View Full Version : The Goose is loose!
hurleyfor3
01-09-2008, 10:49 AM
Congratulations to Goose Gossage, sole member of the Hall of Fame class of 2009!
I thought Jim Rice would finally make it this year, partially out of steroids backlash. As a Yankees fan growing up I never thought I'd be rooting for him to make it, but for several years he was as feared as any hitter in the league. He has one more year of eligibility, thought, and the steroids story isn't finished.
BlueDevilBaby
01-09-2008, 11:06 AM
Goose said this morning that he didn't like facing Rice. He scared me through the TV.
TillyGalore
01-09-2008, 11:25 AM
Goose said this morning that he didn't like facing Rice. He scared me through the TV.
Too bad Rice wasn't elected with Goose. :(
The clearest memory I have of Jim Rice is from a game in which a young child was hit by a foul ball. Jim went into the stands picked up the bloodied child and carried him/her to the dugout to be treated. That was classy! Don't think I've heard of another ball player doing that. Not saying it hasn't happened, just don't recall hearing or reading about it.
SlimSlowSlider
01-09-2008, 11:33 AM
I was at that game. I was sitting on the third base side. Almost immediately after the kid got hit by a rocket foul ball (the kid was sitting first row next to the dugout), Rice went and picked up the kid, and brought him through the dugout to the ambulance that is parked behind the dugout. (Fenway is very antiquated. Hard to explain.) Rice was not the most likeable player when he played (he went to the Eddie Murray school of press relations), but he was definitely a very good player and, IMO, a borderline Hall of Famer. (And I will give him the benefit of the doubt, given that Perez made it.)
captmojo
01-11-2008, 06:36 PM
Goose was the third most intimidating pitcher I ever saw.
1st----Drysdale
2nd----Gibson
Jim3k
01-12-2008, 03:25 AM
Goose was the third most intimidating pitcher I ever saw.
1st----Drysdale
2nd----Gibson
Dave Stewart?
Indoor66
01-12-2008, 09:43 AM
Dave Stewart?
Ebby LaRouche?
captmojo
01-12-2008, 11:40 AM
Dave Stewart?
Eurythmics?
Annie Lennox is very intimidating.
Olympic Fan
01-12-2008, 12:46 PM
I think both Gossage (who finally got in after a long wait) and Jim Rice (who is still waiting) were both hurt by changes in the game AFTER they were in their prime.
Gossage came along at a time when relief pitching was changing -- evolving into the modern system of specialization -- the one inning "closer" supported by the eighth-inning "setup man" and maybe a seventh-inning "middle-relievier" -- plus the lefty specialist whose role is solely to get a tough lefthanded hitter out.
Gossage was essentially all of those in one -- he was his own setup man. Instead of coming in (like most modern closers) to start the ninth inning with the bases empty, he often appeared when his team was in a jam in the seventh and eighth inning. He didn't have quite as many game appearaces as modern closers and nowhere near as many "saves", but he pitched more innings in a season than any big-time closer and, in the option of stat-geek Bill James, was the most valuable reliver in history.
I guess what you have to ask yourself is how much more valuable is a save when the guy comes in in the seventh with the bases loaded and one out, pitches out of that jam without giving up a run, then adds a scoreless eighth and ninth .. compared to a guy who comes in to protect a one or two run lead to start the ninth and throws a scoreless inning?
Because Gossage didn't have the overpowering save totals that some of the modern guys had, it was easier for voters -- especially younger voters -- to underappreciate his value.
Rice is a victim of the modern power explosion -- whether that's due to steroids, weight-training, smaller ballparks, lively ball or whatever, there's no doubt that power numbers have exploded. He won three home run titles, but with totals that would shrink to insignificance in today's game -- he twice led the league with 39 home runs!
In the contest of his times, he was as effective a power hitter as, say, Ryan Howard today, but Howard will be remembered for his 56 HR season, while Rice's best of 46 home runs is diminished by comparison.
But I just checked on baseball reference -- between 1965 and 1995, baseball produced just two 50 home run seasons. In the 12 years since, it's been done 19 times by 10 different players.
The guys who came before the power explosion are suffering in comparison -- even Ryne Sandberg, who was the most productive power-hitting middle infielder since Banks, didn't look as good to the voters when he came up as he did to his contemporaries. Guys like Dale Murphy, George Foster and Don Mattingly don't have a chance.
FWIW: If you read the stat-geeks such as James and Rob Neyer (as I do), they'll tell you that the great crime in this vote was not the exclusion of Rice, but the low vote total for Tim Raines, the second-greatest leadoff hitter in history (behind only Rickey Henderson).
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