Windows Home Server?

[Karl Beem]

Does anyone have any experience with it? I just ordered the free trial.

[billybreen]

Does anyone have any experience with it? I just ordered the free trial.

I just ordered a 500 GB HP MediaSmart, a hardware appliance loaded with WHS. I've been looking at different NAS-like solutions for a while, and narrowly picked WHS over a Drobo. It should get here Friday, and I'll let you know how it works.

Man, I hope DA is reading :)

[DevilAlumna]

I am reading :), we just started running it last month, and it's great.

The ease of doing backups is so nice; it adds a lot to peace of mind. How many times have you said to yourself, I really should back up those photos/videos/docs, and didn't? With Home Server, it backs up every computer on the network nightly, by default. (And it's smart about it -- if you have the same photo on more than one machine, it just saves one copy, but knows it went on both machines.)

The other features -- remote desktop via web; add-ins like quick photo galleries; private and shared web-accessible folders -- are surprisingly useful.

Our box now has a terabyte of storage (have I mentioned my husband is a hardware geek?), and lives under our stairs. No need to have it physically accessible, as it's built for remote access.

*EDIT* I've just been told we have 5TB of storage, across 8 drives. WHS has a file/storage load-balancing mechanism built in.

[Karl Beem]

I'm building a Video Server that will eventually contain 6 SATA drives. I'm actually going to use it as the backup destination for all my other machines. Do you have any utilities that refuse to install on WHS?

[DevilAlumna]

From the hubby:

If you're just using it as a file server, there should be no issues whatsoever.

Otherwise, WHS is based off of Windows Server 2003, so any applications or services you want to install would have to be WS2003 compatible.

[Karl Beem]

From the hubby:

If you're just using it as a file server, there should be no issues whatsoever.

Otherwise, WHS is based off of Windows Server 2003, so any applications or services you want to install would have to be WS2003 compatible.

That's what I was afraid of! I recall the Powerquest DriveImage wouldn't install on 2003. I'm not sure of the Acronis products that I use now. Granted I can use the local TrueImage to create backup files and then simply use the Server to backup the backups.

[billybreen]

I am reading :), we just started running it last month, and it's great.

The ease of doing backups is so nice; it adds a lot to peace of mind. How many times have you said to yourself, I really should back up those photos/videos/docs, and didn't? With Home Server, it backs up every computer on the network nightly, by default. (And it's smart about it -- if you have the same photo on more than one machine, it just saves one copy, but knows it went on both machines.)

I'm using it to replace a very ad hoc system of rsyncing data between each of my machines, using the excess capacity of each to keep important stuff spread around. It was fairly labor intensive and hasn't scaled well, so I want a centralized dedicated solution that can seamlessly grow as I add disks.

My only concern with the automatic backup thing is that (I assume) it's very Windows-dependent. Only 1 of the 3 machines I have on my desk is a Windows box, and the majority of my files are on Linux, so I suspect it will take a bit more work for me to bend WHS backups to my will.

[DevilAlumna]

Here's the WHS team's public blog:

http://blogs.technet.com/homeserver/

It's got some good reference links, including add-in sites and enthusiast forums. You might be able to find answers to your more specific questions in places like that.

[YmoBeThere]

BB,

Are you using the good ole folks at Comcastic for you internet service?

YBT

[billybreen]

BB,

Are you using the good ole folks at Comcastic for you internet service?

YBT

Nope, I went FIOS last August. Absolutely loving it.

[Karl Beem]

Here's the WHS team's public blog:

http://blogs.technet.com/homeserver/

It's got some good reference links, including add-in sites and enthusiast forums. You might be able to find answers to your more specific questions in places like that.

I've been reading various sources and am getting discouraged. I like the idea that WHS doesn't do drives for itself; however, will it recognize the drives of the client machines? I do not want WHS to backup the My Videos of my various clients, etc. Also all my clients have the same user account.

[alteran]

I just ordered a 500 GB HP MediaSmart, a hardware appliance loaded with WHS. I've been looking at different NAS-like solutions for a while, and narrowly picked WHS over a Drobo. It should get here Friday, and I'll let you know how it works.

Man, I hope DA is reading :)

Why'd you end up going with the HP MediaSmart?

[billybreen]

Why'd you end up going with the HP MediaSmart?

For a NAS device, it's fairly cheap, and it expands better than something like Drobo. It's also the only WHS appliance I could find available currently (the Intel one is nowhere to be seen), so it sorta won by default.

[Exiled_Devil]

I read about WHS causing files to be corrupted this past week - anyone have any problems with this?

I am using foldershare to sync important documents across machines (I have 5 right now) and have been looking to centralize some data - my music is upstairs and my PVR is downstairs, and I'd love to have both available across the network. Of course, networking my whole house would be a good first start. I have been ad hoc-ing that for a long time.

I feel lucky - I am about 2 years away from moving into a new house, and I am going to integrate the network into the house. That's when I plan to purchase (or build) a home server. Hopefully be then the market will be a little more diverse.


Exiled

Exiled

[YmoBeThere]

Nope, I went FIOS last August. Absolutely loving it.


It hasn't made it all the way to my place yet...

[Karl Beem]

Nope, I went FIOS last August. Absolutely loving it.

What's so great about it? Comcast is pretty fast here.

[billybreen]

What's so great about it? Comcast is pretty fast here.

As I told Comcast during my exit interview, Internet speeds are 33% faster (that's just downstream, upstream is 3x what I was getting from Comcast) than the best Comcast has to offer, I get 10 more HD channels, and it costs me $40 less per month.

My experience on Comcast was better than most. I was pulling close to 15MB/s. Most people in the Boston area are lucky to get 10. On FIOS, I always get over 20MB/s down. And the 4MB/s up is much better than the 1MB/s I got on Comcast.

[alteran]

For a NAS device, it's fairly cheap, and it expands better than something like Drobo. It's also the only WHS appliance I could find available currently (the Intel one is nowhere to be seen), so it sorta won by default.

Thanks for the input.

I have a mixed Mac/Windows network and I have a backup system roughly equivalent to the one you mentioned (I couldn't get rsync working properly between Mac and PC so went with batch jobs-- oh, the humiliation).

Drobo explicitly mentions OSX so I assume there's kludge-free Windows/Mac connectivity. My primary concern is the Macs, because that's where the family photos/videos are.

If you get a chance, let us know how it works out-- I agree that the price is right for a turnkey kind of solution.

[Karl Beem]

As I told Comcast during my exit interview, Internet speeds are 33% faster (that's just downstream, upstream is 3x what I was getting from Comcast) than the best Comcast has to offer, I get 10 more HD channels, and it costs me $40 less per month.

My experience on Comcast was better than most. I was pulling close to 15MB/s. Most people in the Boston area are lucky to get 10. On FIOS, I always get over 20MB/s down. And the 4MB/s up is much better than the 1MB/s I got on Comcast.

Presumably your MBps should be Mbps? That's still fabulous. I just tested mine twice, both gave about 4Mbps down and 0.4 Mbps up. These are the fastest results I've ever gotten.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

As I told Comcast during my exit interview, Internet speeds are 33% faster (that's just downstream, upstream is 3x what I was getting from Comcast) than the best Comcast has to offer, I get 10 more HD channels, and it costs me $40 less per month.

My experience on Comcast was better than most. I was pulling close to 15MB/s. Most people in the Boston area are lucky to get 10. On FIOS, I always get over 20MB/s down. And the 4MB/s up is much better than the 1MB/s I got on Comcast.

And that's only with the 20/5 tier speeds. VZ also has a symmetric upload/download tier at 20/20 (15/15 in some areas).

YBT, what area in Boston do you live? The FiOS buildout has been going well in MA although apartments and condos (the more urban areas) are a little trickier.

[billybreen]

Presumably your MBps should be Mbps? That's still fabulous. I just tested mine twice, both gave about 4Mbps down and 0.4 Mbps up. These are the fastest results I've ever gotten.

Yeah, I always screw that up. Fortunately, I'm not in the internet performance business. Oh wait, I am. ;)

[billybreen]

And that's only with the 20/5 tier speeds. VZ also has a symmetric upload/download tier at 20/20 (15/15 in some areas).

YBT, what area in Boston do you live? The FiOS buildout has been going well in MA although apartments and condos (the more urban areas) are a little trickier.

Yeah, I think I can get 20/20 in my area now. I need to call about that. Not that I really need 20 up, it would just be cool to say I have it.

[billybreen]

Thanks for the input.

I have a mixed Mac/Windows network and I have a backup system roughly equivalent to the one you mentioned (I couldn't get rsync working properly between Mac and PC so went with batch jobs-- oh, the humiliation).

Drobo explicitly mentions OSX so I assume there's kludge-free Windows/Mac connectivity. My primary concern is the Macs, because that's where the family photos/videos are.

If you get a chance, let us know how it works out-- I agree that the price is right for a turnkey kind of solution.

The problem with Drobo is that you have to pick Windows or Mac, as far as I can tell. It's a USB interface, rather than ethernet, so it's either hooked up to your PC or your Mac. So, to backup both, you need to do something involving network shares where all of the data lives on (or is at least mirrored to) one of the systems and is backed up from there to the Drobo.

Pretty much the same thing I'll be forced to do with my Linux / Mac / PC home network, so there was no advantage to Drobo over WHS.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

Yeah, I think I can get 20/20 in my area now. I need to call about that. Not that I really need 20 up, it would just be cool to say I have it.

NE, NY and NJ got 20/20 in mid November, if I recall correctly. I believe it's around $65/mo, but I'd check the web.

You can also go to FiOS 50M/20M if you like (for a bit more money).

[billybreen]

Update: Consumer Reports confirms, FIOS rocks ("http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080110-fios-tops-satisfaction-survey-worth-moving-for.html).

[Exiled_Devil]

Update: Consumer Reports confirms, FIOS rocks ("http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080110-fios-tops-satisfaction-survey-worth-moving-for.html).

Tried your link- it has some problems

And I'm jealous... no FI0S for me

[billybreen]

Tried your link- it has some problems

And I'm jealous... no FI0S for me

Ugh, I butchered it. Rookie mistake, and I'm not getting an edit box for that post. Oh well, trying again (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080110-fios-tops-satisfaction-survey-worth-moving-for.html).

[OZZIE4DUKE]

And I'm jealous... no FI0S for me

I can't get it either :mad:

[billybreen]

I can't get it either :mad:

Yeah, it doesn't surprise me that some people are considering availability as a factor when moving. It would be a major factor for me.

[Karl Beem]

Comcast to up cable speeds tenfold this year (http://techreport.com/discussions.x/13895)

[billybreen]

Comcast to up cable speeds tenfold this year (http://techreport.com/discussions.x/13895)

Competition is great. No way Comcast is moving this fast without the threat of FIOS. As a FIOS user, I'm excited about this news as the excess capacity and higher theoretical bandwidth of fiber means that Verizon can fairly easily match and exceed Comcast's bump.

Bring it on, Comcast. I want my 200mbps FIOS package!

[YmoBeThere]

Real quick, back to Windows Home Server. Do you have it yet and if so how is it working?

I can probably get my hands on a copy cheap(great to have relatives working for the company) and have a spare computer with a couple 250 GB drives lying around. I'm trying to figure out if it makes sense to set it up. Okay, I also like to build things just to get them to work...I really have wanted to get in to muscle and pony cars but figured computers were a cheaper habit.

[Karl Beem]

Real quick, back to Windows Home Server. Do you have it yet and if so how is it working?

I can probably get my hands on a copy cheap(great to have relatives working for the company) and have a spare computer with a couple 250 GB drives lying around. I'm trying to figure out if it makes sense to set it up. Okay, I also like to build things just to get them to work...I really have wanted to get in to muscle and pony cars but figured computers were a cheaper habit.

I'm still waiting for the trial.

[billybreen]

I've been playing with it for a little over a week. Will post a review later when I get home.

[billybreen]

For starters, I hope my conduct here as the resident Apple lover and Unix nerd doesn't immediately disqualify my review. While I often prefer competing products over those created by Microsoft, I give credit where it's due (I love my Xbox 360). If I have criticisms, I don't think they are a knee jerk anti-Microsoft bias. With that said, Windows Home Server at this point is a competent but somewhat unpolished product.

I purchased the HP MediaSmart WHS box, the 500GB version rather than going the OEM route. It's a nice piece of hardware: a surprisingly small black tower with 4 drive bays (one of which is taken by the 500GB disk), as well as 2 USB and 1 eSata ports in the back. Mirroring is not possible with only one disk, so I added another 750GB internal disk. That process was seamless and fun, with the software making it very simple to add the new storage to the existing pool. Thumbs up there.

There are essentially two ways to use the WHS system for remote storage, both of which are useful and easy to access. The first, only available for Windows clients, is as an automatic backup system. You install a small client application on your Windows desktop which checks in with the WHS machine each night to perform an incremental backup. This works seamlessly and is dead simple. If you have an all Windows network, this may be all you need.

My network is a bit more complicated as I have Linux and Mac machines, but WHS has me covered there as well. You can create any number of Shared Folders on the WHS machine and can opt to have those mirrored across multiple disks for redundancy in case one explodes. I use this to hold shows from my Tivo and backups from my Linux and Mac machines. It was easy to set up and has worked well for me so far.

But in other areas, the software feels like it gets in my way. First, it's often very slow. In interacting with the app, logging in to the WHS box by Remote Desktop is strongly discouraged, so you are using a .Net app installed on another Windows machine on your network. Now, that machine is plenty fast, and I have a gigabit ethernet connection between the two machines, so either the software or the WHS hardware is slow. Anecdotal evidence leads me to believe it's the software, so hopefully this will improve in future revisions.

There are also some design or testing issues with the software, such as the spurious message that frequently pops up telling me that I have 0 days to register my software. A brief search tells me that many users are seeing the same thing, and it's a known issue that won't cause any real problems. Still, it's a bit annoying.

Another small design issue is that there's no way, through the preferred remote console, to give your machine a static network address. As mentioned above, it's common to treat the WHS machine as a network share. In that case, you really need the WHS machine to have the same address and not be assigned different addresses from time to time. To do that configuration, I had to Remote Desktop into the machine and change the network configuration, something all available documentation warned me sternly not to do.

One very important caveat: I am currently relying on the device to hold much of my critical data in a redundant share, but I haven't put it through any substantial trial by fire. Until one of my disks fails but my data survives, I don't know for sure that it works. That would be the same for any storage solution: until it saves your bacon, you're making a leap of faith that it will when put to the test.

So, all in all, I'm happy with it, but there's definitely room for software improvement.

[YmoBeThere]

Not Windows Home Server, but I did sign up for MS Office Workspace Live(still in the beta stage)maybe it can cure my issues of needing a Smartphone to access Excel documents remotely. I have read good things about eXpresso...anyone have any experience with it?

[alteran]

For starters, I hope my conduct here as the resident Apple lover and Unix nerd doesn't immediately disqualify my review. While I often prefer competing products over those created by Microsoft, I give credit where it's due (I love my Xbox 360). If I have criticisms, I don't think they are a knee jerk anti-Microsoft bias. With that said, Windows Home Server at this point is a competent but somewhat unpolished product.

I purchased the HP MediaSmart WHS box, the 500GB version rather than going the OEM route. It's a nice piece of hardware: a surprisingly small black tower with 4 drive bays (one of which is taken by the 500GB disk), as well as 2 USB and 1 eSata ports in the back. Mirroring is not possible with only one disk, so I added another 750GB internal disk. That process was seamless and fun, with the software making it very simple to add the new storage to the existing pool. Thumbs up there.

There are essentially two ways to use the WHS system for remote storage, both of which are useful and easy to access. The first, only available for Windows clients, is as an automatic backup system. You install a small client application on your Windows desktop which checks in with the WHS machine each night to perform an incremental backup. This works seamlessly and is dead simple. If you have an all Windows network, this may be all you need.

My network is a bit more complicated as I have Linux and Mac machines, but WHS has me covered there as well. You can create any number of Shared Folders on the WHS machine and can opt to have those mirrored across multiple disks for redundancy in case one explodes. I use this to hold shows from my Tivo and backups from my Linux and Mac machines. It was easy to set up and has worked well for me so far.

But in other areas, the software feels like it gets in my way. First, it's often very slow. In interacting with the app, logging in to the WHS box by Remote Desktop is strongly discouraged, so you are using a .Net app installed on another Windows machine on your network. Now, that machine is plenty fast, and I have a gigabit ethernet connection between the two machines, so either the software or the WHS hardware is slow. Anecdotal evidence leads me to believe it's the software, so hopefully this will improve in future revisions.

There are also some design or testing issues with the software, such as the spurious message that frequently pops up telling me that I have 0 days to register my software. A brief search tells me that many users are seeing the same thing, and it's a known issue that won't cause any real problems. Still, it's a bit annoying.

Another small design issue is that there's no way, through the preferred remote console, to give your machine a static network address. As mentioned above, it's common to treat the WHS machine as a network share. In that case, you really need the WHS machine to have the same address and not be assigned different addresses from time to time. To do that configuration, I had to Remote Desktop into the machine and change the network configuration, something all available documentation warned me sternly not to do.

One very important caveat: I am currently relying on the device to hold much of my critical data in a redundant share, but I haven't put it through any substantial trial by fire. Until one of my disks fails but my data survives, I don't know for sure that it works. That would be the same for any storage solution: until it saves your bacon, you're making a leap of faith that it will when put to the test.

So, all in all, I'm happy with it, but there's definitely room for software improvement.

Thanks a lot BB, I'm on the fence here, and it's nice to know what's good and what's not so good. I think I may end up getting one, as my ad hoc backup system is time-intensive and fault-prone.

--alteran

[billybreen]

Thanks a lot BB, I'm on the fence here, and it's nice to know what's good and what's not so good. I think I may end up getting one, as my ad hoc backup system is time-intensive and fault-prone.

Yep, same reason I was looking for a new solution.

One note: I just learned yesterday of a new offering from Drobo: DroboShare (http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/14/droboshare-makes-your-drobo-nas-for-a-price/), which adds the NAS features that were sorely lacking in the standalone Drobo. This is an intriguing solution, but cost is a significant issue: without buying any storage, you're looking at $700 for a Drobo ($500) and DroboShare ($200). I am notoriously price insensitive, but that's a high number even for me.

[Karl Beem]

I've been using the WHS trial for the last week and I've decided no sale. It's backup technology is slow and cumbersome. What I really need is to mirror files on client computers. I like the shared folders which can be mirrored on the server, but there is no way I'm going to put both copies of my precious files on the same machine.

[Karl Beem]

I now have 6500 GB of storage on my home network.

:p

[YmoBeThere]

That would be 6.5 terabytes? I don't want to know what you are keeping on all that space...

[Karl Beem]

That would be 6.5 terabytes? I don't want to know what you are keeping on all that space...

Backups, music and videos. I have 133 GB of Duke games from 2007 alone. All important files are mirrored.

[YmoBeThere]

A few quick questions...

1) Karl - did you build your server yourself???

2) BillyBreen - the only difference I am seeing between the HP Media Smart Servers is storage space. Essentially, $150 for a 500GB hard drive. Is this right?

Now that you have had them a while, any thoughts on the performance of WHS?

[billybreen]

A few quick questions...

1) Karl - did you build your server yourself???

2) BillyBreen - the only difference I am seeing between the HP Media Smart Servers is storage space. Essentially, $150 for a 500GB hard drive. Is this right?

Now that you have had them a while, any thoughts on the performance of WHS?

Yep, that's the only difference. My review is largely unchanged -- it's a serviceable device, and it's fairly easy to set up, but the software is super clunky and slow. If a compelling alternative surfaces (something ZFS based, perhaps), I will look to transition off in 6 months to a year unless there are significant improvements in the WHS software.

[Karl Beem]

A few quick questions...

1) Karl - did you build your server yourself???


Yes. I replaced WHS with Win2K Pro. My Files drive is 3 Samsung 750FB in a Dynamic Spanned configuration. A simple archive script in REXX keeps a copy of chosen files from other machines. There's 500 GB left.

[YmoBeThere]

I bought an HP EX470 this week and just installed it. Now, trying to figure out what else I can do with it...

Anyone been to HomeServersHacks.com?