Speaking of Cars...Matrix/Vibe

[Windsor]

Anyone on the list have a Toyota Matrix or the Pontiac clone the Vibe?

I currently have a full sized van (aka rolling dog crate) which I love because I have tons of room for all the stuff I take to dog shows BUT it gets gallons to the mile not miles to the gallon ;) and is approaching the end of its useful life. I've looked at the Matrix/Vibe and since only one dog is actively showing there will be enough space, the fuel economy is decent (compared to my van it is off the charts!). Wondering if anyone on the list had either of these (or a similar wagon-esque vehicle) and what they thought of it.

[hurleyfor3]

Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself.

[Windsor]

Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself.


I took the red pill

[Dukiedevil]

Anyone on the list have a Toyota Matrix or the Pontiac clone the Vibe?

I currently have a full sized van (aka rolling dog crate) which I love because I have tons of room for all the stuff I take to dog shows BUT it gets gallons to the mile not miles to the gallon ;) and is approaching the end of its useful life. I've looked at the Matrix/Vibe and since only one dog is actively showing there will be enough space, the fuel economy is decent (compared to my van it is off the charts!). Wondering if anyone on the list had either of these (or a similar wagon-esque vehicle) and what they thought of it.

I strongly recommend the Mazda 3 hatchback. Very reliable car that is fun to drive. Several of the auto reviewers have named it best in class (edmunds.com for one). Couldn't be happier with mine.

[hc5duke]

I strongly recommend the Mazda 3 hatchback. Very reliable car that is fun to drive. Several of the auto reviewers have named it best in class (edmunds.com for one). Couldn't be happier with mine.

Or its cousin Ford Focus hatchback. Cheaper, and I'm guessing more fuel-efficient. They're basically the same car

[xenic]

I've ridden in a Matrix a few times... it's an ok car. feels like you're sitting very upright and kind of high for a car. Not sure if it is an option or standard, but it has a couple of AC outlets in it which is pretty cool. I don't particularly care for the way it looks.

[DevilAlumna]

I've ridden in a Vibe before, and liked it. I mean, it's a Pontiac - maker of the Aztec - so it's suspect in that regard, but otherwise, it seemed decently appointed, peppy, and otherwise a perfectly mediocre american-made auto.

I'd also suggest checking out a Volvo XC-70 (likely used, they're pricey!), a Subaru Outback (aka "state car of Colorado"), and the Mazda CX-7.

[hc5duke]

I've ridden in a Vibe before, and liked it. I mean, it's a Pontiac - maker of the Aztec - so it's suspect in that regard, but otherwise, it seemed decently appointed, peppy, and otherwise a perfectly mediocre american-made auto.

I'd also suggest checking out a Volvo XC-70 (likely used, they're pricey!), a Subaru Outback (aka "state car of Colorado"), and the Mazda CX-7.

I was actually about to mention the CX-7, but the fuel efficiency isn't that great (compared with the Matrix/Vibe), and it costs about 5-10k more than the other cars mentioned. I've been told it's a really nice car/suv (CUV?) though.

[captmojo]

I suggest you also include a view of the Dodge Caliber.

[Dukiedevil]

Also forgot to mention the Volkswagon GTI. My dad had one and loved it

[Dukiedevil]

I was actually about to mention the CX-7, but the fuel efficiency isn't that great (compared with the Matrix/Vibe), and it costs about 5-10k more than the other cars mentioned. I've been told it's a really nice car/suv (CUV?) though.

The CX-7 also requires high grade gasoline

[hc5duke]

I suggest you also include a view of the Dodge Caliber.

I drove this as a rental for a month when I first moved to California, and absolutely hated it. The only positive for me was that it's roomy, and I was able to fit a small kitchen table in the back. But IIRC the front passenger side headrest blocked about 2/3 of the passenger side rear window unless you folded the seat, and visibility otherwise wasn't too great either. Plastic parts came off random places, though that might be from being a rental.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I mean, it's a Pontiac - maker of the Aztec - so it's suspect in that regard, but otherwise, it seemed decently appointed, peppy, and otherwise a perfectly mediocre american-made auto.


Hey wait a minute! We liked our Aztec, at least until the electrical system died and we shot it. OK, we traded it, but I wasn't about to fix it.

And I absolutely loved my 1972 Pontiac GTO and 1974 Grand Prix SJ.

[DevilAlumna]

Hey wait a minute! We liked our Aztec, at least until the electrical system died and we shot it. OK, we traded it, but I wasn't about to fix it.

And I absolutely loved my 1972 Pontiac GTO and 1974 Grand Prix SJ.

Well, actually, this car nostalgia has me fondly remembering my mom's big honkin', red-and-wood-paneled late 70's Pontiac station wagon. My brother and I alternated between fighting over who got to sit in the front seat (no silly car seat or age rules back then!) or in the way-way-back.

That was one great kid-dog-carpool-grocery haulin' beast; does anyone make anything like that anymore? (And don't dare mention that manwagon from Dodge, that thing is hideous.)

[dukepsy1963]

Buying a car remains a personal thing, but whatever you do, do your homework.

Look at all the auto mags and consumer reports for evaluations of the vehicles you are considering.

IMO (and what I have done with great success, I might add) Consider reliability, comfort/ride, ergonomics, mileage, prices, looks, etc. Roughly in that order.

The track record of Pontiac in general (or any American car) is not as good as most Japanese/foreign cars. Although the Vista looks pretty good in Consumer Reports, I personally would not buy a Vista because it is a modern-day GM car. My own bias. I hate the "cheap" and plastic feeling of American cars.

But, above all.... Test drive all of the vehicles you are considering. This is absolutely essential. You will be surprised as to how this cuts some cars out of the equation.

And don't forget to do your homework on the price before you go into the dealership. Give them as little profit as you can!!!! You are in control!!

And, generally speaking, don't trade in your old car. You can make much more selling it yourself. (but have it detailed by a professional...you'll more than make up the cost!)



One more thing. The high test gas thing is a ruse. Middle grade works just fine in cars that claim to require high test. Don't be taken in by this!!!

[Windsor]

Thanks for all the input...I have a few more options to consider now. The first priority is being able to get my crate and dog show stuff in the back (yes, the crate comes to the dealer with me...yes, they look at you funny).

My daughter's car is a Focus hatchback and it isn't quite big enough...but it is several years old and the newer ones seem to be slightly roomier...I also see they have a wagon which looks long enough, but I'm not sure about the height.

The Volvo is probably wonderful but then I would have to do something I've never done...make a car payment (or wait a little bit before I bought) I know that it is practically un-American...but I've paid cash money for every car I've ever owned. Shame on me:D

[Lavabe]

One more thing. The high test gas thing is a ruse. Middle grade works just fine in cars that claim to require high test. Don't be taken in by this!!!

Any difference between mid-grade & regular?
Thanks,
Lavabe

[merry]

I rented a Vibe for a week once and liked it quite a bit. When we needed a new car back in April I looked first at the Matrix. Despite the attractively low price compared to the other stuff I was looking at I just couldn't get past the fact that the fuel mileage rating was about the same as what I was getting with my 7 year old significantly larger Subaru Outback...it seemed like a smaller and newer car should get better mileage.

I ended up with a Prius which I love, but that might not work with you for the dog thing. The Prius is a lot bigger inside than I thought and there's a decent amount of hauling space, even more if you put the back seat down, but it obviously can't compare with a small wagon in terms of hauling stuff/animals around!

[dukepsy1963]

We have a Subaru Forester with a turbo. While they recommend high test, we use mid level instead with no pinging or problems. However, if you drop down to regular, it pings a tiny bit. The two octane difference between 89 and 87 makes a difference (at least on the Subaru).

The key is to check for pinging. Many cars can run on regular just fine...with no serious effects. Oil companies and car makers have long encouraged our dependence on the high-price spread. And why shouldn't they, they love to make money hand over fist!


BTW I have restored cars, taken courses on engine/car repair, etc., done highway safety research, and even taught pursuit driving to cops in my time.

[Windsor]

Buying a car remains a personal thing, but whatever you do, do your homework.

Look at all the auto mags and consumer reports for evaluations of the vehicles you are considering.

IMO (and what I have done with great success, I might add) Consider reliability, comfort/ride, ergonomics, mileage, prices, looks, etc. Roughly in that order.

The track record of Pontiac in general (or any American car) is not as good as most Japanese/foreign cars. Although the Vista looks pretty good in Consumer Reports, I personally would not buy a Vista because it is a modern-day GM car. My own bias. I hate the "cheap" and plastic feeling of American cars.

But, above all.... Test drive all of the vehicles you are considering. This is absolutely essential. You will be surprised as to how this cuts some cars out of the equation.

And don't forget to do your homework on the price before you go into the dealership. Give them as little profit as you can!!!! You are in control!!

And, generally speaking, don't trade in your old car. You can make much more selling it yourself. (but have it detailed by a professional...you'll more than make up the cost!).
One more thing. The high test gas thing is a ruse. Middle grade works just fine in cars that claim to require high test. Don't be taken in by this!!!

Excellent advice all around. Most of which I have always follwed. I always test drive as I'm built funny (short body long legs) and some cars I just can't drive without feeling awkward.

I've sold all of my cars myself, and the professional detailing is always worth the money. In my single days I enlisted the assistance of male friends (he worked for a 12 pack) as I was never comfortable having strangers at my home when I lived alone.

My husband is Mr. Car Buyer. Salesman hate him, but we've gotten unbelievable deals (one car we purchased was totalled 60 days later by a hit and run driver...not my fault...our insurance company paid us $2700 more for the car than we had paid) I don't buy new, and have had very good luck with used cars for years. We deal in 'out the door numbers' because I really don't give a rats posterior about their dealer prep and add ons. Usually I find the car I want then send in the husband. He gives them and out the door (and well researched) number. They can take it or leave it. Usually they leave it until they realize he's serious. The have chased him through the parking lot on his way out more than once:)

Regarding the Matrix/Vibe...the Toyota dealer told me there is NO difference between the two except the 'labels'. I have found that the Toyota holds its value better (not surprising) which is a double edge sword...I'll pay more up front but gain more on the back end

I did NOT know the whole premium gas was a ruse. That is very good information to have.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Any difference between mid-grade & regular?
Thanks,
Lavabe

Yeah, the octane rating: 87 vs. 89 typically. Octane is a fuel's resistance to knocking. Knocking occurs when the fuel literally explodes instead of burning smoothly. It explodes because of the pressure (compression) on the fuel/air mixture. The peak temperature is higher but the energy released by the fuel is not as great, hence you damage the engine (long term affects) and loose performance (acceleration and gas mileage).

Most cars in the last 10 or 15 years have computers with knock sensors, and these automatically adjust the ignition spark timing to eliminate knock and maximize performance. Higher octane fuels can tolerate higher compression before igniting. Most cars won't have a noticeable degradation of performance using "regular", even if the car's manual recommends higher octane levels. A dirty engine will tend to knock more easily. If this suddenly appears after years of using regular, get your fuel injectors cleaned and it should disappear. We discussed this several years ago when I had the problem with my Maxima, which started knocking on regular after 90,000 miles . Once the system got a good cleaning with chemicals, the knock disappeared for the next 90,000 (when I traded it for the transmission problem previously discussed.)

On a note to Windsor, take a look at the Hyundai Santa Fe and other hatchbacks they offer. I love my Sonata and you can't beat the price, reliability, warranty and what you get for the money.

[dukepsy1963]

Most cars in the last 10 or 15 years have computers with knock sensors, and these automatically adjust the ignition spark timing to eliminate knock and maximize performance. Higher octane fuels can tolerate higher compression before igniting. Most cars won't have a noticeable degradation of performance using "regular", even if the car's manual recommends higher octane levels. A dirty engine will tend to knock more easily. If this suddenly appears after years of using regular, get your fuel injectors cleaned and it should disappear. .

Ozzie is right on the money. It's cheaper to clean your injectors over the years than the cost of using high test.

Happy Motoring!!!!

[pamtar]

I'd definitely look at a Volvo V70 or a Subaru Outback or Forrester. We have a V70 T5 and a 4-cyl. Outback. Both are great cars yet the Volvo gets slightly better mileage because it doesn't have the all wheel drive. However, the standard V70 gets even better mileage.

And, contrary to your previous statement (car payment) you can get a used Volvo at a fairly reasonable price. A 2003ish V70 with around 60k miles only cost about $12,000. Plus, all models have all the bells and whistles and they last forever. Only downside to both is the maintenance costs.

[Windsor]

And, contrary to your previous statement (car payment) you can get a used Volvo at a fairly reasonable price. A 2003ish V70 with around 60k miles only cost about $12,000. Plus, all models have all the bells and whistles and they last forever. Only downside to both is the maintenance costs.


I hadn't even looked at a Volvo because I assumed (shame on me) that they were substanitaly more expensive...searched online locally and there are several well within my price range, so I will definitley give it a long look.

Thanks!

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I'd definitely look at a Volvo V70 or a Subaru Outback or Forrester.

You're in Florida, so you probably don't need the Subaru all wheel drive. My daughter has a 2005 Forrester and loves it. Very reliable through the first 60,000.

Be aware that with the all wheel drive, if you have to replace one tire with more than a little wear on it, you have to replace all four. Having different tire heights (yes, even just a little) can wear the all wheel drive differentials, which will cost a lot more than replacing four tires when you only need one. I didn't believe it when the tire store told her this, so I called the Subaru service manager and had a lengthy discussion with him. He convinced me to replace all four tires.

A 2 wheel drive Honda CR-V or Toyota Rav4 might be just what you are looking for.

[captmojo]

You're in Florida, so you probably don't need the Subaru all wheel drive. My daughter has a 2005 Forrester and loves it. Very reliable through the first 60,000.

Be aware that with the all wheel drive, if you have to replace one tire with more than a little wear on it, you have to replace all four. Having different tire heights (yes, even just a little) can wear the all wheel drive differentials, which will cost a lot more than replacing four tires when you only need one. I didn't believe it when the tire store told her this, so I called the Subaru service manager and had a lengthy discussion with him. He convinced me to replace all four tires.

A 2 wheel drive Honda CR-V or Toyota Rav4 might be just what you are looking for.

Also, you'll get a savings on your insurance with a two-wheel drive.

Back on gasoline, a lot of people don't take under consideration the point that 93 octane is not a big seller, even more so due to it's current price. Therefore, it sits in the station's tanks and has a chance to collect water into it from condensation within.