How did something come from nothing?

[EarlJam]

Whether you believe in Creationism or the Big Bang, one thing still baffles:

At some point, SOMETHING had to come from NOTHING.

Even a black void with gases is something. I don't care if it takes an electron microscope with mega-million zoom to pick up some particle that created the universe. That particle had to come from something, right?

The space that this universe is in had to come from something, right?

How is that even possible? Oh man. I'm freaked out.

-EarlJam

[bdh21]

Whether you believe in Creationism or the Big Bang, one thing still baffles:

At some point, SOMETHING had to come from NOTHING.

Even a black void with gases is something. I don't care if it takes an electron microscope with mega-million zoom to pick up some particle that created the universe. That particle had to come from something, right?

The space that this universe is in had to come from something, right?

How is that even possible? Oh man. I'm freaked out.

-EarlJam

Physics is chock full of fun and VERY weird situations like this.

What's really strange is that there are actually an infinite amount of particles (http://www.sciam.com/physics/article/id/are-virtual-particles-rea/topicID/13) appearing out of nowhere and then just as quickly disappearing. This commotion constantly takes place all around us and we can actually observe its effects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect).

[Fish80]

If you want to blow your mind, check out this global consciousness project.

http://noosphere.princeton.edu/

Also, watch the DVD "What the Bleep Do We Know!? Down the Rabbit Hole", the quantum edition. Very weird stuff.

[hurleyfor3]

E = mc^2. It was all energy before it turned into stuff.

There's something called Planck time... google it. Astrophysicists don't know what things were like back then, either. Apparently the ACC had only one team, but nobody can figure out what it was.

[EarlJam]

E = mc^2. It was all energy before it turned into stuff.

There's something called Planck time... google it. Astrophysicists don't know what things were like back then, either. Apparently the ACC had only one team, but nobody can figure out what it was.

But energy. THAT is something. And the space the energy was occupying. THAT is something. NO? Where did the "energy" originally get its source?

[Fish80]

E = mc^2. It was all energy before it turned into stuff.

There's something called Planck time... google it. Astrophysicists don't know what things were like back then, either. Apparently the ACC had only one team, but nobody can figure out what it was.

What was there before the energy? Where did that come from?

Time before the big bang - " . . . another universe whose collapse appears to have given birth to the one we live in today . . ." and the Big Bounce.

These guys just make stuff up.

[hurleyfor3]

But energy. THAT is something. And the space the energy was occupying. THAT is something. NO? Where did the "energy" originally get its source?

My astro professor (the guy who also taught at NCCSM; maybe he's still at Duke) put it succinctly: Not only was every thing in the same place, but every place was also in the same place.

I guess you either understand this or you don't, but it would have real hard to earn frequent-flier miles. Or really really easy; I'm not sure.

[hurleyfor3]

What was there before the energy? Where did that come from?


That's where Planck time comes in. Nobody knows, or has an empirically-based guess.

[EarlJam]

My astro professor (the guy who also taught at NCCSM; maybe he's still at Duke) put it succinctly: Not only was every thing in the same place, but every place was also in the same place.

I guess you either understand this or you don't, but it would have real hard to earn frequent-flier miles. Or really really easy; I'm not sure.

:eek: The left lobe of my brain just slid down my neck.

-EarlJam

[Fish80]

That's where Planck time comes in. Nobody knows, or has an empirically-based guess.

Now, something else to worry about. Human observation of dark energy may shorten the life span of the universe.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071125-human-observation-of-dark-energy-may-shorten-the-life-span-of-the-universe.html

They better stop looking at the dark force or we'll end time sooner that we thought.

[hurleyfor3]

They better stop looking at the dark force or we'll end time sooner that we thought.

I wonder if physics bulletin boards have endless threads on stallball too.

[Lavabe]

Whether you believe in Creationism or the Big Bang, one thing still baffles:

At some point, SOMETHING had to come from NOTHING.

Even a black void with gases is something. I don't care if it takes an electron microscope with mega-million zoom to pick up some particle that created the universe. That particle had to come from something, right?

The space that this universe is in had to come from something, right?

How is that even possible? Oh man. I'm freaked out.

-EarlJam

Be careful. This has all the potential of being transferred over to...

the Twilight Zone (a.k.a. the Public Policy Board).:eek: :eek:

It's times like these when I refer to that great 5th Beatle, Billy Preston, who I believe stated:

"Nothing from nothing leaves nothing."

Don't freak out ... be happy!:D
Cheers,
Lavabe

[aimo]

Now I'll never get to sleep tonight.

Thanks.

[Fish80]

I wonder if physics bulletin boards have endless threads on stallball too.

Amazing what comes up when you google physics stallball.

http://www.lockergnome.com/news/2006/06/15/horseballs/

The Physics of Basketball by John Fontanella looks like it might be a good read.

[snowdenscold]

Whether you believe in Creationism or the Big Bang, one thing still baffles:

At some point, SOMETHING had to come from NOTHING.

Even a black void with gases is something. I don't care if it takes an electron microscope with mega-million zoom to pick up some particle that created the universe. That particle had to come from something, right?

The space that this universe is in had to come from something, right?

How is that even possible? Oh man. I'm freaked out.

-EarlJam

It is a hard concept. I best resolve by believing in a supernatural being (God) - who exists outside of the universe he created. Being outside, he is not subject to causality or creation. We don't have the capacity to comprehend this because we exist inside the universe where those rules do apply. To think he exists everywhere at every time all simultaneously is pretty freaky. Most people can grasp the "everywhere" at once concept - but the "every time" at once is harder.


I said "God" - does that cross the PP board line? :)

[EarlJam]

I said "God" - does that cross the PP board line? :)

I don't know, but as to your theory, I hope you're right. I sometimes wonder if we, as beings in another world/dimension, selected our "journey" in advance. Kind of like Earth being a ride in an amusement park; or a virual "game" where serious lessons are learned. We popped the "quarter" in and were born into our experience.

Once we leave this Earth, we go back to where we came, wipe the metaphorical sweat off our brow, and say, "Whew! That was a ride but it was worth it. What next?"

In the end, which is not the end, maybe we just find that this whole Earth experience was nothing more than a two-minute roller coaster ride featuring ups, downs, loops, free falls, and of course, Duke basketball.

Anyone have Ricky Williams' phone number?

-EarlJam

[Lavabe]

Anyone have Ricky Williams' phone number?
-EarlJam

Ask either Steely Dan or Tommy Tutone.
Cheers,
Lavabe

P.S. Sorry aimo. At least I posted an EarWorm warning this time.

[snowdenscold]

I don't know, but as to your theory, I hope you're right. I sometimes wonder if we, as beings in another world/dimension, selected our "journey" in advance. Kind of like Earth being a ride in an amusement park; or a virual "game" where serious lessons are learned. We popped the "quarter" in and were born into our experience.

Once we leave this Earth, we go back to where we came, wipe the metaphorical sweat off our brow, and say, "Whew! That was a ride but it was worth it. What next?"

In the end, which is not the end, maybe we just find that this whole Earth experience was nothing more than a two-minute roller coaster ride featuring ups, downs, loops, free falls, and of course, Duke basketball.

Anyone have Ricky Williams' phone number?

-EarlJam

You are correct - it is possible we exist inside any concept of other "universes", "multiverses", etc. that have rules governing us that we don't know about (through their being hidden to us or just not comprehensible to our thought processes). There's really endless possibilities that could explain things at this point.

However, I also have to factor in that if something outside of this current universe has some sort of control over us and/or this universe's "creation" - then do I believe it/they would want to communicate with us in some way and reach out to us to make their purpose known? Well then it becomes a matter of faith - to which I personally say "yes".



snowden's "wrote that whole past w/o saying the g-word" cold

[Lavabe]

However, I also have to factor in that if something outside of this current universe has some sort of control over us and/or this universe's "creation"

snowden's "wrote that whole past w/o saying the g-word" cold

Yeah, but it sounds an awful lot like an intelligent controller to me! ;)

Here's where the FSM reference is in order.

Welcome to THE TWILIGHT ZONE.:eek:

Cheers,
Lavabe

[snowdenscold]

Yeah, but it sounds an awful lot like an intelligent controller to me! ;)

Here's where the FSM reference is in order.

Welcome to THE TWILIGHT ZONE.:eek:

Cheers,
Lavabe

Sure, bring up FSM - but that was the whole point of my second paragraph (reread the second half of it)

My tagline was more of a joke than an attempt to try to mimic an ID debate. Just was giving a shout out to the PP board =)

[g_olaf]

Whether you believe in Creationism or the Big Bang, one thing still baffles:

At some point, SOMETHING had to come from NOTHING.

Even a black void with gases is something. I don't care if it takes an electron microscope with mega-million zoom to pick up some particle that created the universe. That particle had to come from something, right?

The space that this universe is in had to come from something, right?

How is that even possible? Oh man. I'm freaked out.

-EarlJam


In essence, you have presented a variant of Aristotle's unmovable mover argument. (There had to be something to put the first thing in motion, therefore God exists).

I would ask, why did you have to start with nothing?

[EarlJam]

I would ask, why did you have to start with nothing?

Doesn't every "thing" have to have a day one? A beginning? Even when I think of "nothing" I see "something" - a black void or vast white space. Both of those are "somethings."

Anyway, just talked to the bossman about putting together an advertising placement matrix. Guess I'll do that #$%.

-EarlJam

[Lavabe]

My tagline was more of a joke than an attempt to try to mimic an ID debate. Just was giving a shout out to the PP board =)

I guess someone has to shout out to the PPB, eh?;)

Cheers,
Lavabe

[allenmurray]

This thread has over 20 posts and no one has yet brought up the (late) great Billy Preston?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmbqpRYXQ6g

[Lavabe]

This thread has over 20 posts and no one has yet brought up the (late) great Billy Preston?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmbqpRYXQ6g

Thanks allen... that would be post#12 in the thread! I'm a soldier in the war on poverty!

And with that, I have crossed the magical 600 threshold.

WOO HOO!!

Cheers,
Lavabe

[allenmurray]

Reading too fast again. Well at least my error served the purpose of getting you to 600! Isn't that a great video of BP!

[JBDuke]

My astro professor (the guy who also taught at NCCSM; maybe he's still at Duke) put it succinctly: Not only was every thing in the same place, but every place was also in the same place.
...

Kolena. Best prof I had at Duke. I hope he's still teaching!

[Lavabe]

Reading too fast again. Well at least my error served the purpose of getting you to 600! Isn't that a great video of BP!

That takes me back. Thanks for the link!
Cheers,
Lavabe

[dukestheheat]

EarlJam-

dude, you are rolling TO-night!

dth.

[-jk]

Kolena. Best prof I had at Duke. I hope he's still teaching!

Hmm... I have some vague recollection of "Kolena math".

-jk

[cspan37421]

If you want to blow your mind, check out this global consciousness project.

http://noosphere.princeton.edu/

Also, watch the DVD "What the Bleep Do We Know!? Down the Rabbit Hole", the quantum edition. Very weird stuff.

I agree it is weird, but probably not for the same reason. You may or may not be aware that it is widely reported that this movie was directed by devotees of a new age religious cult, the Ramtha School of Enlightenment. [their own website confirms this]. It is chock full of pseudoscience and masquerading as a science documentary.

http://wweek.com/story.php?story=5860
http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/?p=83
etc.

As strange as modern physics, thoughts do not change the structure of water - not in any way that we can measure, anyway.

[hurleyfor3]

Kolena. Best prof I had at Duke. I hope he's still teaching!

Yeah, that was him. Probably the most interesting class I took. Too bad it was spring semester of senior year.

[camion]

I agree it is weird, but probably not for the same reason. You may or may not be aware that it is widely reported that this movie was directed by devotees of a new age religious cult, the Ramtha School of Enlightenment. [their own website confirms this]. It is chock full of pseudoscience and masquerading as a science documentary.

http://wweek.com/story.php?story=5860
http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/?p=83
etc.

As strange as modern physics, thoughts do not change the structure of water - not in any way that we can measure, anyway.

This is getting pretty far afield but I once had dinner at a friends house where one of the guests professed to channel Ramtha. That brought to mind the Kevin Costner quote from Bull Durham, "How come everybody was somebody famous in their former lifetimes? Somebody must have been Joe Schmoe."

[BlueDevilBaby]

"Nothing comes from nothing. Nothing ever could." Points for who can name the song from Broadway musical/film.;)

[Fish80]

As strange as modern physics, thoughts do not change the structure of water - not in any way that we can measure, anyway.

I'm channeling Ramtha now. He's actually typing this post, using my fingers. Feels weird.

A real funny Lewis Black routine involves water. Long story short, he goes on a tirade about the nutrition labels on water bottles and concludes there must be water with fat in it, and he wants the tasty fat water.

[rsvman]

"Nothing comes from nothing. Nothing ever could." Points for who can name the song from Broadway musical/film.;)

Too easy. It's "The Sound of Music."

[BlueDevilBaby]

Too easy. It's "The Sound of Music."

Well done.

[hughgs]

Doesn't every "thing" have to have a day one? A beginning? Even when I think of "nothing" I see "something" - a black void or vast white space. Both of those are "somethings."

Anyway, just talked to the bossman about putting together an advertising placement matrix. Guess I'll do that #$%.

-EarlJam

Why does everything have to have a beginning? Noone has ever experienced the "true" beginning of something, merely the transformation from one state to another. Raw materials beget a basketball.

And so, to your specific example. Do you really see something when you see pure black? Or are you merely sensing the absence of things and describing the area as black? A description of something and the existence of something are two different things. Fortunately, the correct answers are all up to you.

[EarlJam]

Why does everything have to have a beginning? Noone has ever experienced the "true" beginning of something, merely the transformation from one state to another. Raw materials beget a basketball.

And so, to your specific example. Do you really see something when you see pure black? Or are you merely sensing the absence of things and describing the area as black? A description of something and the existence of something are two different things. Fortunately, the correct answers are all up to you.

Just when I thought I had "recovered," you deliver this. Thanks. And damn you.

-EarlJam

[hughgs]

Just when I thought I had "recovered," you deliver this. Thanks. And damn you.

-EarlJam

My pleasure!!

To be honest I always wanted to be a philosophy minor in undergrad but thinking about these types of 'issues' is as close as I could get.