? Something is bugging me about that.


Me too.

[MarineTwinsDad]

Without going into specifics (mainly because I am not privy, not frequenting Spoiler sites), did the previews from next week seem to indicate that Farraday and the hard-face chick will try and start up the magnetic thingi again? This isn't a spoiler simply because I have no idea. As I remember the "past" there was an explosion when the button wasn't pushed. But what did that mean? Would it be possible to start up the magnetic accumulation again?

And how does Ben fit into all this? If the three oddballs landed on the island to get Ben, how does that square with the magnetic properties of the island? At first I was thinking that perhaps Ben was able to do this time thing back and forth from the island to another world, but he does have all those passports - so he must have been able to get off the island.

And Penny's father: he won the auction for a log book for a ship that disappeared somewhere around where the island is located. So he's involved in all of this. After he gave Desmond the location for Penny, he left the water running, as if he knew this would cause the time shift again. I don't remember (and as mentioned above, don't frequent sites that talk about such things) his part in anything. But it's obvious that he does deep pockets, and must be part of the off-island or on-island struggles.

[riverside6]

Without going into specifics (mainly because I am not privy, not frequenting Spoiler sites), did the previews from next week seem to indicate that Farraday and the hard-face chick will try and start up the magnetic thingi again? This isn't a spoiler simply because I have no idea. As I remember the "past" there was an explosion when the button wasn't pushed. But what did that mean? Would it be possible to start up the magnetic accumulation again?

And how does Ben fit into all this? If the three oddballs landed on the island to get Ben, how does that square with the magnetic properties of the island? At first I was thinking that perhaps Ben was able to do this time thing back and forth from the island to another world, but he does have all those passports - so he must have been able to get off the island.

And Penny's father: he won the auction for a log book for a ship that disappeared somewhere around where the island is located. So he's involved in all of this. After he gave Desmond the location for Penny, he left the water running, as if he knew this would cause the time shift again. I don't remember (and as mentioned above, don't frequent sites that talk about such things) his part in anything. But it's obvious that he does deep pockets, and must be part of the off-island or on-island struggles.
keep in mind this video...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_gERdALb5vQ

In this video there are definitely two #15 rabbits, meaning there was more than just a mindshift happening.

Faraday's studies showed there was no way for the physical body to go back in time, so these are likely two different things.

[BlueDevilBaby]

And Penny's father: he won the auction for a log book for a ship that disappeared somewhere around where the island is located. So he's involved in all of this. After he gave Desmond the location for Penny, he left the water running, as if he knew this would cause the time shift again. I don't remember (and as mentioned above, don't frequent sites that talk about such things) his part in anything. But it's obvious that he does deep pockets, and must be part of the off-island or on-island struggles.

I thought that was very interesting. I wonder if the freighterites are working for him.

[365Duke]

And Penny's father: he won the auction for a log book for a ship that disappeared somewhere around where the island is located. So he's involved in all of this. After he gave Desmond the location for Penny, he left the water running, as if he knew this would cause the time shift again. I don't remember (and as mentioned above, don't frequent sites that talk about such things) his part in anything. But it's obvious that he does deep pockets, and must be part of the off-island or on-island struggles.


Also, how did anyone recover the book. The Black Rock is on the Island, the middle of it in fact. The book would have to be recovered from the ship right?

[DukeDevil]

1) Are we supposed to think that Daniel Farraday did not know Desmond until after Des visited Daniel in the past? There were some real time-travel paradoxes introduced there. For example, Daniel presumably gets his job with the frieghter folks because of his knowledge of time rifts but it seems he only knows about time rifts because his future self told Des the key coordinates and then Des told the past Daniel the coordinates. But the only way the future Daniel knows the coordinates is because the past Daniel learned them from Des who got them from the future Daniel. Anyone following this?!?!? Help!!!

My thought on this is the following.
1) daniel has memory problems and this is why he doesn't remember Des, either due to the radiation from his experiments or the island.
2)Daniel is an expert in the field already, but his trip to the Island allows him to figure out the exact settings from the Island and allow him to get a perfectly successful experiment with his rat, rather than just getting some promising data. Likely his mathematical genius allows is why they brought him along, figuring he'd be able to work out the Islands oscillation/frequency/etc.


2) Daniel's "constant" is Des. Is it a problem then that Des is no longer on the island? If Daniel starts to freak our and needs to find the thing to ground him, he better get on the phone to Des on the freighter and hope the phone is working properly.
I think he chose Des as a constant because you have to select someone you knew in the past and present, and the only person he knew that he would know for sure in both times, as well as be in contact with in both times, was Desmond.

[DukeDevil]

Also, how did anyone recover the book. The Black Rock is on the Island, the middle of it in fact. The book would have to be recovered from the ship right?

Pirates raided the black rock before it was lost on the island

[DukeDevil]

keep in mind this video...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_gERdALb5vQ

In this video there are definitely two #15 rabbits, meaning there was more than just a mindshift happening.

Faraday's studies showed there was no way for the physical body to go back in time, so these are likely two different things.

My thought on the two rabbits is, as you said, something to do with more than just a mindshift. There was some movie at some point where if you met yourself in time travel, you can't come in physical contact with yourself because it was a paradox it cause some sort of matter/antimatter type mixing explosion, so that may be why the guy in the video was adamant they they don't come in contact with each other.


An additional thought, I believe that diagram someone once had up of the island showing how the strongest magnetic waves were at ocean level, with weaker and weaker ones the higher the altitude you got, and almost no waves below the ocean level at the level of the submarine. So perhaps that's why the guys that tried to get on the island using a boat got thoroughly messed up, which the guys in the chopper less so, and the guys in the submarine (like Ben presumably gets on and off the island) don't get messed up at all.

[riverside6]

An additional thought, I believe that diagram someone once had up of the island showing how the strongest magnetic waves were at ocean level, with weaker and weaker ones the higher the altitude you got, and almost no waves below the ocean level at the level of the submarine. So perhaps that's why the guys that tried to get on the island using a boat got thoroughly messed up, which the guys in the chopper less so, and the guys in the submarine (like Ben presumably gets on and off the island) don't get messed up at all.


Wow, that really makes sense...with the plane being even higher causing even less (if no) problems. This doesn't bode well for Michael & Walt unless the path out that Ben gave them removes them from any harm. Keep in mind that the path Ben gave Michael and Walt differed from Faraday's to the helicopter pilot slightly, LostPedia has this note.

[JasonEvans]

I continue to maintain that the sub is not used for getting on and off the island. There is a reason they drugged Juliet and woke her up once the sub was docked on the island. The sub is a ruse. Ben gets too and from the island much more quickly than he would with a sub.

I also continue to maintain that the sub is not destroyed. Locke sunk it in the bay and then blew up the end of the dock. Recall that Locke was dripped wet when we saw him just before the sub supposedly blew up. I think he submerged the sub to hide it and then got out of it (which is why he was wet) and set the explosives to blow up and simulate the destruction of the sub.

Other stuff -- important note on the Black Rock book. IIRC, it was not a captain's log/diary, it was a ledger. The book is just a list of what the Black Rock was carrying when it disappeared (actually shortly before it disappeared, because the ledger was taken by pirates). This leads me to a new theory Jason has formed.

I think Charles Whitmore wanted that ledger because he knew the Black Rock was carrying something -- some type of elements perhaps -- that attracted it to the island. I think that once Charles Whitore found this out, he put that same "attractive element" into Desmond's boat (which he had Libby give to Desmond) and that same "element" was also found in large supply on Oceanic Flight 815. At least, that is a theory I have been turning over in my head lately.

--Jason "this is fun!" Evans

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Should we start another thread with "spoilers" so everyone can speak there mind, or have a mod change the title with Ozzie's permission?:confused:

Change the title by all means. BTW, I noted "non specific spoilers", not no spoilers. But since I posted just after the show ended east coast time, I didn't want someone who was either on the left coast or planned to watch on DVR/Tivo today to read the thread and be "spoiled". By this afternoon, if someone hasn't watched the show and reads the thread, they want to be spoiled!

On another point, I think Locke was wet when he blew up the sub because he put the charge on the hull below the water level, not because he submerged the sub to fake everyone out.

[Jmac1970]

I commented to my wife last night that when the book was being auctioned off that it was currently in the collection of a Mr. Hanso. IIRC, that is the same man who founded the Dharma initiative. If that is the case then that is another way that the book could have been discovered on the island and subsequently taken off.

Does anyone else remember this or am I also caught in some time loop?

[pfrduke]

I commented to my wife last night that when the book was being auctioned off that it was currently in the collection of a Mr. Hanso. IIRC, that is the same man who founded the Dharma initiative. If that is the case then that is another way that the book could have been discovered on the island and subsequently taken off.

Does anyone else remember this or am I also caught in some time loop?

I noticed that too. You are not mentally displaced.

[johnb]

A few thoughts about earlier comments:

re Penny's dad and the water: do you think the water would cause it? or was he just inattentive? it did seem odd when he walked out, but i thought he was just being entitled

Re time travel: Fate doesn't allow you to change History (hence Charlie's inevitable death), but it does apparently allow for small blips in history that may need to get reconciled by the time you reach the date that you went backward. I don't know if Fate would allow you to buy Qualcomm in 1996, however, and then short the tech sector a few years later. This would provide Ben with some walk-around cash. God only know what happens when you get to the date of the flight. do you get on flight 815? and if so, are you careful to bring along your favorite nicknacks? or do you just die?

Re. Desmond: didn't he get a lot of electromagnetic exposure when the station blew up?

While I was affected by the intensity of Des' love for Penny, the need for a stable object seemed a bit thin. If Penny hated him in '96, why would she be on the video in 2001/2004 looking for him at the moment that Charlie was calling? Makes me wonder about her; pennies do have two sides, and she is her father's daughter.

And I agree, how do you cast the show's most recognizable actor into a cool/quirky role and then kill him off? I agree that he must play a role beyond demonstrating Desmond's fate if the call to Penny ends with an answering machine beep.

[mr. synellinden]

Ben gets too and from the island much more quickly than he would with a sub.


That is assuming that time is normal on the island, which we know it is not.

He may not need the sub to get on and off the island but the time it would take is not proof of that.

[2535Miles]

Ben gets too and from the island much more quickly than he would with a sub.

I agree with Jason. Remember Anthony Cooper's (Locke's father/the man who conned Sawyers mom) sudden emergence on the island? How did he get there so fast?