Braves 2010 season thread

[Olympic Fan]

Just thought that with today's news, it's time to start our season-long discussion of the Braves.

The news: the Braves announced that Jason Heywood will open the season as the team's starting rightfielder -- after the majority of offseason speculation was that Heywood would start in the minors.

I'm watching the the ESPN broadcast of the Braves-Tigers today (Friday) and Heywood has already had an impact -- a 10-pitch at bat in the second against Verlander that seemed to disrupt a guy -- he followed by allowing a balk and an RBI single. In the fourth, Heywood rocketed a Verlander changeup into left-center, playing a big part in the rally that tied the game.

Looks like it's going to be McLouth in CF and Heywood in RF ... Melky Cabrera and Matt Diaz are going to platoon in left. The biggest concern to me in Troy Glaus at 1B -- he's a career outfielder who currently looks very uncomfortable at 1B.

Still love the starting staff, even without Vasquez ... at least we have Hudson for the entire season.

Can't see this team catching the Phillies (not if the Phillies are close to where they've been the last two years), but I think the Braves have a very real chance to compete for the wild card.

[Matches]

I'm optimistic. I haven't totally gotten baseball fever yet since Duke is still playing bball, but that'll change in the next few weeks.

If Glaus can hit, I can overlook mediocre defense at 1B. We can always use Hinske as a late-inning defensive replacement if needed.

I love the starting rotation, still waiting to see how the bullpen will get filled in. I'm a little nervous about McLouth's poor spring, but overall I think this team should be a playoff contender.

[Jarhead]

For may years, it was a joy to be able to watch just about every Braves home game through the courtesy of Ted Turner and WTBS. In recent years the games have only rarely been shown, and now it's either PPV or ESPN, but ESPN shows them hardly more than once a month. I have heard that this year Fox Sports South will be showing them. Anybody have details on this?

[Matches]

The games are split between FSN, SSN, and Peachtree TV. Since TBS and the Braves have different owners, their games are no longer on TBS.

They're still on most nights; they're just a little harder to find than they used to be.

[Spencer's Daddy]

the Braves announced that Jason Heywood will open the season as the team's starting rightfielder


With JJ Reddick and Sheldon Williams in left and right, respectively.









PS It's Heyward!

[theAlaskanBear]

The Braves should be an improved team, but there really is no way to compete with the Phillies, barring massive disappointment on their end. What you all should do instead is root for my team, the STL Cardinals!!! ;)

My dad grew up two hours outside of StLouis, so Cardinal baseball has been the center of my life since day one. I do root for the Braves, inasmuch as they are rivals to the Phillies, whom I hate with such a passion.

[Dukerati]

Just thought that with today's news, it's time to start our season-long discussion of the Braves.

The news: the Braves announced that Jason Heywood will open the season as the team's starting rightfielder -- after the majority of offseason speculation was that Heywood would start in the minors.

I'm watching the the ESPN broadcast of the Braves-Tigers today (Friday) and Heywood has already had an impact -- a 10-pitch at bat in the second against Verlander that seemed to disrupt a guy -- he followed by allowing a balk and an RBI single. In the fourth, Heywood rocketed a Verlander changeup into left-center, playing a big part in the rally that tied the game.

Looks like it's going to be McLouth in CF and Heywood in RF ... Melky Cabrera and Matt Diaz are going to platoon in left. The biggest concern to me in Troy Glaus at 1B -- he's a career outfielder who currently looks very uncomfortable at 1B.

Still love the starting staff, even without Vasquez ... at least we have Hudson for the entire season.

Can't see this team catching the Phillies (not if the Phillies are close to where they've been the last two years), but I think the Braves have a very real chance to compete for the wild card.

It's Jason Heyward:) Since he's the next anointed savior for the franchise (and my dynasty keeper fantasy baseball team), I figure we should get the name right. We've been the dark horse pick for a lot of publications to challenge the Phillies and an above average offense coupled with a deep talented pitching staff should have us caring about baseball into September at the very least!

[northernduke]

My thoughts on 4 keys to the season:

1. Starting pitching - Kawakame needs to produce double digits wins for the club and keep us in ball games. Jurjens must stay healthy - losing him to an elbow injury could make for a long season.

2. Bullpen performance after losing Soriano and Gonzalez must keep pace. While I wasn't high on Gonzalez closing games, I liked Soriano's stuff. I hope Wagner can stay healthy and if he does expect him to have a strong year (assuming we can give him a lead).

3. Chipper and Glaus - we need to keep these bodies healthy. Chipper will get his if he can stay on the diamond. He's so much better at the plate at the tail end of his career. His patience is unreal. I hope Glaus can give us 20 - 25 HRs and 80 - 100 RBIs (too much to ask?).

4. Hayward - we will see how good he is 3 weeks into the season after scouts have had a chance to really get a look at him. Remember, Frenchy (who I still wished we had for his clubhouse presence / potential) started strong but faded and Shaeffer had a quick start to his career last year but that didn't end so well. Hayward is a man child who seems very poised in all interviews I've seen. Not looking for him to carry us but hit .280 or better with some power (maybe I'll get greedy and wish .300 in a month).

I'm excited for the season, which is the first one in awhile. I think the front office has put a good roster together that can compete for the division. It will be a dog fight though. Already have my tickets to the Mets series at Citi Field in April and September!

[Matches]

I'm not sure Franceour was such a great clubhouse presence at all. I know he and McCann were close but I get the sense Frenchy was a little self-absorbed.

I'm thrilled, though, that we've been able to push Franceour AND Acosta off on the Mets. Maybe the Mets will sign Greg Norton next.

[Baxter the Lab]

The biggest concern to me in Troy Glaus at 1B -- he's a career outfielder who currently looks very uncomfortable at 1B.



I agree that Glaus will get every opportunity to win the 1B job, but don't sleep on Eric Hinske.

He's a former ROY and has a ton of talent. He's healthy and has been killing the ball over the spring.

He has also played 1B in the past, so I would not be at all surprised should he beat out Glaus at some point this year...

[theAlaskanBear]

I agree that Glaus will get every opportunity to win the 1B job, but don't sleep on Eric Hinske.

He's a former ROY and has a ton of talent. He's healthy and has been killing the ball over the spring.

He has also played 1B in the past, so I would not be at all surprised should he beat out Glaus at some point this year...

If Glaus is truly healthy, he is a good pick up for you guys, and at 1st base he should be way more comfortable than 3rd, with his shoulder issues, but he could probably play that in a pinch.

In 2008 he had a pretty good year for the Cardinals, hitting 270 and close to 30 HRs, over 30 doubles. He was injured for most all of 2009 though so I am curious as to how well Glaus can recover his form!

[JasonEvans]

On Baseball Tonight they said the #1 story coming out of Spring Training was how impressed the baseball world is with Jason Heyward. The experts on the show said he makes the Braves major contenders and probably the 2nd best team in the NL (barely behind the Phils). One peson added that if Glaus can play 1B, the Braves will be his pick to win the World Series.

-Jason "can't wait to see them start playing for real!" Evans

[theAlaskanBear]

On Baseball Tonight they said the #1 story coming out of Spring Training was how impressed the baseball world is with Jason Heyward. The experts on the show said he makes the Braves major contenders and probably the 2nd best team in the NL (barely behind the Phils). One peson added that if Glaus can play 1B, the Braves will be his pick to win the World Series.

-Jason "can't wait to see them start playing for real!" Evans

I'm not sure I buy this. I am pulling for ATL, they have some pop this year, but I don't know that they QUITE make the jump.

They were third in their division, and have 6 teams that finished ahead of them in the standing. I don't see them claiming the Wildcard, because out West they get to beat up San Diego and Washington, and in the Central we have an extra team (the Pirates or Houston, however you want to look at it) to beat up to pad the record. In the East, the only team you can punk with regularity is the Nationals.

HOWEVER, I think trading away Cliff Lee for Halladay was stupid to the Nth degree. Halladay has a ton of mileage on that arm, and being new to the little league bandbox in Philly....he may struggle to adjust a bit. Plus, I don't think Raul Ibanez can have another ridiculous year....so the Phillies may slip this year.

At this point, the Braves lineup is still weaker than the Dodgers, Cardinals, and Phillies...so they need to get get it done with pitching and defense.

[JasonEvans]

I think most folks expect the pitching staff to be even better this year, despite the loss of Javy to the Yankees.

Hudson is healthy and was pitching realy well down the stretch last year. He's a #1 starter on most teams. Hanson is a year older and he appears to be very close to making "the leap" to being one of the elite starters in the game. Lowe has looked waay better than a year ago and has been tapped as the opening day starter. JJ is top-tier as well. No team in the NL has anywhere close to their depth of starters.

Wagner has been popping over 100 mph on the gun all spring. If he stays healthy, the bullpen will be better than last year too.

Maybe I am just a wildly optimistic Braves fan but the notion that they are only of the top 5 teams in the game right now does not seem that insane to me.

Also worth noting-- they saved some money in the off-season to spend on a trade-deadline salary dump by some other team. The Braves will be a player at the trade deadline.

-Jason "they really want to win in Bobby's last season" Evans

[northernduke]

Maybe I am just a wildly optimistic Braves fan but the notion that they are only of the top 5 teams in the game right now does not seem that insane to me.

I'm in the same camp. It's a long enough season to temper expectations. We (knock on wood) have Hudson for the entire season as well as Hanson. Can't wait for the first pitch.

[throatybeard]

My thoughts on 4 keys to the season:
I hope Glaus can give us 20 - 25 HRs and 80 - 100 RBIs (too much to ask?)

Based on what we saw at Busch, yes, too much to ask.

[theAlaskanBear]

Based on what we saw at Busch, yes, too much to ask.

Are you a Cardinal fan, Beard?

Its not completely out of the question. Two years ago with us he hit 27 and 99, so its not TERRIBLY far off. The RBIs will drop to around 60-70, and he will hit 20 HRs is my guess.

[Baxter the Lab]

I don't see them claiming the Wildcard, because out West they get to beat up San Diego and Washington, and in the Central we have an extra team (the Pirates or Houston, however you want to look at it) to beat up to pad the record. In the East, the only team you can punk with regularity is the Nationals.

Now I know the Nats are bad, but no one is THAT bad as to be easy pickin's for two different divisions. :)

I am curious whom you meant though. I'm guessing Arizona?

[theAlaskanBear]

Now I know the Nats are bad, but no one is THAT bad as to be easy pickin's for two different divisions. :)

I am curious whom you meant though. I'm guessing Arizona?

Haha, yeah you got it. They wont be terrible, but I dont see them competing for the division like the Gnats, Rox, Dodgers.

[northernduke]

Based on what we saw at Busch, yes, too much to ask.

I can hope, can't I? Irrational exuberance to begin the season is to be expected!:D

We just need him to stay on the field and log 400+ at bats.

[northernduke]

Heyward just uncorked one on his first AB. 3 run dinger! Just need a few more of those this year. Man, that is a beautiful stroke.


I do remember Shafer starting off on a similar note in Philly last year, but expect Heyward to be more consistent.

[throatybeard]

Are you a Cardinal fan, Beard?

I am a Braves fan first and a Cardinals fan second, much more recently. I've been watching the Braves since we moved to GA when I was 6 in 1983. Or I was until TBS dropped them. Now I don't see the Braves very often.

[Channing]

looks like Lowe started this year much like he finished last year...

[JasonEvans]

16-5, a good way to start (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap;_ylt=AhXBrsc6Zcb2qV_FPuHNOKERvLYF?gid=300405 115)the season, eh?

-Jason "Heyward is must see MLB TV" Evans

[Matches]

Yeah, yesterday went pretty well, sports-wise. 16 runs every game should be plenty. :)

[hurleyfor3]

I'm a day late on this, but congratulations to the Braves for already mathematically eliminating the Cubs.

[COYS]

Good to see Chipper get a big hit early in the year last night. And Wagner looked fantastic in his first save opportunity. So far, the trend from last season giving Lowe ridiculous amounts of run support while leaving JJ out to dry appears to remain in effect. I hope we can turn that around because we definitely need to be able to capitalize on strong starts from JJ to make the leap to the postseason. I have a lot of confidence in this team so far and I'm definitely with Jason in the wildly optimistic Braves fan.

Hopefully, by eliminating Johnson and Frenchy (two guys I really pull for but, hey, they just didn't get the job done with us) from the lineup, we'll play with eight legit hitters and rid ourselves of two automatic outs. Actually, after Schafer hurt his wrist, we basically had three automatic outs in our lineup at the beginning of last season. This year, we replace Schafer with McClouth (upgrade), Johnson with Prado (upgrade), and Frenchy with Heyward (definitely an upgrade from the 2009 Braves version of Frenchy). We have Hanson and Hudson in the rotation for the full season, which should makeup for the loss of Javy. Assuming McCann can avoid any additional vision issues, we should have a LOT more consistency in our lineup from the beginning this season. Hopefully that stability will pay off.

[throatybeard]

This is not an Onion headline. (http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy/blog/roto_arcade/post/Chipper-Jones-injures-his-back-while-testing-his;_ylt=AlGulotWnh9PEPYRq7SVQnu5bZ8u?urn=fantasy, 233655)

[COYS]

Hmm . . . really hoping for a +.500 April this year. Hope we can turn things around against the Pads tonight and go into this big homestand with a little momentum.

[COYS]

Great rebound for the Braves after the embarrassing loss to the Pads earlier in the week. Glad to see the offense produce consistently over the past three games. Also, I don't know if anyone else caught the decisive second inning tonight, but it was great to see us score 7 runs in a frame, many of them with 2 outs, without a big, bases clearing hit. Guys fought off two strike pitches and hit opposite field singles, or got counts in their favor and pounced on fastballs. Hopefully Melky got it going tonight. If Glaus, Melky, and McClouth can become consistent contributors, our offense will be plenty solid enough to compliment our great starting pitching.

[Jarhead]

Hmm . . . really hoping for a +.500 April this year. Hope we can turn things around against the Pads tonight and go into this big homestand with a little momentum.

It worked, at least for a few days. They took care of business with the Padres and the Rockies. Keep it going tonight. Just stay close to the Phillies, or take the lead from them, and I'm happy. They are at .600 so far for April. I know that batting averages are a bit up-and-down this early in the season, but I am happy with Prado's .463, and Heyward's .316. Chipper will come around, too. He was 2 for 3 last night with an rbi and 2 walks. Was he batting lefty?

Mrs. Jarhead and I spent Easter weekend in Atlanta visiting my son and his family. It was a great weekend watching the final four with them. My son and his wife are both Duke grads, and their kids are huge Duke fans, too. It was real fun.

So was the Braves game that my son and I went to. It was the last spring training game of the year, but Turner field was jumping. The attendance had to be almost 20,000. When we went to our seats out in left field, there was a lady usher, almost as old as me, who introduced us to all of the folks in sections 134 and 234. She greeted everybody, and knew most of them by name. She even introduced the vendors to us as they came around. A young couple sitting next to us explained that they have been sitting in the same seats for a few years, and all of the regular fans would get a hug from that lady usher at every game. She knew baseball, too, and kept us informed on everything including Braves history. She told me that Heyward was going to be something special.

[JasonEvans]

http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/cnishared/tools/shared/mediahub/02/90/52/slideshow_1529028_braves.0419_CC12.JPG

Maybe it is just me, but I think this Hayward kid is gonna work out ok (http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-braves/heyward-the-hero-with-472353.html).

--Jason "http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/cnishared/tools/shared/mediahub/01/89/52/slideshow_1528911_braves.0419_CC8.JPG" Evans

[Dukerati]

Is it just me or has 75% of Jason Heyward's hits gone to the opposite field this year? His swing speed is so fast that he can just wait forever on pitches. Forget right now. He's going to be AMAZING in two years.

On another note, we get our first litmus test of the year with the Phils coming in tonight. It'll be nice to see how we respond to the NL East favorites.

[JohnGalt]

Is it just me or has 75% of Jason Heyward's hits gone to the opposite field this year? His swing speed is so fast that he can just wait forever on pitches. Forget right now. He's going to be AMAZING in two years.

He said in an interview that he can see the ball leaving the pitcher's hand and where his fingers are in relation to the seams, leading to his ability to determine its spin. It's going to even more important for pitchers to try and hide the ball as much as possible. Really, if what he said is true it doesn't seem that like will matter much then does it?

He also seems to have a little of the "LeBron James Gift" about him. How in the world are you 20 years old and look the way Jason Heyward does? He is so much more physically mature than most his age, it's scary.

[Jarhead]

He said in an interview that he can see the ball leaving the pitcher's hand and where his fingers are in relation to the seams, leading to his ability to determine its spin. It's going to even more important for pitchers to try and hide the ball as much as possible. Really, if what he said is true it doesn't seem that like will matter much then does it?

He also seems to have a little of the "LeBron James Gift" about him. How in the world are you 20 years old and look the way Jason Heyward does? He is so much more physically mature than most his age, it's scary.

That ninth inning tonight must have been something for the fans at Turner Field. Home runs by Glaus and Something Special (Heyward) in the ninth to send it into extra innings. Then in the tenth Mclouth Gets one for the win over the Phillies. I'm liking these guys.

[northernduke]

He also seems to have a little of the "LeBron James Gift" about him. How in the world are you 20 years old and look the way Jason Heyward does? He is so much more physically mature than most his age, it's scary.

He's a man child.

BTW, nice to see Glaus get a dinger last night. We could use some more productivity out of him.

[Dukerati]

He's a man child.

BTW, nice to see Glaus get a dinger last night. We could use some more productivity out of him.

Yep, in the 7/8 spot, not in the 5. Not sure how much more J-hey needs to do to get up there in the 5 hole. My ideal lineup right now would look like this:

Prado
Escobar
Chipper
McCann
Heyward
Diaz
Glaus
McLouth
Pitcher

[Channing]

6 out of 8 starting position players with batting averages below the Mendoza Line. Chipper at .241. This is absolutely abysmal. At what point does this fall back on Terry Pendleton? I mean, this offense is epically awful right now.

[Jarhead]

Just eight games ago they were 8 wins and 5 losses. Now they are still at 8 wins, but have last 13. That's 8 games in a row they have lost. Pendleton can't be held totally responsible. What else is wrong? I'm rapidly losing interest in this Braves season. Next up, Duke vs Elon in September.

[devildeac]

pitchers issued 9 BB yesterday; batters with 7 hits. Plus 2 errors. Sad. Looking like the Braves of the 70s now.

[theAlaskanBear]

As a Cardinal fan, I almost feel like apologizing.

[Jarhead]

pitchers issued 9 BB yesterday; batters with 7 hits. Plus 2 errors. Sad. Looking like the Braves of the 70s now.It's worse than that, dd. According to USA Today, its the worst MLB road trip in more than sixty years, way back to when they were the Boston Braves. At least this 9 loss road trip, is over, none too soon. They play Houston at home tonight. Maybe they'll start another record breaker, but I'm not going to predict which way it will go.

[Jarhead]

Okay, so the Braves won last night, but it was at home against Houston, the only team in the National league with a worse record. It is a win, though.

[devildeac]

Okay, so the Braves won last night, but it was at home against Houston, the only team in the National league with a worse record. It is a win, though.

Oooh, a winning streak...:rolleyes:

[Jarhead]

Oooh, a winning streak...:rolleyes: Yup, a winning streak. They won again yesterday, and I enjoyed watching it very much, although Chipper was a disappointment. Hudson did just fine, but they are still last in National League East, though. Bummer.:(

[Olympic Fan]

Yup, a winning streak. They won again yesterday, and I enjoyed watching it very much, although Chipper was a disappointment. Hudson did just fine, but they are still last in National League East, though. Bummer.:(

Another win today -- with Lowe on the bound. And three more RBIs for Heyward!!

First, nine straight losses ... now, three wins in a row (and counting)!

[devildeac]

Another win today -- with Lowe on the bound. And three more RBIs for Heyward!!

First, nine straight losses ... now, three wins in a row (and counting)!

And more guy hitting above the Mendoza line after their 15 hit barrage yesterday:rolleyes:.

[Jarhead]

Well, how about that. Gotta think about who they were playing, though. The Astros are not much of a challenge. Another road trip starts, at the Nats followed by the Phillies. Well it's a chance to get out of the division basement.:rolleyes:

[COYS]

Well, how about that. Gotta think about who they were playing, though. The Astros are not much of a challenge. Another road trip starts, at the Nats followed by the Phillies. Well it's a chance to get out of the division basement.:rolleyes:

Nothing to do but try to win some more games. Nice to see Heyward rebound during this series in a big way. I just LOVE seeing those opposite field hits. Honestly, I don't know how much longer we can keep him hitting 6th or 7th. Glaus seemed to get it going a bit, too, though, and I have faith in McCann, obviously. Plus, it's not like he's struggling to drive in runs.

[Olympic Fan]

Nothing to do but try to win some more games. Nice to see Heyward rebound during this series in a big way. I just LOVE seeing those opposite field hits. Honestly, I don't know how much longer we can keep him hitting 6th or 7th. Glaus seemed to get it going a bit, too, though, and I have faith in McCann, obviously. Plus, it's not like he's struggling to drive in runs.

I was thinking about the Braves' odd batting order yesterday and about the stubborn insistence at keeping Heyward at No. 6 or No. 7 in the lineup.

Obviously, he's getting a lot of RBIs, but I suspect that's due to his efficiency with RISP, rather than his spot in the lineup.

Lineup does matter -- Bill James did a pretty good study of how changing the lineup can have a huge impact on runs scored. He was looking at the question of whether it was better to spread your best hitters out in the lineup or to bunch them together (by far, the latter strategy is more effective).

It's pretty clear that a team should start with at least a couple of good OBP guys at the top (it helps is they can run, but getting on base is MUCH more valuable). The best all-around hitter should bat third, followed by a couple of guys with strong SLUG.

Bobby Cox has been hamstrung this year because a couple of guys who were pretty effective in the past have been awful -- Escobar (.295 OBP; .266 SLUG), McLouth (.299 OBP, 297 SLUG) and worst of all Diaz (.226 OBP; .240 SLUG). Cabrera hasn't brought much (.308 OBP, .250 SLUG).

So what can Cox do?

Well, I'd move Chipper up to No. 2 in the lineup. He's no longer a No. 3 hitter (his slugging has been falling for years and is now down to a mediocre .353). But he still gets on base -- with 14 hits and 18 walks, his OBP is a solid .372.

Prado (.414 OBP, .475 SLUG) should be No. 3, followed by Heyward (.388 OBP, .580 SLUG), McCann (.395 OBP, .394 SLUG) and Glaus (.344 OBP, .338 SLUG) ... I can see the arguement for Chipper-Prado-McCann-Heywood-Glaus, but I like Heyward batting right behind a Prado who is on the base all the time. With Chipper and Prado batting right in front of him, he would drive in a lot more runs. Then he has McCann batting behind him to protect him.

And if the Braves could find a decent leadoff hitter -- McLouth showed signs of that in the past -- the offense would take off.

[devildeac]

I was thinking about the Braves' odd batting order yesterday and about the stubborn insistence at keeping Heyward at No. 6 or No. 7 in the lineup.

Obviously, he's getting a lot of RBIs, but I suspect that's due to his efficiency with RISP, rather than his spot in the lineup.

Lineup does matter -- Bill James did a pretty good study of how changing the lineup can have a huge impact on runs scored. He was looking at the question of whether it was better to spread your best hitters out in the lineup or to bunch them together (by far, the latter strategy is more effective).

It's pretty clear that a team should start with at least a couple of good OBP guys at the top (it helps is they can run, but getting on base is MUCH more valuable). The best all-around hitter should bat third, followed by a couple of guys with strong SLUG.

Bobby Cox has been hamstrung this year because a couple of guys who were pretty effective in the past have been awful -- Escobar (.295 OBP; .266 SLUG), McLouth (.299 OBP, 297 SLUG) and worst of all Diaz (.226 OBP; .240 SLUG). Cabrera hasn't brought much (.308 OBP, .250 SLUG).

So what can Cox do?

Well, I'd move Chipper up to No. 2 in the lineup. He's no longer a No. 3 hitter (his slugging has been falling for years and is now down to a mediocre .353). But he still gets on base -- with 14 hits and 18 walks, his OBP is a solid .372.

Prado (.414 OBP, .475 SLUG) should be No. 3, followed by Heyward (.388 OBP, .580 SLUG), McCann (.395 OBP, .394 SLUG) and Glaus (.344 OBP, .338 SLUG) ... I can see the arguement for Chipper-Prado-McCann-Heywood-Glaus, but I like Heyward batting right behind a Prado who is on the base all the time. With Chipper and Prado batting right in front of him, he would drive in a lot more runs. Then he has McCann batting behind him to protect him.

And if the Braves could find a decent leadoff hitter -- McLouth showed signs of that in the past -- the offense would take off.

That's a great analysis. Cox is done after this year, IIRC. Are you applying for the job?;)

[blazindw]

Anybody in DC going to the games against the Nats? Me and a bunch of friends (including my roommate who is a huge Braves fan) will be going tomorrow.

[BlueDevilBaby]

Anybody in DC going to the games against the Nats? Me and a bunch of friends (including my roommate who is a huge Braves fan) will be going tomorrow.

I'm going tonight. Looking forward to a Nats sweep and keeping the Braves in the cellar.;)

[blazindw]

I'm going tonight. Looking forward to a Nats sweep and keeping the Braves in the cellar.;)

By tomorrow, I meant tonight. I was also there. Good game by the Nats. Shaky defense in the 1st but displayed some hitting and just took the Braves out of it.

[BlueDevilBaby]

Arrived to see the last couple outs of the top of the first. Braves missed an opportunity to do a lot of damage. Livo is crafty and I'm glad so far that he's back with the Nats.

Heyward is something else. What a quick swing. I had no doubt he was going to connect on a sub-par Livo fastball and send it out.

[devildeac]

Braves lose! Braves lose!

4 lousy hits last PM. Several players backing into the Mendoza line again.:o

[northernduke]

OK, at least we were able to sweep the Brew Crew and get w/in 2 games of .500. Offense is showing some signs of life but we need some consistency going forward or it will be a long season.

[devildeac]

OK, at least we were able to sweep the Brew Crew and get w/in 2 games of .500. Offense is showing some signs of life but we need some consistency going forward or it will be a long season.

That was encouraging. Lowe with an ERA under 6 now :rolleyes:. But we gotta do better than a sub-.200 lead-off hitter and other Mendoza-like averages sprinkled throughout the batting order.

[COYS]

Better still against the D-backs today (anyone else hate that they've officially shortened their name?). Hooray for Prado. He may not walk much, but he just seems to keep hitting. Hopefully Escobar and McCann will get it going to bring some consistency back to the lineup. Hinske looks to be an everyday player more or less for a bit with Diaz on the DL. We took care of two teams that were struggling. Let's see if we can keep it going against the Mets. Nothing to do but keep on trying to win more games and build some momentum.

[Jarhead]

For the last dozen or so games they have been playing .600 ball, and they have climbed out of the basement. This series against the Mets should help them climb a little higher, and with aches and pains healing the Braves could be my heroes again. I sure feel comfortable when Hudson is pitching. Two doubles, an RBI, and 8 innings of top notch pitching. Give that man a raise.

[devildeac]

Braves reach .500 last PM after a W over the Central Division leading Reds and Kawakami lowers his ERA from infinity to <5 with a nice 5 hit, 0 ER 5 or 6 inning performance (from memory, not looking at stats now). Wagner gets a BS in the 9th and Heyward bails him out for the W in the bottom of the 9th with an RBI double. They still have 2 guys below the Mendoza line but smacked 11 hits out in the victory. Hope?

[JasonEvans]

At 12-6, the Braves have the best home record in the NL and are second only to the Yankees 13-5 home record in all of baseball. They have played 4 more road games than home games right now so their record may be even better than it looks.

The 8-14 mark on the road must be improved, but the team is certainly looking better than it did a few weeks ago.

--Jason "Hayward is everything they said he would be... wow!" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Ummm, this team is starting to develop a reputation as the comeback kids. I mean, 7 runs in the 9th inning (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap;_ylt=And2l13wsyIply9tPSBFOo8RvLYF?gid=300520 115)?!?!?! Capped off by a grand slam that tips off a glove and could have been caught!! Wow!

--Jason "loved seeing Conrad think he was out and then celebrate his walk-off" Evans

[Jarhead]

Ummm, this team is starting to develop a reputation as the comeback kids. I mean, 7 runs in the 9th inning (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap;_ylt=And2l13wsyIply9tPSBFOo8RvLYF?gid=300520 115)?!?!?! Capped off by a grand slam that tips off a glove and could have been caught!! Wow!

--Jason "loved seeing Conrad think he was out and then celebrate his walk-off" Evans

I thought he caught it, too. I had just turned on the TV to check how bad the game turned out. It probably would not have ended the way it did if I hadn't done some yard work. It seemed a sensible thing to do instead of wasting time on a losing cause. It was a good afternoon what with all that work I did, and the Braves won, the Braves won.

That gets them well out of the basement, and they are now 8-2 for the last ten games. That stat has been 7-3 for the last several games, and it was 6-4 for a while. They have been playing well over .600 for some time now, and the shadow of the long losing road trip is beginning to fade. They have a six game road trip starting today at the Pirates followed by the Marlins. Then they return home for another three game series against the Pirates. This will be a telling week coming up. I remain worried about Chipper.

[devildeac]

Stunning.

[northernduke]

Talk about a great time to hit your fifth career HR!

Didn't get to see the game, but the highlights were superb!

[Jarhead]

Talk about a great time to hit your fifth career HR!

Didn't get to see the game, but the highlights were superb!

I didn't get to see tonights game, either. In Pittsburgh they beat the Pirates 7-0 on 8 innings of Tim Hudson's 3 hit pitching. Tim also go a hit and an rbi. I'm so happy... :o Sorry, I got a little emotional there.

[northernduke]

I didn't get to see tonights game, either. In Pittsburgh they beat the Pirates 7-0 on 8 innings of Tim Hudson's 3 hit pitching. Tim also go a hit and an rbi. I'm so happy... :o Sorry, I got a little emotional there.

Stating the obvious here, but having Tim on the mound is a huge asset for us. I say that not only because he is a very, very good pitcher, but because he is an elite athlete. He's always a threat to put the ball in at and isn't afraid to try and leg out an infiled hit or a double.

[JasonEvans]

Stating the obvious here, but having Tim on the mound is a huge asset for us. I say that not only because he is a very, very good pitcher, but because he is an elite athlete. He's always a threat to put the ball in at and isn't afraid to try and leg out an infiled hit or a double.

Hudson has hit .300 over the past 2+ seasons. He is a great asset on the mound and at the plate.

-Jason

[Jarhead]

Hudson has hit .300 over the past 2+ seasons. He is a great asset on the mound and at the plate.

-Jason

Reminds me of the old days. You know -- Maddox, Glavine, Smoltz. They seemed to know how to use a bat.

[JasonEvans]

Shhhhhh, don't tell anyone but the Braves are only 2.5 games behind the Phils.

--Jason "I'll keep it quiet if you do ;)" Evans

[DUKIECB]

Shhhhhh, don't tell anyone but the Braves are only 2.5 games behind the Phils.

--Jason "I'll keep it quiet if you do ;)" Evans

You didn't hear it from me but it's down to a game and a half.:)

[Olympic Fan]

Wow, going into this weekend's games, the NL East is ridiculous -- the Braves are just 1.5 games out of first ... but the Marlins and Nats are tied for last just 1.5 games behind the Braves (and just 3.0 behind the Phillies.

By Monday, they could be scrambled in any order.

At any rate, it's great to be playing well again.

[JasonEvans]

I really need you to keep this to yourself, but the Braves have won 5 in a row now and are a half a game behind the Phils. They've won 15 of their past 19 and have the best home record in all of baseball.

But, seriously, I need all of you to not breath a word about this to anyone.

--Jason "3 games with the Phils and then 11-straight on the road... if this team is for real, that will be the time to show it" Evans

[Olympic Fan]

As of Monday afternoon -- a 9-3 victory over the Phils, keyed by an early home run by Chipper and a strong start by Tommy Hansen, just moved the Braves past the Phillies into first place in the NL East,

Braves 29-22 ... Phils 28-22 -- up half a game.

The division is still a longjam -- the Nationals in last, just four games out.

Hamels against Hudson tomorrow at 7 p.m. The game will be nationally televised on ESPN.

[Olympic Fan]

The Braves completed the sweep of the slumping Phillies with a 2-1 win this afternoon -- stretching their lead in the NL East to 2.5 games.

Best performance of the season by Lowe (eight innings one one-run ball) and a save by Wagner. Scored the winning run in the bottom of the ninth with a two-out RBI single by Infante (who replaced an injured Chipper earlier in the game).

That's eight straight wins for the Bravos ... it's like days of old!

[Big Pappa]

The Braves completed the sweep of the slumping Phillies with a 2-1 win this afternoon -- stretching their lead in the NL East to 2.5 games.

Best performance of the season by Lowe (eight innings one one-run ball) and a save by Wagner. Scored the winning run in the bottom of the ninth with a two-out RBI single by Infante (who replaced an injured Chipper earlier in the game).

That's eight straight wins for the Bravos ... it's like days of old!

Lowe really pitched a great game today, a pretty easy save for Wags.

[northernduke]

It'd be great to finish no worse than 6-5 on our upcoming road trip! It's been quite some time since we had a multiple game lead this late in the season.

[JasonEvans]

It'd be great to finish no worse than 6-5 on our upcoming road trip! It's been quite some time since we had a multiple game lead this late in the season.

At 19-6, the Braves have the best home record in baseball. Very impressive.

But, at 12-16, their road record leaves something to be desired. The 11-game road trip starts with 4 against the Dodgers, who are very good at home, then 4 with the DBacks, who are not good anywhere, and finishes with 3 at Minnesota, another good home team.

--Jason "I agree that 6-5 in a nice goal for this set" Evans

[Jarhead]

At 19-6, the Braves have the best home record in baseball. Very impressive.

But, at 12-16, their road record leaves something to be desired. The 11-game road trip starts with 4 against the Dodgers, who are very good at home, then 4 with the DBacks, who are not good anywhere, and finishes with 3 at Minnesota, another good home team.

--Jason "I agree that 6-5 in a nice goal for this set" Evans

Ssshh... don't say any thing more. I've been working on this karma thing for a few weeks now, and it may be working. Don't jinx me now.:o

[JasonEvans]

This whole Troy Glaus thing might just work out after all.

He is now hitting .283 with 10 homers and a league-leading 42 RBIs. Not bad for a dude everyone thought was washed up and to whom the Braves are paying less than $2 million this year. WOW, biggest veteran bargain in baseball. Of course, I suspect he is going to earn a lot of the $2.25 million in performance and roster bonuses that are part of the contract. Still, you generally get a backup middle infielder for $4 million a year, not one of the top offensive 1B in the NL!

Oh, by the way, the Braves won again tonight. 4-3 over the Dodgers. It was a road win against a high-quality team.

Glaus, Wagner, Saito... we all freaked out about the aged roster moves. Ummm, maybe Frank Wren knew what he was doing.

--Jason "who is having a better season so far, Glaus or Wagner?" Evans

[northernduke]

I for one am pleased with Glaus' performance thus far. Slow start, but he's turning it on now. Kind of like Teixiera once was for us...

Like I said at the beginning of the season, 25 HRs and 90+ RBIs from our 1B would be huge.

Can Infante play center field? I kid, I kid...

[Jarhead]

ESPN Magazine has a story up on Chipper Jones (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/draft2010/columns/story?columnist=kurkjian_tim&id=5249761) that's worth a read. I remember when he was drafted, and I have enjoyed watching him play ever since. What a nice article, totally non-controversial.

[Olympic Fan]

ESPN Magazine has a story up on Chipper Jones (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/draft2010/columns/story?columnist=kurkjian_tim&id=5249761) that's worth a read. I remember when he was drafted, and I have enjoyed watching him play ever since. What a nice article, totally non-controversial.

Great article ... a great summary of what a great player Chipper has been for his career. The only thing I wish could be explored a little more was the decision to draft Chipper No. 1 instead of Todd Van Poppel. As I remember it, the consensus was the Von Poppel was the top pick, but he didn't want to play for such a dismal franchise, so he claimed that he wouldn't sign with the Braves -- insisting that he would go to college instead. In the end, he was drafted later in the first round by Oakland, then riding high with the Bash brothers.

Van Poppel didn't mind signing with the A's and except for a token appearance in 1991, he reached the bigs in 1993 -- the same year Chipper essentially made a token appearance. He was 6-6 that season and won seven games (with 10 losses) the next year. That was the high-level mark of his career -- he finished with 40 wins.

Chipper, as Tim says, is a first ballot Hall of Fame. He calls him among the top five third-baseman of all time. I hope that view holds -- I keep saying that Chipper has the best OPS of any third-baseman in history (that will change if Alex Rodriguex plays a couple of more years at third ... right now, he still has more career games at short). Chipper also has the No. 2 career OPS-plus (a better historical messure) among third-basemen (behind Mike Schmidt).

Is he top five alltime? Well, he's always been a good defender, but not a great one. And, as I said, he's the second-best offensive player at third in baseball history (at the moment). He's played on as many championship teams as anybody on this list. He's won just one MVP, but he's finioshed in the top 10 six times (and nine times in the top 12).

I'll save the research for win he retires, but off the top of my head, I'd say that Mike Schmidt and Brooks Robinson almost certainly rate ahead of him. But I can see Chipper in the next group with Eddie Mathews, George Brett, Pie Traynor. I never know how to rate Jimmy Collins, the greatest of the deadball third basemen (when the position was regarded much as we regard shortstops today).

But top five seems reasonable. It would be great for Chipper to close his career by helping the Braves go out a winner one more time (last night's 7-run rally in the seventh -- two more in the eighth -- was great to wake up ... that's 2-1 on the road trip!).

[JasonEvans]

On ESPN today Tim Kurkjian said he regarded Chipper as the best #1 pick in MLB draft history. He clarified this by saying the fact that Chipper had played his entire career with the team that drafted him made him such a great draft pick. He also said that he rates Chipper as the 5th best 3B in baseball history and a lock to be a first-ballot HOFer.

So far, the Braves are 2-2 on this challenging and long road trip. Not bad. I'll take it.

--Jason "boy, would I love for Chipper to get on a run!" Evans

[northernduke]

I'm satisfied with a split on the road against a team that is 14-5 in their last 19 games. Granted taking one of the 2 1-run losses would have been great, but I am happy with the start of the road trip.

[rasputin]

Great article ... a great summary of what a great player Chipper has been for his career. The only thing I wish could be explored a little more was the decision to draft Chipper No. 1 instead of Todd Van Poppel. As I remember it, the consensus was the Von Poppel was the top pick, but he didn't want to play for such a dismal franchise, so he claimed that he wouldn't sign with the Braves -- insisting that he would go to college instead. In the end, he was drafted later in the first round by Oakland, then riding high with the Bash brothers.

Van Poppel didn't mind signing with the A's and except for a token appearance in 1991, he reached the bigs in 1993 -- the same year Chipper essentially made a token appearance. He was 6-6 that season and won seven games (with 10 losses) the next year. That was the high-level mark of his career -- he finished with 40 wins.

Chipper, as Tim says, is a first ballot Hall of Fame. He calls him among the top five third-baseman of all time. I hope that view holds -- I keep saying that Chipper has the best OPS of any third-baseman in history (that will change if Alex Rodriguex plays a couple of more years at third ... right now, he still has more career games at short). Chipper also has the No. 2 career OPS-plus (a better historical messure) among third-basemen (behind Mike Schmidt).

Is he top five alltime? Well, he's always been a good defender, but not a great one. And, as I said, he's the second-best offensive player at third in baseball history (at the moment). He's played on as many championship teams as anybody on this list. He's won just one MVP, but he's finioshed in the top 10 six times (and nine times in the top 12).

I'll save the research for win he retires, but off the top of my head, I'd say that Mike Schmidt and Brooks Robinson almost certainly rate ahead of him. But I can see Chipper in the next group with Eddie Mathews, George Brett, Pie Traynor. I never know how to rate Jimmy Collins, the greatest of the deadball third basemen (when the position was regarded much as we regard shortstops today).

But top five seems reasonable. It would be great for Chipper to close his career by helping the Braves go out a winner one more time (last night's 7-run rally in the seventh -- two more in the eighth -- was great to wake up ... that's 2-1 on the road trip!).

Schmidt and Brett have to be ranked 1 and 2, and in that order. After that is where I see the cluster of Brooks, Eddie Mathews, Traynor, Chipper.

It is hard to rate Jimmy Collins. It should be kept in mind, when thinking about a guy like Collins (or, more importantly, a guy like Traynor), that until the double play became entrenched as an important aspect of defense, second base was regarded as an offense-first position, and third base as defense-first, the reverse of what it is today.

All of this, as is pointed out above, depends on A-Rod being still a shortstop in historical terms. And it should be remembered that Chipper hasn't always played third.

[Olympic Fan]

Schmidt and Brett have to be ranked 1 and 2, and in that order. After that is where I see the cluster of Brooks, Eddie Mathews, Traynor, Chipper.

It is hard to rate Jimmy Collins. It should be kept in mind, when thinking about a guy like Collins (or, more importantly, a guy like Traynor), that until the double play became entrenched as an important aspect of defense, second base was regarded as an offense-first position, and third base as defense-first, the reverse of what it is today.

All of this, as is pointed out above, depends on A-Rod being still a shortstop in historical terms. And it should be remembered that Chipper hasn't always played third.

I have a hard time understanding why you rate Brett as clearly superior to Chipper and Brooks.

Head-to-head, Chipper is superior to Brett in every significant batting category: average (.306 to .305), OBP (.406 to .369), SLUG .537 to .487), OPS (.943 to .855) and OPS plus (143 to 135).

Brett won one MVP and finished in the top 10 five times. Chipper won one MVP and finished in the top 10 SIX times.

Brett had three seasons with better than a 1.000 OPS ... Chipper had five seasons with better than a 1.000 OPS.

Brett was a slightly better fielder (one gold glove ... Chipper actually has a better career fielding average at third).

Yes, Chipper played a few games other than third ... so did Brett. In fact, Chipper has so far played 1,730 at third to 1,692 for Brett. Chipper had 364 games in the outfield (and 49 at SS). Brett had 506 games as a DH and 461 at first base.

I don't see how anybody can look at those numbers and think Brett is No. 2 on the third-base list. His very slight edge defensively can't come close to overcoming Chipper's much bigger edge offensively (and the fact that he played more games at third).

If you're going to try and use Brett's slight defensive edge to rate him over Chipper, then I don't see how you can't use Brooks Robinson's much larger defensive edge to rate him over Brett. And for the record, Brooks beats them both in the MVP voting with one MVP and seven top 10 finishes.

Don't get me wrong, George Brett was a great player. But I can't see how he rates No. 2 on the alltime list.

I certainly do agree with the point that A-Roid is the wildcard in the mix. He's one of those guys like Musial (LF or 1B?) and Banks (SS or 1B?) who split their career at two positions -- rare for a great player. Right now, A-Roid has 1272 at SS and 921 at third. The usual practice is to rate a player at the position he played most. Right now, he's on the shortstop list ... but we'll see where he ends up.

[rasputin]

I have a hard time understanding why you rate Brett as clearly superior to Chipper and Brooks.

Head-to-head, Chipper is superior to Brett in every significant batting category: average (.306 to .305), OBP (.406 to .369), SLUG .537 to .487), OPS (.943 to .855) and OPS plus (143 to 135).

Brett won one MVP and finished in the top 10 five times. Chipper won one MVP and finished in the top 10 SIX times.

Brett had three seasons with better than a 1.000 OPS ... Chipper had five seasons with better than a 1.000 OPS.

Brett was a slightly better fielder (one gold glove ... Chipper actually has a better career fielding average at third).

Yes, Chipper played a few games other than third ... so did Brett. In fact, Chipper has so far played 1,730 at third to 1,692 for Brett. Chipper had 364 games in the outfield (and 49 at SS). Brett had 506 games as a DH and 461 at first base.

I don't see how anybody can look at those numbers and think Brett is No. 2 on the third-base list. His very slight edge defensively can't come close to overcoming Chipper's much bigger edge offensively (and the fact that he played more games at third).

If you're going to try and use Brett's slight defensive edge to rate him over Chipper, then I don't see how you can't use Brooks Robinson's much larger defensive edge to rate him over Brett. And for the record, Brooks beats them both in the MVP voting with one MVP and seven top 10 finishes.

Don't get me wrong, George Brett was a great player. But I can't see how he rates No. 2 on the alltime list.

I certainly do agree with the point that A-Roid is the wildcard in the mix. He's one of those guys like Musial (LF or 1B?) and Banks (SS or 1B?) who split their career at two positions -- rare for a great player. Right now, A-Roid has 1272 at SS and 921 at third. The usual practice is to rate a player at the position he played most. Right now, he's on the shortstop list ... but we'll see where he ends up.

As to Brett versus the others, that's my seat-of-the-pants analysis. After your post, however, I checked them on baseball-reference.com; the career Wins Above Replacement value is listed as Brett, 85, Chipper 78, Brooks 69.1.

But that's not why I listed them that way. Brett was a dominant player, and clearly the best on his team. I don't think you can say the same about either Chipper or Brooks. Brett was the face of the Kansas City Royals, a very good team at the time. I don't see Chipper as the face of those Braves teams (not with that pitching staff), and I don't see Brooks as the face of the O's, at least not once Frank Robinson arrived. (Yes, I know, Brooks was an MVP in 1964 or thereabouts).

One thing that muddies the discussion is these players' performance in postseason play: outstanding in the case of both Brooks and Brett, good in Chipper's case. Brooks' 1970 WS is legendary, and he was just as good in the ALCS that year. Brett once had three HR in an ALCS game (which his team lost).

As an aside, there are a couple of other split career at multiple position guys to consider in conncetion with the last part, although neither is of the caliber of a Musial: Pete Rose and Craig Biggio.

[Olympic Fan]

As to Brett versus the others, that's my seat-of-the-pants analysis. After your post, however, I checked them on baseball-reference.com; the career Wins Above Replacement value is listed as Brett, 85, Chipper 78, Brooks 69.1.

But that's not why I listed them that way. Brett was a dominant player, and clearly the best on his team. I don't think you can say the same about either Chipper or Brooks. Brett was the face of the Kansas City Royals, a very good team at the time. I don't see Chipper as the face of those Braves teams (not with that pitching staff), and I don't see Brooks as the face of the O's, at least not once Frank Robinson arrived. (Yes, I know, Brooks was an MVP in 1964 or thereabouts).

One thing that muddies the discussion is these players' performance in postseason play: outstanding in the case of both Brooks and Brett, good in Chipper's case. Brooks' 1970 WS is legendary, and he was just as good in the ALCS that year. Brett once had three HR in an ALCS game (which his team lost).

I see where you are coming from -- although the problem with using wins above replacement to justify putting Brett ahead of Chipper (not to mention Brooks) is that then you also have to concede that Brett is only fourth on the WAR list among third basemen (fifth if you count A-Roid). Do you really want to rank him behind Eddie Matthews (No. 2 on the WAR list) and Wade Boggs (No. 3)?

I've never been a big fan of WAR as a measurement of greatness. I mean as great as Stan Musial was, did he have more career value than Ted Williams, Mickey Mantle and Lou Gehrig? Does Mel Ott really rank ahead of Jimmie Foxx and Joe DiMaggio? Yaz ahead of Clemente? Phil Niekro ahead of Warren Spahn ... also ahead of Bob Gibson and Christy Mathewson?

I think it's an interesting, but very limited tool.

I don't see where claiming a player as "the face of the franchise" increases his value. Maybe postseason performance plays a factor, but you can't overrate it, otherwise you have to pick Yankees for all the top spots and dismiss postseason failures like Ted Williams. Brett was great in postseason in a limited sample -- Chipper's teams were in postseason a lot more often and had more success. His postseason stats are very good (.871 OPS) and his postseason team record 10-10 is a lot better than Brett's 3-6 postseason series record.

Was Chipper the face of the Braves? I agree that those teams -- which won a heck of a lot more than Brett's Royals -- were built on that great pitching trio of Maddox-Glavine-Smoltz. But it's equally clear that Chipper was the best everyday player on the best national league team of his era.

His measurable accomplishments are all better than Brett's. He was (slightly) but clearly more favored by the MVP voters of his era.

The only argument for Brett -- the WAR measure -- demands that you put Mathews and Boggs ahead of both of them. I can't see that.

[rasputin]

I see where you are coming from -- although the problem with using wins above replacement to justify putting Brett ahead of Chipper (not to mention Brooks) is that then you also have to concede that Brett is only fourth on the WAR list among third basemen (fifth if you count A-Roid). Do you really want to rank him behind Eddie Matthews (No. 2 on the WAR list) and Wade Boggs (No. 3)?

I've never been a big fan of WAR as a measurement of greatness. I mean as great as Stan Musial was, did he have more career value than Ted Williams, Mickey Mantle and Lou Gehrig? Does Mel Ott really rank ahead of Jimmie Foxx and Joe DiMaggio? Yaz ahead of Clemente? Phil Niekro ahead of Warren Spahn ... also ahead of Bob Gibson and Christy Mathewson?

I think it's an interesting, but very limited tool.

I don't see where claiming a player as "the face of the franchise" increases his value. Maybe postseason performance plays a factor, but you can't overrate it, otherwise you have to pick Yankees for all the top spots and dismiss postseason failures like Ted Williams. Brett was great in postseason in a limited sample -- Chipper's teams were in postseason a lot more often and had more success. His postseason stats are very good (.871 OPS) and his postseason team record 10-10 is a lot better than Brett's 3-6 postseason series record.

Was Chipper the face of the Braves? I agree that those teams -- which won a heck of a lot more than Brett's Royals -- were built on that great pitching trio of Maddox-Glavine-Smoltz. But it's equally clear that Chipper was the best everyday player on the best national league team of his era.

His measurable accomplishments are all better than Brett's. He was (slightly) but clearly more favored by the MVP voters of his era.

The only argument for Brett -- the WAR measure -- demands that you put Mathews and Boggs ahead of both of them. I can't see that.

I don't see the WAR measure as the "only" argument for Brett. And I agree that it is a limited tool, and I think it's because it over-rewards for longevity. That's how you get to a result like Ott over DiMaggio, Yaz over Clemente, and Knucksie over Gibson (all of which are absurd).

I also understand that we shouldn't overvalue postseason performance, especially in the case of someone like Ted Williams where the sample size is so small.

Anyway, I'll still take Brett. And I also think that the gap is pretty wide between Mike Schmidt and everybody else in this discussion (unless you get to A-Rod).

[Olympic Fan]

I don't see the WAR measure as the "only" argument for Brett. And I agree that it is a limited tool, and I think it's because it over-rewards for longevity. That's how you get to a result like Ott over DiMaggio, Yaz over Clemente, and Knucksie over Gibson (all of which are absurd).

I also understand that we shouldn't overvalue postseason performance, especially in the case of someone like Ted Williams where the sample size is so small.

Anyway, I'll still take Brett. And I also think that the gap is pretty wide between Mike Schmidt and everybody else in this discussion (unless you get to A-Rod).

We'll just agree to disagree ... actually, the only thing I was disagreeing with was your assumption that Brett was a clearcut No. 2 on then list. I like Brooks for that spot because his defense was light years beyond the other guys in the discussion (except Schmidt and he's No. 1 anyway).

That's why I also will still keep Schmidt at No. 1 even after A-Roid plays enough games to be a third baseman. Offensively, they are very close (once you make era adjustments). Defensively, Schmidt gets the edge. He was a superb defensive player, just a notch below Brooks.

A-Roid on the other hand, was a superb defensive shortstop, but he's been quite average at third. Considering the fact that he'll also have played barely half his career at third, I think Schmidt stays at No. 1 on the list -- although I agree that the gap narrows.

[Olympic Fan]

Well, yesterday the bats came through in the ninth. The Braves' bullpen blew a 7-2 lead at Arizona, but the offense added four in the ninth and Atlanta evened its road trip record to 4-4. Amazingly, Atlanta has stretched its lead in the NL East to 2.5 games -- although they are still up just one in the loss column on thje Phils (but have four more wins) and two on the Mets (with three more wins).

However, the next six games will be really tough -- three in Minnesota against a pretty good Twins team, followed by three back in Atlanta (finally!) against a very good Tampa team.

After that, the schedule eases off as KC comes to town.

I'd love to see tonight's matchup -- Hudson vs. Liriano.

[COYS]

Well, yesterday the bats came through in the ninth. The Braves' bullpen blew a 7-2 lead at Arizona, but the offense added four in the ninth and Atlanta evened its road trip record to 4-4. Amazingly, Atlanta has stretched its lead in the NL East to 2.5 games -- although they are still up just one in the loss column on thje Phils (but have four more wins) and two on the Mets (with three more wins).

However, the next six games will be really tough -- three in Minnesota against a pretty good Twins team, followed by three back in Atlanta (finally!) against a very good Tampa team.

After that, the schedule eases off as KC comes to town.

I'd love to see tonight's matchup -- Hudson vs. Liriano.

I would be very happy going 3-3 over the next six games. We've been a great home team, so hopefully we can keep that up as we will finally be getting a few more games back in Atlanta . . . oh yeah, and an off day wouldn't hurt, either.

[Olympic Fan]

I know that the Braves are currently atop the NL East, a game and a half ahead of the Mets and three and a half up on the Phillies (just two in the loss column, but a whopping five in the win column).

That surpasses all my preseason expections and with 40 percent of the season gone, it can't be considered a fluke. Some things have gone very well for the Braves (Haywood, Glaus, Prado, Wagner), but some have not (Chipper and McCann can hit better, Jurrjens has been out, Kawakami is winless in the rotation, Escobar has been hurt and/or below par, McLouth is under the Mendoza line). I can see where this team could get even better over the last 60 percent of the season.

The Braves are winding up a make-or-break 11-game road trip today and whatever happens in the final game at Minnesota, they'll still be in first place when they come home next week. We all said that they needed to go 6-5 on this trip ... they are 5-5 going into today's game.

So, obviously, winning the NL East is the first option.

But we all know that in this day and age, winning a wild card is essentially as good as winning a division. Right now, the Braves are engaged in a three-team battle for the NL East title (and the Marlins and Nats aren't all that far back). Finish first ... great.

But what if the Phillies -- still probably the most talented team in the division -- get hot and the Braves finish second in that NL East competition? What's the competition for the wild card look like?

Remember, Atlanta is 36-27 going into today's game.

The NL Central has two strong teams battling for the top. The Reds are in first and the Cardinals (at 34-28) are the same as the Mets and a game-and-a-half behind the Braves.

There are three contenders in the NL West. One will win the division ... the next best will be in the wild card race.

In fact, if the season ended this morning, Atlanta (36-27), Cincinnati (36-27)and the San Diego Padres (37-25) would be division champs and the LA Dodgers (36-26) would get the wild card, leaving the Mets (34-28), the Cards (34-28) and the Giants (34-27) on the outside looking in.

Certainly, there is plenty of time for those teams to make up grown. And the future is not forseeable -- everybody who had San Diego with the best record in the NL at this point, raise your hands!

[COYS]

I know that the Braves are currently atop the NL East, a game and a half ahead of the Mets and three and a half up on the Phillies (just two in the loss column, but a whopping five in the win column).

That surpasses all my preseason expections and with 40 percent of the season gone, it can't be considered a fluke. Some things have gone very well for the Braves (Haywood, Glaus, Prado, Wagner), but some have not (Chipper and McCann can hit better, Jurrjens has been out, Kawakami is winless in the rotation, Escobar has been hurt and/or below par, McLouth is under the Mendoza line). I can see where this team could get even better over the last 60 percent of the season.

The Braves are winding up a make-or-break 11-game road trip today and whatever happens in the final game at Minnesota, they'll still be in first place when they come home next week. We all said that they needed to go 6-5 on this trip ... they are 5-5 going into today's game.

So, obviously, winning the NL East is the first option.

But we all know that in this day and age, winning a wild card is essentially as good as winning a division. Right now, the Braves are engaged in a three-team battle for the NL East title (and the Marlins and Nats aren't all that far back). Finish first ... great.

But what if the Phillies -- still probably the most talented team in the division -- get hot and the Braves finish second in that NL East competition? What's the competition for the wild card look like?

Remember, Atlanta is 36-27 going into today's game.

The NL Central has two strong teams battling for the top. The Reds are in first and the Cardinals (at 34-28) are the same as the Mets and a game-and-a-half behind the Braves.

There are three contenders in the NL West. One will win the division ... the next best will be in the wild card race.

In fact, if the season ended this morning, Atlanta (36-27), Cincinnati (36-27)and the San Diego Padres (37-25) would be division champs and the LA Dodgers (36-26) would get the wild card, leaving the Mets (34-28), the Cards (34-28) and the Giants (34-27) on the outside looking in.

Certainly, there is plenty of time for those teams to make up grown. And the future is not forseeable -- everybody who had San Diego with the best record in the NL at this point, raise your hands!

I will be very interested to see what happens to the rotation when Jurrjens comes back in a few weeks. Medlen has been impressive ever since he moved to the bullpen to make way for Hanson in the rotation way back in last June. This season, save for one bad game, his success has translated from the bullpen to the mound as a starter. His WHIP, strikeout rate, and walk rate are are all significantly better than either Kawakami's or Lowe's. Granted, Lowe isn't going anywhere. And he has shown that he can still put together some big games even if his best days are behind him. While I think Kawakami has been the victim of bad luck to make his season seem worse than it actually has been, Medlen has been out pitching him this season. Kawakami can pitch better, I'm sure, but apart from his experience (most of which is in the Japanese Leagues), he hasn't really shown much more than Medlen. I still think Medlen goes back to the pen, but I wonder what happens if Kawakami continues to struggle. Also, if Medlen strings together a few more starts like the one he had today, is it time to more seriously consider making Medlen a fixture in the rotation?

[Olympic Fan]

Braves obviously completed the road trip 6-5 with a win Sunday ... nice job by Medlin on the mound and Glaus at the plate.

Interesting question to think about -- when Jurrjens comes back in a week or so, do you bump Kawakami or Medlin from the rotation.

Another question -- we're getting to the point where contenders buy a piece or two for the stretch run and the teams that are out of it sell their end-of-contract stars for prospects. Should the Braves be in the buying market? I wouldn't mind seeing them try and pick up a top CF -- McLouth was slumping badly before he was hurt ... Blanco and Melky are mediocre.

I was wondering if Jordan Schafer might be ready to come back, but I checked and he's hitting .224 in AAA.

So I'd be in favor of a deal -- just don't give up the farm (Andrus, Feliz and Saltalamacchia for one year of Teixeira .. and that didn't even help win the Division!).

I did see one stat that I guess I should have known, but didn't. At this point, the Braves have the worst road/home imbalance in baseball -- not records, but schedule.

Atlanta has played 39 games on the road (18-21) and just 25 (19-6) at home. By contrast, the Mets have played 34 home games (24-10) and just 29 (11-18) on the road. The Phils have played 29 at home (16-13) and 32 on the road (16-16).

That means that the rest of the way, the schedule is heavily weighted toward home games -- 56 home games and just 42 road games left. That should be a HUGE advantage down the stretch.

Plus, NO MORE WEST COAST ROAD TRIPS!!!!

[COYS]

Braves obviously completed the road trip 6-5 with a win Sunday ... nice job by Medlin on the mound and Glaus at the plate.

Interesting question to think about -- when Jurrjens comes back in a week or so, do you bump Kawakami or Medlin from the rotation.

Another question -- we're getting to the point where contenders buy a piece or two for the stretch run and the teams that are out of it sell their end-of-contract stars for prospects. Should the Braves be in the buying market? I wouldn't mind seeing them try and pick up a top CF -- McLouth was slumping badly before he was hurt ... Blanco and Melky are mediocre.

I was wondering if Jordan Schafer might be ready to come back, but I checked and he's hitting .224 in AAA.

So I'd be in favor of a deal -- just don't give up the farm (Andrus, Feliz and Saltalamacchia for one year of Teixeira .. and that didn't even help win the Division!).

I did see one stat that I guess I should have known, but didn't. At this point, the Braves have the worst road/home imbalance in baseball -- not records, but schedule.

Atlanta has played 39 games on the road (18-21) and just 25 (19-6) at home. By contrast, the Mets have played 34 home games (24-10) and just 29 (11-18) on the road. The Phils have played 29 at home (16-13) and 32 on the road (16-16).

That means that the rest of the way, the schedule is heavily weighted toward home games -- 56 home games and just 42 road games left. That should be a HUGE advantage down the stretch.

Plus, NO MORE WEST COAST ROAD TRIPS!!!!

Haha, I pointed this stat out to my friend who is a huge mets fan. He keeps on tellingme that the braves can't possible continue to win consistently. I pointed out that the braves and the mets have played opposite schedules. The mets have been home a lot and the braves have been road warriors. Despite that imbalance, the braves boast the best run differential in the NL East, have scored the most runs, and have a lot of games at turner field to look forward to where we are currently 19 and 6. The braves are in it for the long haul.

As for center field, I'm not sure who the braves have to trade. We're a little low on major league ready position prospects. I doubt we give up any pitching. Of our regular players, Neither Melky nor Nate would give us much on return. Most of our bench is too valuable vs. What they could get us. It's a bit wild, but I could see escobar as part of a trade for the right player, but even that is extremely unlikely. Maybe Kawakami? Probably not with his contract. I'd love to see the braves make a move, but something tells me if we do anything it probably won't be for a big name.

[JasonEvans]

Back in April, I noted (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?p=390442#post390442) that the Braves had saved money specifically for a trade. When they got rid of JV's salary and did not take back much salary in return and then they signed Glaus for a big bargain, the folks who run the Braves said they were doing it so they could go out and get someone good at the trade deadline.

The way they put it, if they banked $5 or 6 million in salary at the start of the season it would allow them to acquire a $10-12 million player at mid-season. Makes sense to me.

--Jason "a CF would seem to be the biggest need right now" Evans

[devildeac]

Nice call by whomever predicted/wished for a 6-5 road trip. Well done. And that was with three 1 run losses in which they couldn't hit worth a wanker, IIRC.

[COYS]

Back in April, I noted (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?p=390442#post390442) that the Braves had saved money specifically for a trade. When they got rid of JV's salary and did not take back much salary in return and then they signed Glaus for a big bargain, the folks who run the Braves said they were doing it so they could go out and get someone good at the trade deadline.

The way they put it, if they banked $5 or 6 million in salary at the start of the season it would allow them to acquire a $10-12 million player at mid-season. Makes sense to me.

--Jason "a CF would seem to be the biggest need right now" Evans

Jason, who do you think we go after and with what assets? I agree that the Braves have the money for a big trade. I'm just not sure what assets we would be willing to part with. This is not to say that we won't make a big trade. I just genuinely don't know what players we have to make a deal.

[dcarp23]

Jason, who do you think we go after and with what assets? I agree that the Braves have the money for a big trade. I'm just not sure what assets we would be willing to part with. This is not to say that we won't make a big trade. I just genuinely don't know what players we have to make a deal.

I'd imagine that this guy gets a lot of attention from a lot of teams, and he might make sense in Atlanta:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dejesda01.shtml

Though what the Braves really need is some home runs, which might make this guy an attractive target:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hartco01.shtml

Or, if his team hits the schnide (sp?) between now and July 31, this guy:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dunnad01.shtml

[Olympic Fan]

I'd imagine that this guy gets a lot of attention from a lot of teams, and he might make sense in Atlanta:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dejesda01.shtml

Though what the Braves really need is some home runs, which might make this guy an attractive target:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hartco01.shtml

Or, if his team hits the schnide (sp?) between now and July 31, this guy:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dunnad01.shtml

Not sure any of these three guys answer the need for a centerfielder -- DeJesus and Hart have played it, but are corner outfielders by trade. I agree that either would be an offensive upgrade in the OF, where only Haywood is above-average.

As for Dunn, I suspect there's little chance he gets dealt as long as the Nationals stay in the race -- especially not to a division rival. And he's definitely not a CFer.

I agree with COYS -- Atlanta doesn't have a lot of meat in their farm system. What that means is that they need to find high-salaried veteran, near the end of his contract with an aging team. Teams like that are always dumping such players to save money -- and saving the money is the main idea ... they usually accept second-rate prospects in return (as the Braves did when they go rid of Teixeira).

I was just looking at centerfielders on teams that are hopelessly out of the race -- I don't know what the contract situations are but Marlon Byrd of the Cubs would be great (134 OPS plus) ... he's in the first year of a three-year $15 deal. Is it too early for the Cubs to dump him?

Probably.

There are also two older CFs coming off the bench for out-of-contention teams that might help Atlanta down the stretch -- and might come cheap. Jim Edmonds is 40 years old, but has a 110 OPS plus in 121 ABs for the Brewers this season. He's played 21 games in CF and his range factor is still significantly above the NL average.

Then there's this backup outfielder with the White Sox. In his prime, he was one of the best power hitters in the game and was perhaps the greatest defensive centerfielder who ever lived (10 gold gloves by the age of 30). And he's just 33 years old. So far this season, he's hitting just .211 (147 ABs), but it's with power (10 home runs) -- he's a 109 OPS plus, which is better than any Brave outfielder other than Hinskie or Blanco, both in very limited duty.

I know he's not a star any longer, but even though he's only making $500,000, the White Sox are out of their race and might be willing to let him go for a mid-level prospect.

How about it ... if it worth bringing Andruw Jones back to Atlanta??

[dcarp23]

Not sure any of these three guys answer the need for a centerfielder -- DeJesus and Hart have played it, but are corner outfielders by trade. I agree that either would be an offensive upgrade in the OF, where only Haywood is above-average.

As for Dunn, I suspect there's little chance he gets dealt as long as the Nationals stay in the race -- especially not to a division rival. And he's definitely not a CFer.

I agree with COYS -- Atlanta doesn't have a lot of meat in their farm system. What that means is that they need to find high-salaried veteran, near the end of his contract with an aging team. Teams like that are always dumping such players to save money -- and saving the money is the main idea ... they usually accept second-rate prospects in return (as the Braves did when they go rid of Teixeira).

I was just looking at centerfielders on teams that are hopelessly out of the race -- I don't know what the contract situations are but Marlon Byrd of the Cubs would be great (134 OPS plus) ... he's in the first year of a three-year $15 deal. Is it too early for the Cubs to dump him?

Probably.

There are also two older CFs coming off the bench for out-of-contention teams that might help Atlanta down the stretch -- and might come cheap. Jim Edmonds is 40 years old, but has a 110 OPS plus in 121 ABs for the Brewers this season. He's played 21 games in CF and his range factor is still significantly above the NL average.

Then there's this backup outfielder with the White Sox. In his prime, he was one of the best power hitters in the game and was perhaps the greatest defensive centerfielder who ever lived (10 gold gloves by the age of 30). And he's just 33 years old. So far this season, he's hitting just .211 (147 ABs), but it's with power (10 home runs) -- he's a 109 OPS plus, which is better than any Brave outfielder other than Hinskie or Blanco, both in very limited duty.

I know he's not a star any longer, but even though he's only making $500,000, the White Sox are out of their race and might be willing to let him go for a mid-level prospect.

How about it ... if it worth bringing Andruw Jones back to Atlanta??

Interesting thoughts on Andruw--I had not thought of him at all.

I didn't focus on centerfielders because a) there aren't a ton of them and b) I think the Braves need an upgrade in left field as well, where there are more options, particularly with power. Hinske has been a great pickup for the club, but one has to think that he is likely to regress to the mean. Plus he is a great option to have off of the bench against right-handed arms down the stretch. It will be interesting to see when Diaz is able to return and what he is able to contribute.

[JasonEvans]

Bobby may not be alone in going out at the end of this season.

Chipper met with Bobby, Frank Wren, and others in Braves management today and is darn close to announcing his retirement (http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2010/06/15/jones-to-announce-hes-likely-leaning-to-retirement-after-2010/)at the end of this season.

Wait... update... Chipper is now said to be reconsidering (http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2010/06/15/chipper-decision-to-the-backburner-rays-to-the-front/) and has not made a final decision on retirment.

--Jason "there would be something poetic about Chipper and Bobby going out at the same time" Evans

[COYS]

Bobby may not be alone in going out at the end of this season.

Chipper met with Bobby, Frank Wren, and others in Braves management today and is darn close to announcing his retirement (http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2010/06/15/jones-to-announce-hes-likely-leaning-to-retirement-after-2010/)at the end of this season.

Wait... update... Chipper is now said to be reconsidering (http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2010/06/15/chipper-decision-to-the-backburner-rays-to-the-front/) and has not made a final decision on retirment.

--Jason "there would be something poetic about Chipper and Bobby going out at the same time" Evans

I will hate to see them go, but I know it's gotta happen sometime. Chipper has been excellent for the Braves. Between his production on the field and his willingness to restructure his contract to put the Braves in better financial situations you couldn't ask for a better star. I hope he can recapture just enough of his 2008 form to go on a big run and help lead the Braves in a playoff push so he can go out with the national recognition he deserves (that is, if he does decide to retire).

[Olympic Fan]

Great day for the Braves Saturday as Troy Glaus hits a walk-off home run to win in the bottom of the ninth against the Royals, while the Yankees beat the Mets and the Phillies blow a five-run lead in the ninth and lose to the Twins in 11 -- the Nats and the Marlins also lost, so the Braves gain a game on everybody in the Division.

While Glaus' blow was the game-winning hit, the game-winning PLAY was made earlier in the game by Heywood.

It's in the bottom of the sixth. Heywood opens the inning with a single and goes to second on a single by Chipper. McCann strikes out. With one out, Glaus grounds deep in the hole. The KC shortstop Betencourt makes a fabulous play, diving to his right to get the ball, then spinning on the ground and throwing from his back to get Chipper at second for the second out.

But Chipper dumps the second baseman (interesting that this was an inning after Greinke took out Prado at second on a very hard slide). Anyway, Heywood never slows down at third ... and powers all the way in from second to score what I guess is a pretty important run in a one-run game.

I think he makes it when Chipper dumps the second-baseman, even though the KC infielder reacted quickly. There is not a play at the plate as Grienke cuts the throw off to hold Glaus at first.

Anyway, look for the replay ... it's a great play by Heywood and another sign of how special the guy is.

PS The MLB is going to have Tuesday Braves at White Sox game on, if anybody's interested.

[COYS]

Great win for the Braves today to complete the sweep of the Royals. With the Mets losing again to the Yankees we add another game to our lead in the East. Another comeback win, which is great, but the debate over whether to cut Medlen or Kawakami from the rotation when Jurrjens comes back has got to be front and center. Kawakami didn't even make it out of the 3rd inning and, after Martinez allowed two inherited runners to score, was charged with 5 runs, blowing a 4-run first inning lead. Meanwhile, Medlen had another quality start this week and has a 1.14 WHIP, which is down near Hudson's level. The Braves are paying Kawakami $6.5 million and I know it probably hurts to move that much money to the bullpen to work as a middle reliever, but I just don't see any reason to bump Medlen from the rotation.

[Olympic Fan]

Totally agree that when Jurrjens returns, Medlen's got to stay in the rotation, while Kawakami's got to go to the pen.

It's just not his 0-9 record (although he has had a few decent starts), but the fact that the Braves are 4-10 in the 14 games he's started (and 38-18 in all other games). For the record, the Braves are 7-1 in Medlen's eight starts.

Another great day in that not only did the Braves win, but the Mets and Phils lost, meaning the Braves have gained two full games on their closest pursuers in the last 24 hours.

If that's not enough, there are signs that Chipper is regaining his stroke. Since talking about retirement last week, he's played in four games and gone 8 of 17 with two doubles, a home run and three walks. Today, he got around on a 96 mph heater and pulled it into the RCF gap for a double.

I know it's a small sample size, but in that span he's raised his average 22 points (from .228 to .250) and his OPS almost 60 points. If he becomes anything close to what he was just two years ago (when he won the batting title), the Braves might not need to deal for another OF bat.

On to Chicago for a series against the suddenly hot White Sox.

[COYS]

I know it's a small sample size, but in that span he's raised his average 22 points (from .228 to .250) and his OPS almost 60 points. If he becomes anything close to what he was just two years ago (when he won the batting title), the Braves might not need to deal for another OF bat.


This is a great point, Olympic Fan, and since I am of the mind that unless someone really wants to overpay for McClouth and/or Melky, there's not much we can get in a trade without giving up our blue chip prospects, I think this is really key for the rest of the season. If Chipper, Escobar and McCann can up their production a bit, we should be balanced enough in our lineup that we don't need to make a deal. We already have a lineup that works the count and forces a lot of walks. Hopefully Heyward will rebound from his slump. If we can just get a bit more out of some of the cogs of our lineup, we will be in fine shape.

[Olympic Fan]

Just thought I'd post and celebrate -- Kawakami finally got a win for the Braves ... not that he didn't have to sweat it.

It looked like another heart-breaker for the guy when they pinch-hit for him in the bottom of the seven. The guy gives up one run in seven innings and leaves down 0-1.

But Chipper ends up hitting a three-run, two-out homer to give the Braves a lead. They add another run in the eighth and it's 4-1 going into the top of the ninth.

That's when Kawakami has to sweat it again.

Homer by Cabrera makes it 4-2 Braves, but two outs and no one on, looks safe ... then Saito and O'Flarherty proceed to walk four straight batters, making it 4-3 with the Bases loaded. They bring in Moylan to pitch to Damon and Moylan goes 3-1 to him, before getting a foul ball strike two and a strike three looking (that the strike zone plotter had outside the strike zone).

Braves win 4-3 and Kawakami improves to 1-7 (Braves now 5-10 in his starts).

More good news -- Mets and Phillies lose, so the Braves add a game to their lead.

[Duvall]

Homer by Cabrera makes it 4-2 Braves, but two outs and no one on, looks safe ... then Saito and O'Flarherty proceed to walk four straight batters, making it 4-3 with the Bases loaded. They bring in Moylan to pitch to Damon and Moylan goes 3-1 to him, before getting a foul ball strike two and a strike three looking (that the strike zone plotter had outside the strike zone).


http://stashbox.org/937112/outside.jpg

Not that Jim Leyland can *ever* complain about a wide strike zone.

[Olympic Fan]

Awesome picture, Duvall ...

I saw the guys on Baseball Tonight do a segment on their studio "field" to explain how that pitch got called strike three (they measured it at four and a half inches off the plate).

Basically had to do with how the umpire set up on McCann's right shoulder. The pitch was tailing away and they said that the ump's view of the cfrucial spot was blocked by McCann's head. They also suggested that the fact that McCann caught the ball as he did (with the pocket out) helped -- if he had turned the glove as you would normally do for an outside pitch, the ump could have seen that and might have called the ball.

Interesting stuff -- whatever the explanation, the Braves clearly caught a break (remember that the next time they get screwed).

Good one today -- Verlander vs. Hanson at 1:30 pm on TBS.

(and I'm in heaven with my Yanks against the Dodgers at 8 on ESPN).

[Channing]

to be fair, it looked to me like every single one of O'Flaherty's pitches to the second batter he walked were right on the corner. How 4 of them were called balls is beyond me...

[Olympic Fan]

to be fair, it looked to me like every single one of O'Flaherty's pitches to the second batter he walked were right on the corner. How 4 of them were called balls is beyond me...

Indeed, the automated pitch tracker showed that all four were in the strike zone ... so I guess it evened up in one game.

[COYS]

Los Bravos got back on track tonight. Another excellent start for Huddy against the Nats. Nice to beat Strasburg, too, even if I have a feeling we'll need to get our W's against him now before he really gets polished. With Heyward getting an MRI on his thumb and, even if he doesn't need surgery, almost certain to miss some games, I think that if the Braves are considering a move for an outfielder, the time might be now. Melky, Hinske, Conrad and Infante have been playing great baseball. I don't think we can ask much more from our bench which has been stellar this season. That being said, if the Braves can work something out for a centerfielder, I think a platoon in left plus the occasional days off for Glaus and Chipper in the infield would still provide enough playing time for the bench to stay sharp.

[CrazieDUMB]

Los Bravos got back on track tonight. Another excellent start for Huddy against the Nats. Nice to beat Strasburg, too, even if I have a feeling we'll need to get our W's against him now before he really gets polished. With Heyward getting an MRI on his thumb and, even if he doesn't need surgery, almost certain to miss some games, I think that if the Braves are considering a move for an outfielder, the time might be now. Melky, Hinske, Conrad and Infante have been playing great baseball. I don't think we can ask much more from our bench which has been stellar this season. That being said, if the Braves can work something out for a centerfielder, I think a platoon in left plus the occasional days off for Glaus and Chipper in the infield would still provide enough playing time for the bench to stay sharp.

I know this is a Braves thread, but allow me to moan about my Nationals for a bit. UUUUGGGHHH!!! You have the best pitcher you've ever seen in a Nationals uniform, and you can't get him a couple runs of support? Then in the 7th, he's in a jam 2 players on base and no outs and you muff a tailor made double play?? I guarantee you if that play is made the next batter gets K'd. On top of that there were fielding issues, bad decision making on throws, etc. That game was painful. The Nationals have scored one run in his last three starts ( 2 L's and a ND).

[COYS]

I know this is a Braves thread, but allow me to moan about my Nationals for a bit. UUUUGGGHHH!!! You have the best pitcher you've ever seen in a Nationals uniform, and you can't get him a couple runs of support? Then in the 7th, he's in a jam 2 players on base and no outs and you muff a tailor made double play?? I guarantee you if that play is made the next batter gets K'd. On top of that there were fielding issues, bad decision making on throws, etc. That game was painful. The Nationals have scored one run in his last three starts ( 2 L's and a ND).

The braves really did take advantage of that misplay. However, Hudson has traditionally been lights out against the Nats and is having a stellar season so there's not too much shame in getting goose-egged by him. I have no doubt that there are a TON of w's in strasburg's near future.

[Olympic Fan]

The braves really did take advantage of that misplay. However, Hudson has traditionally been lights out against the Nats and is having a stellar season so there's not too much shame in getting goose-egged by him. I have no doubt that there are a TON of w's in strasburg's near future.

No question the error was pivotal -- even without a K to the next batter, Hinskie flied out for what should have been the third out ... instead it was the first out of the inning and drive in a run as a sac fly.

The worst part for Strasburg is that because you can't anticipate the double play, he got charged with three "EARNED" runs -- even though without the error, he wouldn't have given up any runs.

On the other hand, his defense saved him a run in the first when Melky doubled then was thrown out at the plate after Strasburg gave up a two-out single to Glaus (and in between, he got Chipper on a very hard liner to left that happened to be hit right at the LFer) ... things even out.

Agree that Hudson was also lights out ... without the big error in the seventh, both starters leave an 0-0 game with no decision and the outcome is decided by the two bullpens.

[BlueDevilBaby]

Nice bounce back win by the Nats last night with some much needed offense. Of course, I missed nearly all of the game. Who would have thought Strasburg would lose and Stammen would win, particularly against Lowe against whom the Nats, IIRC, usually struggle?

[COYS]

We got our answer about the rotation as Jurrjens is set to start tonight and Kawakami has moved to the pen. Hopefully Jurrjens can return to form right away because our rotation outside of Hudson is a little unsettled. Medlen has won his spot, but it remains to be seen if he can be consistent throughout the remainder of the season. Hanson is struggling. Lowe has proven that at this point in his career he's not much better than a 4.50 ERA guy with the ability to throw the occasional gem. We really need Jurrjens to jump back on the wagon and pitch like he did last season. Hopefully that will ease some of the pressure on Hanson and allow him to work through his slump.

The offense has also become very erratic. McCann hasn't quite been able to put together a hot streak. With Heyward out for a bit with his thumb injury, it's time for McCann to take the wheel of the offense.

[DUKIECB]

We got our answer about the rotation as Jurrjens is set to start tonight and Kawakami has moved to the pen. Hopefully Jurrjens can return to form right away because our rotation outside of Hudson is a little unsettled. Medlen has won his spot, but it remains to be seen if he can be consistent throughout the remainder of the season. Hanson is struggling. Lowe has proven that at this point in his career he's not much better than a 4.50 ERA guy with the ability to throw the occasional gem. We really need Jurrjens to jump back on the wagon and pitch like he did last season. Hopefully that will ease some of the pressure on Hanson and allow him to work through his slump.

The offense has also become very erratic. McCann hasn't quite been able to put together a hot streak. With Heyward out for a bit with his thumb injury, it's time for McCann to take the wheel of the offense.

Jurrjens was stellar in his return and Bravos take the series from the Nats 2-1. Hopefully it wasn't just a fluke and he can continue to pitch like that the rest of the season!

[BlueDevilBaby]

Jurrjens was stellar in his return and Bravos take the series from the Nats 2-1. Hopefully it wasn't just a fluke and he can continue to pitch like that the rest of the season!

Then again, it was against the Nationals.;)

[COYS]

Then again, it was against the Nationals.;)

Hey, if you gotta ease your way back into the rotation after an injury, what better team to start out against?

Nice outing from Medlen last night against the fish. He's proving that he deserves his spot in the rotation.

[Jarhead]

When was the last time the Braves had a 3 game lead in 1st place? Honestly, I don't remember, but I am quite happy with them. Hudson is today's pitcher, and the way the other teams in the division are playing, I am hopeful that lead will be 4 games tomorrow.

[Olympic Fan]

The fact that the Braves found a way to beat both Washington's Strasberg and Miami's Johnson -- well, maybe not beat them, but win the games they started -- is a very encouraging sign.

Really, the team's home performance is amazing -- 30-9 at home? That's redonculous!

It would be nice to stretch the lead today -- both the Mets and Phillies are on the road, but they are at the Nats and the Pirates, respectively, so it's hard to be too optimistic. It was sweet watching the Mets' bullpen implode Saturday!

Big week coming up before the all-star break -- three games in Philly (starting with Halladay on Monday), then three games against the Mets in New York (and they have the second-best home record in the NL).

[COYS]

The fact that the Braves found a way to beat both Washington's Strasberg and Miami's Johnson -- well, maybe not beat them, but win the games they started -- is a very encouraging sign.

Really, the team's home performance is amazing -- 30-9 at home? That's redonculous!

It would be nice to stretch the lead today -- both the Mets and Phillies are on the road, but they are at the Nats and the Pirates, respectively, so it's hard to be too optimistic. It was sweet watching the Mets' bullpen implode Saturday!

Big week coming up before the all-star break -- three games in Philly (starting with Halladay on Monday), then three games against the Mets in New York (and they have the second-best home record in the NL).

The week will go a long way to determining what the Braves do before the trade deadline. The pitching staff has some question marks (does Hanson's recent start mean his struggles are behind him? Will JJ be the pitcher he was last year? Can Medlen continue to lock down the back end of the rotation?), but I think it's unlikely the Braves do anything to alter the pitching staff given that Kawakami is now in the pen and the Braves have pretty good depth, there, (even if the quality of the depth may be suspect). The outfield, however, is basically relying on Heyward returning from injury and playing like he did in April. I don't think the Braves can grab a big name outfielder, but we'll have to see if Wren and Co. can strike a bargain somewhere to add a little pop to the lineup.

[JasonEvans]

The week will go a long way to determining what the Braves do before the trade deadline. The pitching staff has some question marks (does Hanson's recent start mean his struggles are behind him? Will JJ be the pitcher he was last year? Can Medlen continue to lock down the back end of the rotation?), but I think it's unlikely the Braves do anything to alter the pitching staff given that Kawakami is now in the pen and the Braves have pretty good depth, there, (even if the quality of the depth may be suspect). The outfield, however, is basically relying on Heyward returning from injury and playing like he did in April. I don't think the Braves can grab a big name outfielder, but we'll have to see if Wren and Co. can strike a bargain somewhere to add a little pop to the lineup.

I hope the team's recent success will not convince management to stand pat at the trade deadline. If we can make the right kind of deal to add an outfield bat, we should certainly do it. We don't need to panic and trade a stud prospect, but we should do something.

--Jason

[northernduke]

Big series starts tonight in Philadelphia. It'd be great to take 2 out of 3 and do not worse than .500 over the next two series (although I'd take 4 out of 6 any day). We need to capitalize on Utley being out of the lineup and establish some cushion over both rivals. Most exciting July in years to be a Braves fan!

[Olympic Fan]

Big series starts tonight in Philadelphia. It'd be great to take 2 out of 3 and do not worse than .500 over the next two series (although I'd take 4 out of 6 any day). We need to capitalize on Utley being out of the lineup and establish some cushion over both rivals. Most exciting July in years to be a Braves fan!

It's not just this three-game set ... it's the whole week.

After three games in Philly tonight, Tuesday and Wednesday, the Braves get a day off Thursday, then play three in New York against the Mets over the weekend.

It's going to be a pivotal stretch before the all-star break.

Starts tonight with Halladay going against Lowe ... if we can get this one, it would really rock the Phils. I have hope -- the Braves beat Strasberg and Johnson last week.

As for Jason's suggestion -- I totally agree. The Braves need to add an outfield bat before the trade deadline. You can bet the Phils and Mets will be dealing -- everything I read and hear lists the Mets as the frontrunner to add Cliff Lee. And if New York lands LeBron this week ... oops, excuse me -- just a moment of Sportscenter overload.

[Channing]

another win in the last at bat. While nobody (except Prado) has been exceptional at the plate this year, it seems lots of different folks are coming through when the pressure is on.

As an aside, what do we do with Blanco when McLouth gets healthy? Surely we wont keep Nate on the roster and send Blanco down?

[COYS]

another win in the last at bat. While nobody (except Prado) has been exceptional at the plate this year, it seems lots of different folks are coming through when the pressure is on.

As an aside, what do we do with Blanco when McLouth gets healthy? Surely we wont keep Nate on the roster and send Blanco down?

If we don't deal for an outfield bat, we have to bring mclouth back and hope that he can regain some of his form from two years ago. He's got a much higher ceiling than blanco, this season's stats notwithstanding. McLouth hasn't been fully healthy in over a year. Hopefully he will be fully healed and give us something a long the lines of .270 with some pop the rest of the way out.

[devildeac]

2 outta 3 from the Fillies. On to the Mutts.

[Jarhead]

2 outta 3 from the Fillies. On to the Mutts.

So they give us a nice relaxing game to watch on TV, and win it 4-2 over the Mets, or Mutts. Up 4 now, and I am happy to see more of the Braves on TV, now. The 7th inning was unusual, to say the least. Two guys with 5 homers between them come to bat with score tied at 2, and 2 outs, and Dickey still floating his pitches over the plate -- Cabrera hits the first pitch outa here. Then Infante comes to bat and also hits the first pitch outa there. That was the game. The Mets looked like they were resigned to a loss in the last two innings. With any kind of luck the Braves could be 6 games out in front at the All Star break. Feels pretty good, don't you think?

[northernduke]

1 outta 1 from the Metropolitans. 3 of 4 for the road trip. Need at least one more win on this stretch. Lets hope the team doesn't take a break for the All-Star game!

[Jarhead]

1 outta 1 from the Metropolitans. 3 of 4 for the road trip. Need at least one more win on this stretch. Lets hope the team doesn't take a break for the All-Star game!

2 outta 2 from the Mets. In the last ten games they are playing at a .700 pace. Now, 6 games into te second half of the season, they are in first place of the National League-East by 5 games. Win again this afternoon on TBS, and they could be up by 6 games, and we can relax and enjoy the all star break.

[Channing]

2 outta 2 from the Mets. In the last ten games they are playing at a .700 pace. Now, 6 games into te second half of the season, they are in first place of the National League-East by 5 games. Win again this afternoon on TBS, and they could be up by 6 games, and we can relax and enjoy the all star break.

Since their 9 game skid early in the season, the braves are an absurd 44-21, coming in at ~68%. I think they have now won something like 21 of their last 22 series, or something crazy.

[COYS]

Since their 9 game skid early in the season, the braves are an absurd 44-21, coming in at ~68%. I think they have now won something like 21 of their last 22 series, or something crazy.

Beating the Mets is always fun. A win over Santana today would really tilt momentum in our favor. Come on, Lowe!

[COYS]

Beating the Mets is always fun. A win over Santana today would really tilt momentum in our favor. Come on, Lowe!

We couldn't quite pull of the sweep as Santana saved the Mets. Still, the braves have got to feel good right now. 4 games up after completing consecutive away series wins against our top two division rivals. Neither of our opponents landed Cliff Lee. Diaz is back from injury and hitting well, making our deep bench even deeper. Heyward should be back soon after the break and hopefully returning to form. Jurrjens has helped to settle our rotation. We really just need a little more pop in the lineup. Is it too much to hope for McLouth to recover? That or frank wren pulls a bunny out of the hat before the deadline.

[Olympic Fan]

We couldn't quite pull of the sweep as Santana saved the Mets. Still, the braves have got to feel good right now. 4 games up after completing consecutive away series wins against our top two division rivals. Neither of our opponents landed Cliff Lee. Diaz is back from injury and hitting well, making our deep bench even deeper. Heyward should be back soon after the break and hopefully returning to form. Jurrjens has helped to settle our rotation. We really just need a little more pop in the lineup. Is it too much to hope for McLouth to recover? That or frank wren pulls a bunny out of the hat before the deadline.

This week was the first time that I felt like the Braves are actually the best team in the Division. I've never been that impressed with the Mets, but the Phillies have worried me.

It would have been nice if the Reds had taken a couple of games from them in Philly -- three extra inning losses (including a blown 9-2 lead in the ninth and a perfect game into the ninth) plus a 1-0 loss today.

Still, I'm relieved that neither the Phillies nor Mets got Lee. I'm sure they both want to add an arm. Who can they get? Oswalt?

Heyward coming back -- fresh and healthy -- would be a big boost. If -- and that's a big IF -- he can recapture his early season form, then I could do without another bat.

PS Infante has been on fire since he was named to the all-star team. Maybe it wasn't such an awful pick after all.

[Olympic Fan]

The Braves just traded SS Yunel Escobar (and pitcher Jo-Jo Reyes) to Toronto for SS Alex Gonzales (and two nice long-term prospects)

Interesting deal. Escobar is younger (27 to 33 for Gonzales). Going into this year, you'd have said that Escobar was a much better hitter -- his career OPS-plus of 105>Gonzales OPS 81-plus.

But that's changed. This year, Escobar is hitting .238 0 HR 19 RBIs; Gonzales it hitting .259 17 HR 50 RBIs ... his 112 OPS-plus is >> Escobar's 70. Indeed, at the all-star break, he was the top-hitting SS in the AL.

Similiar defensive stats.

I like the deal in that although Escobar has more long-term potential, I think Gonzales is the better player today -- and I think when you've got a chance to win it, you should strike to seize the opportunity.

Plus, the two prospects coming to Atlanta both look good. They are in the lower minors and thus it's hard to project, but both are plus prospects:

Tyler Pastornicky, 20, has a .258 average, six home runs and 35 RBIs for the Jays' Class-A Dunedin club this season. He's a second baseman.

Tim Collins, also 20, has a 2.51 ERA in 35 appearances for Toronto's Double-A team in New Hampshire.

I have no problem giving up Reyes, who has a good arm, but has been terrible at the ML level. He's young and might have a future, but the Braves can't wait for him to find himself.

[COYS]

The Braves just traded SS Yunel Escobar (and pitcher Jo-Jo Reyes) to Toronto for SS Alex Gonzales (and two nice long-term prospects)

Interesting deal. Escobar is younger (27 to 33 for Gonzales). Going into this year, you'd have said that Escobar was a much better hitter -- his career OPS-plus of 105>Gonzales OPS 81-plus.

But that's changed. This year, Escobar is hitting .238 0 HR 19 RBIs; Gonzales it hitting .259 17 HR 50 RBIs ... his 112 OPS-plus is >> Escobar's 70. Indeed, at the all-star break, he was the top-hitting SS in the AL.

Similiar defensive stats.

I like the deal in that although Escobar has more long-term potential, I think Gonzales is the better player today -- and I think when you've got a chance to win it, you should strike to seize the opportunity.

Plus, the two prospects coming to Atlanta both look good. They are in the lower minors and thus it's hard to project, but both are plus prospects:

Tyler Pastornicky, 20, has a .258 average, six home runs and 35 RBIs for the Jays' Class-A Dunedin club this season. He's a second baseman.

Tim Collins, also 20, has a 2.51 ERA in 35 appearances for Toronto's Double-A team in New Hampshire.

I have no problem giving up Reyes, who has a good arm, but has been terrible at the ML level. He's young and might have a future, but the Braves can't wait for him to find himself.

Just saw this deal, as well, and I gotta say that I like it. Long term, Gonzales has a club option for next season so if no better options arise the Braves aren't left completely high and dry. As for this year, there have been rumors that Escobar never completely left his immature ways behind after the organization was on the fence about his attitude when he was in the minors/just coming up to the majors. He's made some boneheaded plays in the field that smack of laziness/lack of concentration and an attitude problem that apparently still plagues him. (Remember that Esco was shopped as the centerpiece of the Braves failed deal for Jake Peavy over a year ago). He's got a ton of talent, but at 27 years old he should be realizing it now. Two years from now if Esco is back to being a .300/15/75 type of hitter this deal may not look so good, but for this season it seems like the Braves get a hot hitter, a similarly talented defensive shortstop, and a better clubhouse presence.

As for Jo-Jo, I could not agree more with Olympic Fan. His arm is great but his control has been atrocious, even in the minors (I caught a Gwinnett game the other night when Jo-Jo was pitching and he walked five through two innings). He's still young, especially as pitchers go, but like Kyle Davies a few years back, his time with the Braves is up. The long term prospects do look good. The lefty reliever Tim Collins has really good numbers in Double A with a pretty ridiculous K/BB rate of 73/16 in only 43 innings. His ERA of 2.51 and opponent batting average below .200 is solid. We won't know for a while how this pans out, but a lefty who can strike batters out like that is usually pretty hard to come by.

[JasonEvans]

Worth noting that, unless I am wrong about his time-served, Escobar becomes arbitration-eligible next season and shold be due a huuuge raise over the $425k (or so) he makes this year. Gonzalez is due $2.5 million next season if the Braves pick up his option, which is not a huge figure for a quality short-stop.

Hard to say what Escobar would get in arbitration. his offensive numbers haev been so bad this year, they are really costing him $$$$$$. If he had another season like the past couple (around .300 batting average and double-digit homers) then it would not be at all hard to see him getting a raise into multiple millions.

Anyway, I agree that Escobar was likely becoming locker room poison and getting him out of Atlanta was a good move. I just hope this deal does not stop the Braves from at least considering more offensive help in the OF.

--Jason "giving up Reyes was an easy addition to the deal" Evans

[COYS]

Worth noting that, unless I am wrong about his time-served, Escobar becomes arbitration-eligible next season and shold be due a huuuge raise over the $425k (or so) he makes this year. Gonzalez is due $2.5 million next season if the Braves pick up his option, which is not a huge figure for a quality short-stop.

Hard to say what Escobar would get in arbitration. his offensive numbers haev been so bad this year, they are really costing him $$$$$$. If he had another season like the past couple (around .300 batting average and double-digit homers) then it would not be at all hard to see him getting a raise into multiple millions.

Anyway, I agree that Escobar was likely becoming locker room poison and getting him out of Atlanta was a good move. I just hope this deal does not stop the Braves from at least considering more offensive help in the OF.

--Jason "giving up Reyes was an easy addition to the deal" Evans

Good point about yunel's arbitration eligibility for next season. We may very well end up paying gonzales about the same as we wouldve paid Yunel. We'll have to see. From an interview with Dave o'brien from the AJC it looks like Wren is taking a wait and see approach wrt adding another bat. I'd post the link but I'm smartphoning it right now and it's just a bit complex. You can get there from ajc.com, though. Anyway, he wants to see how Heyward, Diaz, and eventually McLouth recover from injury before making a move. Not much time left, though, so I'd think that anything Nate is able to give us this season should b counted as a bonus from here on out. Definitely do not want to mrtgage the farm in a Teixeira type deal, but a little depth to our lineup would be nice. Prado is having an amazing season, but the fact that he leads the Braves in OPS is not a good thing. We simply need more power.

[Olympic Fan]

Great performance by the Braves today -- grand slam by McCann; Diaz homers for the second straight day; at least two great defensive players by Gonzales ...

Should have gained a game on the Mets, but didn't thanks to a blown umpiring call. Mets and Giants are tied 3-3 in the bottom of the ninth and the Giants have runners at second and third.

A bouncer is hit to third and the runner tries to score. David Wright's throw is high and as the catcher leaps top catch it, the runner slides in under him with the winning run.

Somehow, the ump calls him out -- it was pretty clear real time that it wasn't even close ... on replay, it's even more egregious -- the runner is halfway across the plate before he's tagged.

http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/photos?gameId=300718126&photoId=740239

Mets score in the top of the 10th and get an undeserved 4-3 win, so the Braves don't gain any ground.

[JasonEvans]

http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2010/07/18/ba-95724158ES012_0501983199.jpg

Yup, that looks like a bad call.

Still, hard to be too upset about a 5 game lead. The Braves have the biggest lead of any team in any division.

--Jason "I must admit, a 2-2 split with the Brewers at Turner Field is a little unexpected" Evans

[Channing]

Escobar is 6-13 (I think) since the break with a grand slam. Hopefully the change of scenery gets his career back on track after an awful first half with the braves.

-Steven

[devildeac]

Braves lead is up to 6 games now after a 4-1 victory over the Padres, who USED to have the best record in the NL. And they did it without Chipper and with the middle of their line-up going 0/7.

[Jarhead]

Braves lead is up to 6 games now after a 4-1 victory over the Padres, who USED to have the best record in the NL. And they did it without Chipper and with the middle of their line-up going 0/7.

:DSince the Mets lost late, the lead is 6½ games. When can I relax? Bobby deserves at least a pennant, but I'm going for Series champ. Keeping the karma up is a community thing.

[Olympic Fan]

Mark Bradley (the noted Duke hater) found some bulletin board material for the Braves in the Philadelphia paper:

http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/2010/07/20/the-view-from-philly-first-place-braves-are-nothing-special/?cxntfid=blogs_mark_bradley_blog

Ford is amazingly dismissive of the Braves ... Brian McCann and Troy Glaus are "easy outs"?

I'm also reading that the Phillies are close to dealing for Roy Oswalt to shore up a rotation that is in shambles beyond the Halladay/Hamels combo. But to make it work, they are going to have to deal Jason Werth to Tampa Bay.

It's funny, but the Phillies could have kept Cliff Lee to go along with Halladay, but they let him go for financial considerations. I wonder if they wish they had kept him?

Last night was awesome -- Braves win/Mets and Phillies lose. The lead is now seven games in the loss column over both. And the schedule remains extremely favorable ... Atlanta gets to spend most of August at home, where they are nearly invincible.

The question now is whether the Braves do need to add an OF bat? With Diaz back and Heywood healthy, the offense is clicking again. The only hole is centerfield -- McLouth should be back soon, but he's not tearing it up in his rehab starts -- the Blanco/Cabrera platoon in center has been doing well.

Personally, I'd say things are to the point where I would not give up a grade-A prospect for another bat. If it's a case of renting a high-priced, soon-to-be free agent, then I think that's something to management should explore.

Still a long way to go, but it's looking better and better for the Braves.

[JasonEvans]

I laughed out loud at that Philly column. What a moron!

Lets do some basic math...

The Phillies have played 93 games. That means they have 69 games to go (right?). Last year, the Phils went 93-69, a fabulous record in which they had a winning percentage of .574.

If they were to duplicate that .574 win percentage over their final 69 games, they would go 39-30. For them to catch the Braves if they go 39-30, the Braves (who also have 69 games left on the schedule) would have to go 32-37, for a win percentage of .463. In other words, the Braves would have to become the Cubs or the Brewers. Only 10 teams in all of baseball are playing at worse than a .463 pace. So, the Braves would have to go from the 3rd best record in all of baseball to being one of the 10 worst teams in baseball.

Yeah, that is likely!

The Braves are currently winning games at a .591 pace (actually much higher than that if you take out the horrid start to the season). Lets say the Braves are just barely a .500 ballclub for the rest of the season -- which is more likely than them being well below .500 at .463. Lets say they go 34-35 over their final 69 games. To top them, the Phillies would have to go 41-28, or .594, an even better win percentage than they had last year when they won the World Series.

Look, I am not saying it is not going to happen, but it is a bit of a longshot. The math is starting to catch up to the Phils. Baseball teams typically are who they are by the time you get 100 games into the season. It is just not very likely that a team that hovered around .500 starts playing .600 ball or a team that is playing .600 ball starts playing sub .500 ball after 100 games.

--Jason "the Phils are better off concentrating on catching the Reds, Mets, Giants, Rockies, and Dodgers in the Wild Card chase" Evans

[Olympic Fan]

Last night was tough to take ... up 4-2 in the top of the ninth. Wagner on the mound.

He gives up homer, single, double -- and that leads to an excutiatingly close play at the plate. Heywood makes a perfect throw to Prado who makes a nice throw to the plate ... but McCann doesn't do a good job of blocking the plate and Jerry Hairston slides in with the winning run just under his tag. It's so close that the color commentator thought the ump had blown the call -- but on super-duper slow motion, you can see that he got in under McCann (I can live with that -- they got the call right ... if it were wrong, it would gnaw at me).

Padres score two in the top of the 12th to win.

Still, not too bad -- Mets and Phillies both lost again -- the lead is still seven in the loss column.

Big day -- Hudson on the mound for the Braves this afternoon -- you got to win with your ace on the mound. Hamels and Wainwright are matching up in Cincinnati ... the Mets open a series at the Dodgers.

Oh yeah, the latest is that the Reds seem to lead for Oswalt ... apparently the Phillie management is waving the white flag -- no Oswalt and Werth is soon to be gone.

[cato]

Big day -- Hudson on the mound for the Braves this afternoon -- you got to win with your ace on the mound.

Last night showed exactly why the Padres have made such a huge turn around since the '09 all-star break. In the first half of '09, they would have conceded that game, particularly with Atlanta's home record. Instead, they hung around, relied on the bullpen, found a way to tie it in the 9th, and won in their last at-bat (with their last available pinch hitter).

It was fitting to have these two teams swap the NL lead back and forth over the past two days. Today is indeed a big day -- from my side, it would be great for the Friars to snatch this series in one of the toughest places to play at the start of a long series of road trips.

[Channing]

good bounceback game for the bravos (sorry Cato). Hudson looked great as usual. If Dunn can ever find the strikezone he will be a great reliever, imo.

Heyward is hitting well again in a limited sample size and will hopefully continue to provide some support and stability at the top of the lineup. Diaz has also been great since coming off the DL.

Looking forward to a hopefully very successful road trip.

[devildeac]

good bounceback game for the bravos (sorry Cato). Hudson looked great as usual. If Dunn can ever find the strikezone he will be a great reliever, imo.

Heyward is hitting well again in a limited sample size and will hopefully continue to provide some support and stability at the top of the lineup. Diaz has also been great since coming off the DL.

Looking forward to a hopefully very successful road trip.

I still think the Braves need a CF. Obviously hoping though that McLouth can recover from his injury and start hitting well above the Mendoza line.

Interesting quotes from last PM about Gonzalez, his 4 hits, his defense and how he was like a breath of fresh air in the locker room (or something to that effect). Their most recent SS must have been a real cancer.

[Duvall]

Interesting quotes from last PM about Gonzalez, his 4 hits, his defense and how he was like a breath of fresh air in the locker room (or something to that effect). Their most recent SS must have been a real cancer.

Unfortunately Escobar was also a much better baseball player than Gonzalez. Whattayagonnado.

[JasonEvans]

Unfortunately Escobar was also a much better baseball player than Gonzalez. Whattayagonnado.

Not on defense.

-Jason

[devildeac]

The Braves just traded SS Yunel Escobar (and pitcher Jo-Jo Reyes) to Toronto for SS Alex Gonzales (and two nice long-term prospects)

Interesting deal. Escobar is younger (27 to 33 for Gonzales). Going into this year, you'd have said that Escobar was a much better hitter -- his career OPS-plus of 105>Gonzales OPS 81-plus.

But that's changed. This year, Escobar is hitting .238 0 HR 19 RBIs; Gonzales it hitting .259 17 HR 50 RBIs ... his 112 OPS-plus is >> Escobar's 70. Indeed, at the all-star break, he was the top-hitting SS in the AL.

Similiar defensive stats.

I like the deal in that although Escobar has more long-term potential, I think Gonzales is the better player today -- and I think when you've got a chance to win it, you should strike to seize the opportunity.

Plus, the two prospects coming to Atlanta both look good. They are in the lower minors and thus it's hard to project, but both are plus prospects:

Tyler Pastornicky, 20, has a .258 average, six home runs and 35 RBIs for the Jays' Class-A Dunedin club this season. He's a second baseman.

Tim Collins, also 20, has a 2.51 ERA in 35 appearances for Toronto's Double-A team in New Hampshire.

I have no problem giving up Reyes, who has a good arm, but has been terrible at the ML level. He's young and might have a future, but the Braves can't wait for him to find himself.


Just saw this deal, as well, and I gotta say that I like it. Long term, Gonzales has a club option for next season so if no better options arise the Braves aren't left completely high and dry. As for this year, there have been rumors that Escobar never completely left his immature ways behind after the organization was on the fence about his attitude when he was in the minors/just coming up to the majors. He's made some boneheaded plays in the field that smack of laziness/lack of concentration and an attitude problem that apparently still plagues him. (Remember that Esco was shopped as the centerpiece of the Braves failed deal for Jake Peavy over a year ago). He's got a ton of talent, but at 27 years old he should be realizing it now. Two years from now if Esco is back to being a .300/15/75 type of hitter this deal may not look so good, but for this season it seems like the Braves get a hot hitter, a similarly talented defensive shortstop, and a better clubhouse presence.

As for Jo-Jo, I could not agree more with Olympic Fan. His arm is great but his control has been atrocious, even in the minors (I caught a Gwinnett game the other night when Jo-Jo was pitching and he walked five through two innings). He's still young, especially as pitchers go, but like Kyle Davies a few years back, his time with the Braves is up. The long term prospects do look good. The lefty reliever Tim Collins has really good numbers in Double A with a pretty ridiculous K/BB rate of 73/16 in only 43 innings. His ERA of 2.51 and opponent batting average below .200 is solid. We won't know for a while how this pans out, but a lefty who can strike batters out like that is usually pretty hard to come by.


Unfortunately Escobar was also a much better baseball player than Gonzalez. Whattayagonnado.

I don't know about that based on the above. Looks good so far for the Braves and, if you get rid of a locker room cancer/poison (based on the comments I read in the Raleigh n&o today and as has been suggested by posters more local and knowledgeable than I am), I'd be satisfied at this early date.

[Duvall]

Not on defense.

-Jason

Not really. Escobar's superior arm more than makes up for his mental errors - it's a toss-up at worst.

And if it weren't, how much defense would it take to make up for the difference between a career OPS of .698 and a career OPS of .771?

[Channing]

two blown saves in a row from wagner...hope this doesnt become a trend coming down the stretch.

real inexcusable mistake by McCann letting that ball get by him...

[Olympic Fan]

Not really. Escobar's superior arm more than makes up for his mental errors - it's a toss-up at worst.

And if it weren't, how much defense would it take to make up for the difference between a career OPS of .698 and a career OPS of .771?

That's long-term -- and I think those of us who support the trade have conceded that Escobar has more long-term potential (which is why the Braves got two Grade A minor league prospects in the deal). But the Braves are trying to win NOW -- they have a chance this season and are acting to seize it. Escobar has been one of their bigger problems ... aside from the clubhouse issues and the lack of concentration on the field, he had a .618 OPS this season at the time of the trade. Gonzales was playing better defense (agree, his arm is not as strong, but he's been much steadier) and came with an .808 OPS (and it's been .960 with the Braves.

Short term (this year at least) Gonzales has been a MUCH better shortstop. Long-term, I have no doubt that Escobar will be the better shortstop over the next 5-10 years. He's youngerr and does have more potential. To offset that, I think (hope) Gonzales (1) can help the Braves win the division NOW and (2) one of the two prospects (especially Collins) blossoms.

[Duvall]

That's long-term -- and I think those of us who support the trade have conceded that Escobar has more long-term potential (which is why the Braves got two Grade A minor league prospects in the deal). But the Braves are trying to win NOW -- they have a chance this season and are acting to seize it. Escobar has been one of their bigger problems ... aside from the clubhouse issues and the lack of concentration on the field, he had a .618 OPS this season at the time of the trade. Gonzales was playing better defense (agree, his arm is not as strong, but he's been much steadier) and came with an .808 OPS (and it's been .960 with the Braves.

No question Gonzalez is having a much better first half of 2010 than Escobar. But what's a better sign of how these players will perform in the second half of the season and in the postseason - their play over three months, or their performance over their entire careers? With both players healthy isn't it more likely that Escobar's numbers will start rising back towards his career averages, and that Gonzalez will come back to earth a bit? (Not that it means much, but Escobar has been torrid since the trade.)

It's entirely possible that Escobar had alienated his teammates so much that it was affecting everyone's play, in which case a trade was probably necessary. And the Braves could still come out ahead if Tim Collins develops into a quality player. But it doesn't change the fact that the Braves traded a younger, cheaper and more productive player for an older, more expensive and less productive one.

[Duvall]

It's all moot anyway. This Braves team isn't making the postseason.

[JasonEvans]

It's all moot anyway. This Braves team isn't making the postseason.

Is that a joke or are you being serious?

--Jason "care to make a bet?" Evans

[Duvall]

Is that a joke or are you being serious?

Not a joke, though I could be wrong. Just worried about the prospect of holding off the Phillies with a lineup that's starting to look top-heavy.

[Duvall]

I laughed out loud at that Philly column. What a moron!


The Braves are now 57-42, with the Phillies a mere 3.5 games back at 54-46. If the Braves go a bit under .500 the rest of the season - and I'll be pleasantly surprised if they manage that - they'll end the year at 88-74. The Phillies would need only post a 35-27 mark for the remainder of the season to win the division outright at a .565 clip. That's only a game and a half ahead of the pace they've already set this year. I'll be surprised if the more talented Phillies team doesn't take this division for the third straight year.

[whirlieduke4]

I'll be surprised of the underachieving Phillies will be able to surge past the Braves and hold on to the lead. We all knew they would make a run at some point, but the Braves most certainly have a similar run in there too. I think when it comes down to it the Braves will just be more consistent in the second half with a big time run as the season winds down.

[Channing]

I'll be surprised of the underachieving Phillies will be able to surge past the Braves and hold on to the lead. We all knew they would make a run at some point, but the Braves most certainly have a similar run in there too. I think when it comes down to it the Braves will just be more consistent in the second half with a big time run as the season winds down.

if the phils manage to land oswalt that all could change. it looks like a deal is in place, they are just waiting for oswalt's approval.

[JasonEvans]

if the phils manage to land oswalt that all could change. it looks like a deal is in place, they are just waiting for oswalt's approval.

Oswalt is going to try to make them pick up his $16 million option for 2012 to approve the trade. They will do it. Oswalt is 33 and would seem to likely still be a pretty decent starter for the next 2 years. He's not quite old enough to make the option be a deal-breaker.

The Phillies have trimmed 4+ games off the lead the past week of their win streak, which is a big deal. Still, with a 3.5 game lead (4 in the loss column), the Braves have the 2nd largest division lead in all of baseball. The Phillies have pupt together this win streak against a Colorado team that was in the final days of a brutal 11-day East Coast road trip and the lowly Arizona DBacks, one of the worst teams in baseball.

Huddy was huge lats night as the Braves got back on the winning side of things. That series with the Marlins, where the Braves came back in every game but still managed to blow 2 out of 3, was brutal.

--Jason "big series at Cincy this weekend... then we get to put the nail in the Mets coffin next week" Evans

[Olympic Fan]

The Braves are now 57-42, with the Phillies a mere 3.5 games back at 54-46. If the Braves go a bit under .500 the rest of the season - and I'll be pleasantly surprised if they manage that - they'll end the year at 88-74. The Phillies would need only post a 35-27 mark for the remainder of the season to win the division outright at a .565 clip. That's only a game and a half ahead of the pace they've already set this year. I'll be surprised if the more talented Phillies team doesn't take this division for the third straight year.

I don't understand your pessimism -- especially when it's as emphatic as in your previous post, when you flat-out declare that the Braves won't be in postseason.

So your reasoning is that after playing .580 ball for 100 games (58-42), the Braves will suddenly become a sub-.500 team ("I'll be pleasantly surprised if they manage that") for the final 62.

And the Phillies, after being a .545 team (55-46) for 101 games will suddenly become a .565 team for the final 61.

That's possible ... but is it certain (as your first post implies) or even likely?

As I see it, the Braves are in great shape. They have the best home record in baseball and more home games left than anybody (34 of their final 62; the Phillies have 31 of their final 61 on the road).

The Braves have built their first-half lead with Heyward, Diaz and Jurrjens out for significant periods -- all are back healthy and playing well. The Braves built their lead with a black hole at shortstop -- however the Escobar-Gonzales deal works out long term, Gonzales HAS to provide more in the second half than Escobar did in the first half. No guarnatee that the Braves get any better production in CF, but it can't be worse than what they did get in theb first 100 games.

I just don't see why they should suddenly become a sub-.500 team with so many home games and a healthier roster.

I can see the Phillies getting better (although Utley is still going to be out a while), but even if they play .700 ball and zoom past the Braves in the standings, there's still the wild card -- and if you put the Braves in that mix, they'd be in the lead there.

No, I'm not claiming that the playoffs are a lock, but to assert "It's all moot anyway. This Braves team isn't making the postseason" is absurd.

[Duvall]

I don't understand your pessimism -- especially when it's as emphatic as in your previous post, when you flat-out declare that the Braves won't be in postseason.

So your reasoning is that after playing .580 ball for 100 games (58-42), the Braves will suddenly become a sub-.500 team ("I'll be pleasantly surprised if they manage that") for the final 62.

And the Phillies, after being a .545 team (55-46) for 101 games will suddenly become a .565 team for the final 61.

That's possible ... but is it certain (as your first post implies) or even likely?

I think so. Prado is coming back to Earth, Chipper is close to being done, Glaus has been horrible all year except for a six-week stretch that is now over, and center field is a disaster area, the bullpen is getting worn out. The rotation hasn't been terrible, but it remains to be seen whether Medlen can sustain his success as a starter.

Basically, I think this Braves team overachieved to get this far, and that we're about to see some pretty severe regression to the mean.

Oh, and I'm NOT a Phillies fan.

[devildeac]

Another loss to the Nats. Blecch.

[DUKIECB]

Another loss to the Nats. Blecch.

And to make matters worse, the Phils extended their win streak. Down to 2.5 game lead in the division.

The Bravos are going to have to do a little better on the road if they want to hold off the Phils down the stretch.

[Olympic Fan]

I think so. Prado is coming back to Earth, Chipper is close to being done, Glaus has been horrible all year except for a six-week stretch that is now over, and center field is a disaster area, the bullpen is getting worn out. The rotation hasn't been terrible, but it remains to be seen whether Medlen can sustain his success as a starter.

Basically, I think this Braves team overachieved to get this far, and that we're about to see some pretty severe regression to the mean.

Oh, and I'm NOT a Phillies fan.

I never called you a Phillies fan ... and for the record, I never underestimated the Phillies -- go back in the thread and you'll see that when the Mets were on the Braves' heels I professed to be more concerned with the slumping Phillies. I respect teams that win -- and they've won two straight NL titles.

On the other hand, I think your claim that the Braves overachieved in the first 100 games is worth exploring. Is there any truth to that?

I started by comparing Atlanta regulars with their career numbers. Just using OPS as a shorthand ... I'm willing to look at other stats if you want.

To begin with, you mention Prado "coming back to earth". It's true that his .845 OPS is better than his career average -- but not by much. He has a career .823 OPS. He opened his career with two fairly mediocre seasons at age 22 and 23. But the two previous years, he was .838 and .822. While his batting average has attracted attention, his OPS is not out of line.

Prado's slight gain is offset by McCann's similiar drop -- from a career .851 OPS to .837 so far this year.

At shortstop, the Braves muddled through the first half with Escobar's horrendous .618 OPS -- far off his career .775 number. They replaced him with Gonzales for the stretch. Not sure what we'll get -- his mediocre .697 career OPS (still better than what Escobar provided), his .788 OPS that he had in the first half at Toronto or the .750 he's posted so far in Atlanta. Either way, it's an upgrade, not a decline.

At third base, Chipper is having the worst OPS of his career -- but more on Chipper and Glaus in a moment.

In the otherfield, three of the four most-used outfielders have had OPS numbers that are below their career averages. Only Hinskie at .850 (after a career .779) is above his head. McLouth, Cabrera and Diaz are all well below their career numbers.

Infante, the supersub, does have a career-best .756 OPS. But he was .755 and .750 the last two years, so it's not like he's playing over his head.

Let's look at three key players:

As I said, Chipper is having the worst OPS year of his career .758. Just two years ago, he was on a streak of three straight 1,000-plus OPS years. If you're talking about regressing to norm, shouldn't get actually play better in the second half? During his career, his OPS is .040 HIGHER in the second half.

Glaus did have a great six-week run. But even with that, his OPS over the first 100 games (.783) was below his norm (.851). It's very similar to the OPS the Braves got from Kotchman and LaRoche last year at first base. Interesting that in his career, Glaus has had his best stats in April and May (over .900 OPS in both) and his worst in June and July (both exactly .788 OPS). He's always hit better down the stretch --.833 in August; .861 in September.

Heyward is of course new to the equation. He started the season hot, then was hurt. Since coming back, his OPS has RISEN -- it's over 900 in the last 28 days ... over 1,000 in the last 14 days. No reason to think we won't get better production in the last 60 games than in the first 100.

My point is that when you look at the Braves' roster, you don't see a lot of guys who had flukey numbers in the first 100 games that they shouldn't be able to repeat in the last 60. On the contrary, there is every reason to think the Braves will get MORE at RF, SS and CF (now that they finally dumped McLousy and his dreadful .544 OPS). I assume that we'll see Cabrera (.687 OPS this year; .712 for his career) in centerfield most of the time -- not great, but better than what was there before and Hinskie/Diaz platoon in left (and remember that Diaz was hurt most of the first half).

What about pitching?

Well, Hudson is having a better-than-average year. Both his ERA (2.40 and his WHIP (1.121) are better than his career norms.

Offsetting that, Lowe is having a subpar year -- his ERA is .70 higher than his career average and his WHIP is .138 higher.

Hanson is also having a worse year than his rookie season in both ERA and WHIP.

Plus, we have Jurrijens who pitched in just 10 games out of the first 100 and is now back, clearly an upgrade on Kawakami.

That leaves Medlen in the starting rotation. Yes, it's fair to question whether he can keep it up -- he has improved his ERA and WHIP in this, his second season. Then again, he's 24 years old and it's not surprising that he should show progress. He did after all compile a 2.42 ERA and a 1.079 WHIP in four minor league seasons.

Finally, there's the issue you raise of the bullpen wearing out. I assume you mean Billy Wagner, who did blow two saves in the last 10 days. You can't mean Venters who hasn't allowed a run in his last 12 appearances (and has allowed just one earned run in his last 20 appearances).

Moylan and Saito are both having subpar years, based on their career numbers. So basically, any concerns about the pen come down to concerns about Wagner. I would agree that such concerns are fair -- he's 38 years old and has a surgically repaired arm.

But overall, I don't buy the assumption that the Braves have compiled their great 100-game record because a bunch of guys have played over their heads. I don't buy that there will be a "pretty severe regression" to mean.

A regression to mean would actually benefit the Braves -- if everybody matched their career averages in the final 60 games, the Braves would actually get better!

Obviously, injuries and slumps can hit anybody. But the outlook is -- to me -- very good. The Braves open a three-game series in Cincinnati this weekend that's going to be tough -- Atlanta is 24-30 on the road this year.

But Atlanta is 34-13 at home ... the best home record in baseball. And after this weekend, they have 34 home games and 24 road games remaining. That's the most home games in the National League.

Yeah, the Phillies are a concern, especially with the addition of Oswalt. But Atlanta's collapse is not preordinated -- and even if the Phillies do take off, we're well positioned to battle for the wild card.

I'm sorry, but I think your negativity is misplaced -- and not justified by the facts.

[JasonEvans]

Braves won tonight (on the road against the very tough Reds) while the Phils got crushed by the Nats in Oswalt's debut.

Been quite a while since the Braves gained a game on the Phils. A little more breathing room is good.

-Jason "still not worried" Evans

[Olympic Fan]

Braves won tonight (on the road against the very tough Reds) while the Phils got crushed by the Nats in Oswalt's debut.

Been quite a while since the Braves gained a game on the Phils. A little more breathing room is good.

-Jason "still not worried" Evans

Great win last night ... and great night with the Phillies losing -- up four in the loss column (the only measure that matters at this point in the season).

But it may have been costly. Martin Prado injured his right pinky finger sliding home with the sixth run last night. he left the game and was replaced by Gonzales (who had missed his second straight start with an undefined illness). X-rays taken after the game were inconclusive. He'll be re-examined today:

http://www.fresnobee.com/2010/07/30/2024803/prado-leaves-fridays-game.html

Losing Prado for any significant length of time would be a serious blow -- although Infante would be a super short-term replacement, using him for Prado removes the flexibility Infante provides Cox -- for instance, his ability to fill in for the ailing Gonzales or to give Chipper a rest.

Is it too late to make a deal before the deadline? The Braves have to make a quick decision -- if his finger is broken and he's out, they HAVE to move. Do you think the Diamondbacks would give up Kelly Johnson on short notice?

Of course, if Prado is okay, I'm panicking for nothing ... but until I see that he's in the lineup this aftertoon (Jurrjens vs. Arroyo on Fox at 4 p.m.), I'm going to be antsy.

[Duvall]

And the Braves could still come out ahead if Tim Collins develops into a quality player.

Well, so much for that (http://mlb.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/07/braves_land_ankiel_and_farnswo.html). Can someone explain how this deal makes sense on any level?

I guess this does give a new meaning to team chemistry.

[Olympic Fan]

Well, so much for that (http://mlb.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/07/braves_land_ankiel_and_farnswo.html). Can someone explain how this deal makes sense on any level?


For once, we agree ... I HATE the trade, both because I was really excited about Collins' potential and because and I have little regard for either player the Braves picked up.

Ankiel is a great story, but a very mediocre outfielder. Farnsworth is a 34-year-old version of Jo-Jo Reyes -- a million dollar arm and a five-cent head. He has great numbers this season (2.42 ERA), but that's pitching in no-pressure situations for the Royals. Go back and look at his career -- whenever he's asked to pitch meaningful baseball, he folds.

Bad news on Prado -- broken knuckle on his pinkie finger. The 7-10 day absence seems rather optimistic to me, but I'm not a doctor. If it is that short, then I'm okay with Infante filling in (he had three hits in today's loss).

I have no idea what the deal for Wilkin Ramirez was all about. The guy had a pretty good year at AA Erie in 2008 (when he was 22 years old), but has struggled the last two seasons at AA and AAA -- almost 300 strikeouts and barely 200 hits in those season. He has a little speed and a little power, but pretty woeful numbers.

Long term, I'm hearing that the Braves are trying to work a deal for Chone Figgins of the Mariners. He has an expensive long-term deal, so there's a good chance they could get him through waivers. Not sure what it would cost in terms of priospects -- maybe they would like Farnsworth ... he'd be great pitching for a last-place team.

Well, the only good news for the Braves today was watching Brad Lidge blow up in the bottom of the ninth, giving a three-run walkoff homer to Ryan Zimmerman. So despite today's failure, the lead remains four in the loss column.

[rasputin]

For once, we agree ... I HATE the trade, both because I was really excited about Collins' potential and because and I have little regard for either player the Braves picked up.

Ankiel is a great story, but a very mediocre outfielder. Farnsworth is a 34-year-old version of Jo-Jo Reyes -- a million dollar arm and a five-cent head. He has great numbers this season (2.42 ERA), but that's pitching in no-pressure situations for the Royals. Go back and look at his career -- whenever he's asked to pitch meaningful baseball, he folds.

Bad news on Prado -- broken knuckle on his pinkie finger. The 7-10 day absence seems rather optimistic to me, but I'm not a doctor. If it is that short, then I'm okay with Infante filling in (he had three hits in today's loss).

I have no idea what the deal for Wilkin Ramirez was all about. The guy had a pretty good year at AA Erie in 2008 (when he was 22 years old), but has struggled the last two seasons at AA and AAA -- almost 300 strikeouts and barely 200 hits in those season. He has a little speed and a little power, but pretty woeful numbers.

Long term, I'm hearing that the Braves are trying to work a deal for Chone Figgins of the Mariners. He has an expensive long-term deal, so there's a good chance they could get him through waivers. Not sure what it would cost in terms of priospects -- maybe they would like Farnsworth ... he'd be great pitching for a last-place team.

Well, the only good news for the Braves today was watching Brad Lidge blow up in the bottom of the ninth, giving a three-run walkoff homer to Ryan Zimmerman. So despite today's failure, the lead remains four in the loss column.

Did you mean to say Ankiel is a mediocre outfielder, or just a mediocre hitter? The guy is unbelievable in the outfield, both catching and throwing.

[Olympic Fan]

Really costly victory last night for the Braves ... Kris Medlen had to leave the game in the fifth when something popped in his right elbow as a delivered a pitch.

The Braves went on to win 8-3, maintaining their two-game lead on the Phillies.

Medlen is scheduled for an MRI today, but the stories I've read don't sound optimistic. He could be out awhile ... that's a huge blow. The kid has been a really solid No. 4 starter -- 6-2 with a 3.68 ERA and a 1.198 WHIP.

Now the question is, who fills in? Is there another option other than Kawakami (1-9, 4.75 ERA). Anybody ready -- even close to ready -- in Gwinnett?

Meanwhile, big one tonight (on the Major League Network) -- Jurrjens starts against the Giants and the Freak.

[dcarp23]

Now the question is, who fills in? Is there another option other than Kawakami (1-9, 4.75 ERA). Anybody ready -- even close to ready -- in Gwinnett?



Very close to ready is this guy: http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=minor-001mik

My guess is that if Medlen is out long-term, they will turn to Minor. If he just misses a start, Kawakami will get a start.

[Olympic Fan]

Very close to ready is this guy: http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=minor-001mik

My guess is that if Medlen is out long-term, they will turn to Minor. If he just misses a start, Kawakami will get a start.

Good call ...

Wow, 4-1 with a 1.99 ERA and a 0.884 WHIP at AAA. 35 Ks in 31 innings.

I don't think it's rushing him much -- he's 22 years old, lefty and a college star at Vandy (where he was a teammate of David Price), and the No. 7 pick in the draft -- just ahead of Mike Leake, whose been great for the Reds this season.

It looks like they were planning to promote him at the end of August when the rosters expand. I saw a quote from Cox that sounded skeptical about using Kawakami. But you might be right that he'll get one chance before they turn to Minor.

I guess we'll know Monday -- that's Medlen's next turn. He was scheduled to start at Houston.

[northernduke]

I'd much rather see Minor get the start, even if it's a spot start, than Kawakami. He's had some shots this year, granted he has had some tough run support in earlier starts, but has not produced any meaningful results. I just can't believe we're paying the guy $7mm+ a year...

[dcarp23]

I'd much rather see Minor get the start, even if it's a spot start, than Kawakami. He's had some shots this year, granted he has had some tough run support in earlier starts, but has not produced any meaningful results. I just can't believe we're paying the guy $7mm+ a year...

According to Mark Bowman with mlb.com, Minor will be recalled on Monday with Kawakami reporting to Gwinnett.

[Olympic Fan]

For the second time in a little over a week, a team chasing the Braves has gotten a gift victory thanks to an ump's blown call.

The Phillies lost to the Marlins last night in the bottom of the ninth, but were saved by Bob Davidson.

Here's the situation -- a 4-4 tie with the winning run at second base. Gabby Sanchez bounces one down the third-base line, past Ruiz, and into the leftfield corner. The winning run walks home ...

Only Davidson somehow calls it foul -- replays clearly show that the ball bounces just inside the line 10 feet short of the bag and again inside the line 10 feet past the base. No debate -- Davidson blew what should have been an easy call.

http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=300805128&teams=philadelphia-phillies-vs-florida-marlins

Instead of the Marlins getting a 5-4 win -- and the Braves going up three in the loss column -- the Phils win 5-4 in 10 innings and the lead stays at two games.

BTW -- great job by the Braves in beating Tim Lincicome 3-2 ... home runs by Gonzales and (the game-winner) by Hinskie.

[devildeac]

Very close to ready is this guy: http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=minor-001mik

My guess is that if Medlen is out long-term, they will turn to Minor. If he just misses a start, Kawakami will get a start.

Medlen placed on 15 day DL but, with a partially torn ulnar collateral ligament (?), he will be out for the year and may well require Tommy John surgery. Tough loss.

[devildeac]

Very close to ready is this guy: http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=minor-001mik

My guess is that if Medlen is out long-term, they will turn to Minor. If he just misses a start, Kawakami will get a start.

Please no Kawakami...

[Channing]

For the second time in a little over a week, a team chasing the Braves has gotten a gift victory thanks to an ump's blown call.

The Phillies lost to the Marlins last night in the bottom of the ninth, but were saved by Bob Davidson.

Here's the situation -- a 4-4 tie with the winning run at second base. Gabby Sanchez bounces one down the third-base line, past Ruiz, and into the leftfield corner. The winning run walks home ...

Only Davidson somehow calls it foul -- replays clearly show that the ball bounces just inside the line 10 feet short of the bag and again inside the line 10 feet past the base. No debate -- Davidson blew what should have been an easy call.

http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=300805128&teams=philadelphia-phillies-vs-florida-marlins

Instead of the Marlins getting a 5-4 win -- and the Braves going up three in the loss column -- the Phils win 5-4 in 10 innings and the lead stays at two games.

BTW -- great job by the Braves in beating Tim Lincicome 3-2 ... home runs by Gonzales and (the game-winner) by Hinskie.

That was unbelievable. Whats worse is that Davidson refused to give ground after the game, maintaining that the ball was foul and he made the correct call. I guess he thinks the made a banana around the bag and then landed again in fair territory.

[rasputin]

That was unbelievable. Whats worse is that Davidson refused to give ground after the game, maintaining that the ball was foul and he made the correct call. I guess he thinks the made a banana around the bag and then landed again in fair territory.

I'm not surprised. Davidson has long been one of the worst umpires out there.

[Olympic Fan]

The Braves showed off their depth Sunday in beating the Giants.

Chipper, Heyward and McCann all sit out the game (as well as Prado, who is obviously out) and the subs still rough up a pretty hot Giant pitcher (Sanchez).

Home run by David Ross and big hits from Gonzales, Cabrera, Conrad and Infante. It's funny, but since he was undeservedly pitched for the all-star game, Infante has been playing like an all-star.

That was three out of four against a red-hot San Francisco team.

I'll be holding my breath today with Minor getting his first major league start on the road at Houston. The Astros are pretty awful for the season, but they've been hot lately. Plus it's on the road.

But after three in Houston at midweek, the Braves come home for seven games in Atlanta against the Dodgers and Nationals ...

[Channing]

is it just me or has Alex Gonzalez been making a lot of errors since coming over from the Blue Jays? It seems he has been making a costly error every other night or so.

[Duvall]

is it just me or has Alex Gonzalez been making a lot of errors since coming over from the Blue Jays? It seems he has been making a costly error every other night or so.

Six errors now in eleven games. The first five came in Atlanta losses, we'll see about tonight. Should be seven, maybe.

[Channing]

Six errors now in eleven games. The first five came in Atlanta losses, we'll see about tonight. Should be seven, maybe.

I appreciate his ability to make the flashy play (like those scoop double plays he started), and he legged out that infield single to start the 9th, but he is really costing the team right now.

Both errors should have been charged to him (if Infante goes and gets the feed at second he gets plowed by the runner coming in).

Atlanta's defense as a whole has been horrendous lately - Glaus looks 100 years old at 1B. I don't know what was worse - his inability to catch the pick off throw the other day or his belly flop trying to field a broken bat ground ball.

[Olympic Fan]

The bad news is that Chipper hurt his knee making an ordinary fielding play in last night's game:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5453793

No telling how bad it is -- Chipper is out of Wednesday's game and will have an MRI Thursday when the team returns to Atlanta.

The good news is that Brooks Conrad, the guy who replaced him, hit a two-run homer in the ninth to turn a 2-1 deficit into a 3-2 lead ... Glaus added a solo shot as insurance and Wagner shut the door in the bottom of the ninth to secure the win. With the Phillies losing, the Braves went two up in the loss column again.

I just saw the lineup for today's game -- Conrad for Chipper, Diaz for Heyward (day to day with shin splints), Infante for Prado and Ross for McCann (day game after a night game). Tough lineup -- but the subs won the other day, so I'm hopeful ... hopeful that Tommy Hansen is sharp.

[Olympic Fan]

Wow,

Grittty win. The Braves scratch out a 2-1 lead going into the ninth -- an unearned run in the first and an RBI single by Hanson, who gives up one unearned run and two hits in seven innings.

Then Wagner blows the freakin' save.

Top of the 10th, the Braves explode for 6 runs (thanks largely to a pinch-hit grand slam by McCann) and win 8-2 as Saito pitches a perfect bottom of the ninth.

All I can say is Go Dodgers -- beat the Phils tonight and give us a little more breathing room!

[94duke]

The bad news is that Chipper hurt his knee making an ordinary fielding play in last night's game:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5453793

No telling how bad it is -- Chipper is out of Wednesday's game and will have an MRI Thursday when the team returns to Atlanta.

The good news is that Brooks Conrad, the guy who replaced him, hit a two-run homer in the ninth to turn a 2-1 deficit into a 3-2 lead ... Glaus added a solo shot as insurance and Wagner shut the door in the bottom of the ninth to secure the win. With the Phillies losing, the Braves went two up in the loss column again.

I just saw the lineup for today's game -- Conrad for Chipper, Diaz for Heyward (day to day with shin splints), Infante for Prado and Ross for McCann (day game after a night game). Tough lineup -- but the subs won the other day, so I'm hopeful ... hopeful that Tommy Hansen is sharp.

Bad. Probably done for the season.
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38675973/ns/sports-player_news/
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5458167
http://atlanta.sbnation.com/2010/8/12/1619447/report-chipper-jones-has-torn-acl

[DUKIECB]

Bad. Probably done for the season.
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38675973/ns/sports-player_news/
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5458167
http://atlanta.sbnation.com/2010/8/12/1619447/report-chipper-jones-has-torn-acl

Wow, could that be the end of the line for Chipper? You have to believe that he might hang 'em up after this, especially after he was considering retiring anyway. Tough way to go out, that's for sure.

How much does this hurt the Braves down the stretch? Brooks Conrad is playing like a seasoned veteran but can he keep it up?

The Braves need to get healthy quick if they want to keep winning and losing Chipper for the season doesn't help the cause.

[Olympic Fan]

Wow, could that be the end of the line for Chipper? You have to believe that he might hang 'em up after this, especially after he was considering retiring anyway. Tough way to go out, that's for sure.

How much does this hurt the Braves down the stretch? Brooks Conrad is playing like a seasoned veteran but can he keep it up?

The Braves need to get healthy quick if they want to keep winning and losing Chipper for the season doesn't help the cause.

So far, all I'm reading is that Chipper is out for the year ... no official word that his career is done -- although this makes it sound likely.

Too bad. Great player. Great career. Hate to see it end this way, although it's kind of poetic -- his debut was delayed a year because of an ACL injury and now it (likely) ends with another one. Nice symmetry.

As for the Braves, Prado took batting practice today and I'm hearing that he will be reactivated Sunday. When he returns, he goes back to second and supersub Infante moves to third -- with Conrad moving into the supersub role.

Hopefully, Heyward will be back for the opening of the Dodger series Friday.

Losing Chipper hurts, but the Braves have picked up two big wins this week on days when Prado/Chipper/Heyward/McCann were out of the lineup (okay, McCann did have a pinch hit grand slam in one of them, but the Braves had already taken a two-run lead in the 10th before his appearance).

Love the way this team is hanging in there ...

[Channing]

Do the Braves go out and try and make a move? Who is out there that could help out? Figgins? Dunn (did he clear waivers yet)?

[devildeac]

It's over...

Where's Casey, Matt and Reggie when you need them?;):rolleyes:

[Blue in the Face]

Do the Braves go out and try and make a move? Who is out there that could help out? Figgins? Dunn (did he clear waivers yet)?
Dunn didn't clear waivers, so he's not an option. Figgins' contract might get him through to Atlanta, although Seattle had reportedly turned them down on a Figgins trade earlier.

[Olympic Fan]

Dunn didn't clear waivers, so he's not an option. Figgins' contract might get him through to Atlanta, although Seattle had reportedly turned them down on a Figgins trade earlier.

Figgins had a career year last season at age 31 and signed a four-year deal at $9 million a year though 2013 (and is vested for a fifth season if he has 600 plate appearances in 2013).

At his best, he's a fine defensive third baseman and a good top-of-the-order guy who gets on base and can run. No power, but he did have a .395 OBP in 2009 and he stole 42 bases (although he was caught 17 times).

The problem is, at age 32, he's having a terrible year in Seattle. For some crazy reason, they moved him from third to second to make room for Jose Lopex, who is a terrible third baseman. Now they have a terrible third baseman and a mediocre second baseman.

Worse, Figgins has flopped at the plate -- his OBP is down 50 points, his slugging is a horrible .303 and his OPS is a putrid .646. It's not surprising that the Mariners would love to dump his contract. And it's not surprising that he passed waivers -- who would want him, especially when it meant you were committed for $9 million a year through 2013?

As a Brave fan, I wouldn't take him even if the Mariners offered to pay a good portion of his salary. I'd rather see Infante (.764 OPS) or Conrad (.808 OPS) get the at-bats at third. When Prado comes back -- hopefully this weekend -- we will regain the flexibility that we've had for the last month.

I wouldn't mind adding a first-base bat to take some of the load off Glaus, whose play (both offensively and defensively) has deteriorated in the last month. Hopefully, Bobby will platoon Hinskie more at first.

At any rate, if the Braves do make a waiver deal, I'd rather see them deal for a first baseman than a third baseman.

And, please, pass on Chone Figgins!!

[Olympic Fan]

Sorry to double post, but Chipper just announced that he is planning to attempt a comeback next year:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5462016

I'm glad ... I hate to see his career end the way it looked like it did. Of course, there's still a chance that if the knee doesn't respond or if his batting eye fizzles, he'll hang it up next spring, but at least there's hope.

With the advances in ACL surgery, that six-month timetable is pretty routine. He ought to be full speed by mid-February. It's not unrealistic to think he could come back.

But with the surgically repaired knee and his other frequent injury problems the last few years, I would hope he'll give up third base and agree to make the transition to first. I'd hate to go into next season projecting Troy Glaus at first again.

In an ideal world, Chipper starts the season at first and gradually hands the position off the Freeman. He would be a spot starter and a pinch-hit weapon off the bench.

I don't know if his ego could handle that role, but I don't think his body will let him be a 150-game starter any more ... and certainly not at third base.

[COYS]

Sorry to double post, but Chipper just announced that he is planning to attempt a comeback next year:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5462016

I'm glad ... I hate to see his career end the way it looked like it did. Of course, there's still a chance that if the knee doesn't respond or if his batting eye fizzles, he'll hang it up next spring, but at least there's hope.

With the advances in ACL surgery, that six-month timetable is pretty routine. He ought to be full speed by mid-February. It's not unrealistic to think he could come back.

But with the surgically repaired knee and his other frequent injury problems the last few years, I would hope he'll give up third base and agree to make the transition to first. I'd hate to go into next season projecting Troy Glaus at first again.

In an ideal world, Chipper starts the season at first and gradually hands the position off the Freeman. He would be a spot starter and a pinch-hit weapon off the bench.

I don't know if his ego could handle that role, but I don't think his body will let him be a 150-game starter any more ... and certainly not at third base.

I've been away from the Braves thread for a while as I finished moving to a new place, but it's always good to be back. I really hope that Chipper can find some way to come back and go out on top. Symmetry aside, I'd hate to see his career end this way. Chipper at 1st base might be a good option, especially if the Braves brass doesn't think Freddie Freeman will be ready for full time MLB duty by April. I don't really think anyone views Glaus as a real option. However, if I place my loyalty to Chipper aside, I think the best option for the Braves is that Chipper accepts the role that Olympic Fan laid out. Chipper can start the season and Freeman can come up in June, taking over at 1st and transitioning the Braves into life without Chipper. I also think that Wren and company have to work this offseason under the assumption that Chipper will no longer be a middle of the order power hitter. No matter how well his rehab goes, the Braves should assume that outside of Heyward and McCann, we really have no other power bats. Finding some power for third, center, and/or left should be priority number 1 during the offseason.

As for the division race, I'm just looking forward to enjoying it. The phillies have cooled off a bit from their torrid streak and the Braves seem to be stabilizing. We need Prado back ASAP with Chipper gone. However, to create any kind of separation we're going to need Hudson to continue his Cy Young caliber pitching, Jurrjens and Hanson to be consistently good, and Heyward and McCann to really step up and collect the big hits. At this point, I don't think Ankiel or Glaus will give us much besides perhaps a hot streak for a few weeks. I have a feeling we're going to be in a lot of 3-2 games the rest of the way out.

[Olympic Fan]

I've been away from the Braves thread for a while as I finished moving to a new place, but it's always good to be back. I really hope that Chipper can find some way to come back and go out on top. Symmetry aside, I'd hate to see his career end this way. Chipper at 1st base might be a good option, especially if the Braves brass doesn't think Freddie Freeman will be ready for full time MLB duty by April. I don't really think anyone views Glaus as a real option. However, if I place my loyalty to Chipper aside, I think the best option for the Braves is that Chipper accepts the role that Olympic Fan laid out. Chipper can start the season and Freeman can come up in June, taking over at 1st and transitioning the Braves into life without Chipper. I also think that Wren and company have to work this offseason under the assumption that Chipper will no longer be a middle of the order power hitter. No matter how well his rehab goes, the Braves should assume that outside of Heyward and McCann, we really have no other power bats. Finding some power for third, center, and/or left should be priority number 1 during the offseason.

As for the division race, I'm just looking forward to enjoying it. The phillies have cooled off a bit from their torrid streak and the Braves seem to be stabilizing. We need Prado back ASAP with Chipper gone. However, to create any kind of separation we're going to need Hudson to continue his Cy Young caliber pitching, Jurrjens and Hanson to be consistently good, and Heyward and McCann to really step up and collect the big hits. At this point, I don't think Ankiel or Glaus will give us much besides perhaps a hot streak for a few weeks. I have a feeling we're going to be in a lot of 3-2 games the rest of the way out.

Well, Hudson certainly continued his hit streak last night -- eight innings of three-hit, shutout ball.

What a great night -- the Braves winning 1-0 on a night when the Phillies lost 1-0! Three games up in the loss column.

The next two days will tell us a lot -- Lowe (today) has been mediocre. Minor goes Sunday after a shaky first start. To me, those are the two weak spots in the rotation. Hudson had been lights out, while I feel comfortable with Hansen or Jurrjens on the mound.

As for offseason moves, agree that the Braves are going to to add a big power bat, but I'll let this season play out before I start worrying about that.

PS The news on Prado is not great ... not bad, but not great. He took batting practice Friday and felt some discomfort. He now says that he's likely to have a rehab stint in the minors before he retjoings the team. He won't come off the DL and play Sunday against the Dodgers. Maybe another week.

[COYS]

Well, Hudson certainly continued his hit streak last night -- eight innings of three-hit, shutout ball.

What a great night -- the Braves winning 1-0 on a night when the Phillies lost 1-0! Three games up in the loss column.

The next two days will tell us a lot -- Lowe (today) has been mediocre. Minor goes Sunday after a shaky first start. To me, those are the two weak spots in the rotation. Hudson had been lights out, while I feel comfortable with Hansen or Jurrjens on the mound.

As for offseason moves, agree that the Braves are going to to add a big power bat, but I'll let this season play out before I start worrying about that.

PS The news on Prado is not great ... not bad, but not great. He took batting practice Friday and felt some discomfort. He now says that he's likely to have a rehab stint in the minors before he retjoings the team. He won't come off the DL and play Sunday against the Dodgers. Maybe another week.

Nice breakout game for the Glaus and the offense, today. We may have lost yesterday, but it was encouraging to see Lowe turn in a dominant performance. Jurrjens was sharp, today. Hopefully Glaus can stay hot and be a productive hitter for the Braves as we try to get Prado and Heyward fully healthy. I agree about Minor and Lowe being the question-marks in the rotation. Hopefully Minor's ready for the show and got most of his butterflies out in Houston. It's going to be am interesting and exciting second half of August for Braves baseball.

[COYS]

Braves are certainly keeping it interesting. Yet another comeback win in the 9th. Yet another night of poor run support for poor Hanson. He's pitched lights out his last five or so starts with no wins to show for it. Oh well, all the Braves can do is keep winning, anyway, anyhow. Hopefully we'll get a healthy Prado back for Tuesday or Wednesday.

[Olympic Fan]

Amazing comeback -- three runs in the bottom of the ninth for a 4-3 victory.

Conrad had two errors in the seventh to help the Dodgers score two unearned runs and take a 3-1 lead. But he did have a big walk in bthe ninth inning rally.

Going into tonight's game, the Braves had a 1.98 ERA in August -- that will go down after they gave up one earned run in nine innings tonight. That's unbelieveable -- a 1.98 ERA would be Cy Young worthy for a single starter ... for an entire staff it's just plain sick.

[Blue in the Face]

Braves close to adding Derek Lee.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38754600/ns/sports-player_news/

[JasonEvans]

Braves close to adding Derek Lee.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38754600/ns/sports-player_news/

I think this would be an upgrade at 1B... not a huge upgrade but a bit of one. Little question that Lee is a more consistent hitter than Glaus and I like adding another vet who has always been a respected professional.

I wonder if it would allow us to maybe sometimes move Glaus back to his more natural position of 3B which might help his bat a bit too. Then again, the 2B/3B combo of Prado, Infante, and Conrad have been doing a pretty decent job ;)

--Jason "the Braves and Phillies are playing awesome ball right now" Evans

[Duvall]

I think this would be an upgrade at 1B... not a huge upgrade but a bit of one. Little question that Lee is a more consistent hitter than Glaus and I like adding another vet who has always been a respected professional.

I wonder if it would allow us to maybe sometimes move Glaus back to his more natural position of 3B which might help his bat a bit too.

This we can answer. Glaus can barely move at 1B - his body won't let him play 3B at this point. Prado is probably the Braves' best option at 3B for the rest of this season.

[Channing]

HUGE upgrade, imo. If you take out the month of May (when he seemed to catch lightning in a bottle) he has been unbelievably bad at the plate. I havent run the numbers, but my guess is that he at or around the mendoza line without May and the first 15 days of June.

He is an absolute liability on defense (and I would rather have Conrad or Prado in there at third anyway).

[Olympic Fan]

I think this would be an upgrade at 1B... not a huge upgrade but a bit of one. Little question that Lee is a more consistent hitter than Glaus and I like adding another vet who has always been a respected professional.

I wonder if it would allow us to maybe sometimes move Glaus back to his more natural position of 3B which might help his bat a bit too. Then again, the 2B/3B combo of Prado, Infante, and Conrad have been doing a pretty decent job ;)

--Jason "the Braves and Phillies are playing awesome ball right now" Evans

I like this deal, even though Lee's OPS (.751) is just marginally better than Glaus (.749).

But I think Lee has A LOT more potential down the stretch. He's having an awful season, but it's an anomoly -- a year ago he hit .306 with 36 HRs and 111 RBIs and a .972 OPS. He's just 34 so there's no reason that he can't bounce back. He's exactly the kind of veteran who is often energized by going from an also ran to a pennant contender.

Glaus, on the other hand, is the same age, but because of his knees, is playing much older. His last good year was 2008 (and it wasn't nearly as good as Lee's 2009 season) ... he missed almost all of 2009 with his knee problem. We've seen what that's done to him -- he had a great five-week stretch in May/early June, but as the season has worn down, he's worn out.

Just look at their season splits -- Glaus was a solid .802 in the first half of the season ... he's been a dismal .595 in the second half.

Lee was a lousy .695 in the first half ... he's at .939 for the second half. That's not a fluke - that's closer to his career OPS. It was his first half slump that was a fluke.

So I think Derrick Lee, if the Braves can pull it off, would be a BIG upgrade at first base.

Two more points:

-- Jason, you've got to be kidding with the suggestion that Glaus can move to his natural position of third base. With the lack of his mobility due to his knees, he can't even play first any more. Plus, he's far less offensively productive that all the other options at third -- Infante, Prado or Conrad.

If we get Lee, Glaus just becomes another pinch hitter.

-- Why are the Braves so adamant that they are not going to recall Freddie Freeman, who had been tearing up Triple A pitching for the last two months (he's at .308 with 16 homers and 76 RBIs in 147 games at Gwinnett -- and that was after a slow start)?

They talk about his age -- he's almost exactly one month younger than Jason Heyward (he turned 21 on Aug. 9 ... Freeman turns 21 on Sept. 12). He's a year older than Andruw Jones was when he made his spectacular debut and helped the Braves to a pennant.

He's had 144 more games at Triple A than Heyward had -- and 113 more at AAA/AA combined that Heyward.

It seems to be a financial decision -- if they call him up before September, Freeman becomes arbitration eligible a year earlier. But if he can help you win the pennant??? And, as I understand the rule, they have to put him on the 40-man roster before Septmber 1 to make him eligible for postseason.

Let me say that if they do get Lee to play first base, I can live with the decision to keep Freeman in the minors. But if this deal falls through, I say Unleash Freddie Freeman!!

[JasonEvans]

It seems to be a financial decision -- if they call him up before September, Freeman becomes arbitration eligible a year earlier. But if he can help you win the pennant??? And, as I understand the rule, they have to put him on the 40-man roster before Septmber 1 to make him eligible for postseason.

Let me say that if they do get Lee to play first base, I can live with the decision to keep Freeman in the minors. But if this deal falls through, I say Unleash Freddie Freeman!!

There are some in baseball who felt the Braves should have kept Hayward down at AAA until June (like the Nationals did with Strasburg) to preserve an extra year before arbitration. The Braves brass did not choose the cheap way to go that time. I think they can be forgiven if they decide to preserve an extra year of Freddie Freeman on the cheap.

The impressive young core that the Braves have built up in their system is only a big deal if the team can afford to keep them together for a while.

Still, I am torn. It would be horrible to miss the playoffs or flame out quickly in the playoffs because we were getting lousy production from our 1B.

--Jason "ESPN's story (http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=5473305) on the trade says Glaus could move back to 3B, but I tend to agree with you guys that Lee would send Glaus to the bench. Prado and Infante need to play every day!!" Evans

[JasonEvans]

With his 2-for-4 last night, Omar Infante is up to a .341 batting average, more than enough to lead the league...

...but he does not have enough at bats.

At the end of the season, a player will need 502 at bats to qualify for the batting title. Does anyone know if this is official at-bats or is it 502 plate appearances? I think it is plate appearances which would mean that BB, sacrifices, and HBP would count toward the 502 total.

Infante currently has 290 at bats plus 15 walks and (I think) 2 sac flies and 2 sac bunts. That gives him a total of 309 plate appearances. He is still well below the pace he would need to get to 502 (ESPN projects he will end up in the mid-low 400s) but he is wracking up plate appearances at a much higher rate the past couple weeks since Prado and Chipper got injured. Unless he goes into a slump, it is a fairly safe bet he will get close to max at-bats the rest of the season.

The Braves have 43 games remaining. If Infante (who is batting leadoff at this point) gets 4 plate appearances per game for the rest of the season, that would add 172 PAs to his total, putting him at 481 plate appearances. He'd be very close to the 502 he would need.

As most folks know, if a player is a little short of 502 but leads in batting average, they can count the at bats they are short as outs in order to get to 502. In other words, if Infante was 10 at-bats short of 502 but going 0-for-10 would still give him the batting title, then MLB would award him the batting crown.

Infante currently has a fairly sizeable lead over Placido Polanco for the NL batting crown (.341 to .325). In fact, Infante could go 0-for-14 and still be ahead of Polanco.

So, I put it to you fellow Braves fans... will Infante win the batting crown?

--Jason "If he remains the leadoff batter the rest of the season -- I think he will get enough at bats" Evans

[Olympic Fan]

With his 2-for-4 last night, Omar Infante is up to a .341 batting average, more than enough to lead the league...

...but he does not have enough at bats.

At the end of the season, a player will need 502 at bats to qualify for the batting title. Does anyone know if this is official at-bats or is it 502 plate appearances? I think it is plate appearances which would mean that BB, sacrifices, and HBP would count toward the 502 total.

Infante currently has 290 at bats plus 15 walks and (I think) 2 sac flies and 2 sac bunts. That gives him a total of 309 plate appearances. He is still well below the pace he would need to get to 502 (ESPN projects he will end up in the mid-low 400s) but he is wracking up plate appearances at a much higher rate the past couple weeks since Prado and Chipper got injured. Unless he goes into a slump, it is a fairly safe bet he will get close to max at-bats the rest of the season.

The Braves have 43 games remaining. If Infante (who is batting leadoff at this point) gets 4 plate appearances per game for the rest of the season, that would add 172 PAs to his total, putting him at 481 plate appearances. He'd be very close to the 502 he would need.

As most folks know, if a player is a little short of 502 but leads in batting average, they can count the at bats they are short as outs in order to get to 502. In other words, if Infante was 10 at-bats short of 502 but going 0-for-10 would still give him the batting title, then MLB would award him the batting crown.

Infante currently has a fairly sizeable lead over Placido Polanco for the NL batting crown (.341 to .325). In fact, Infante could go 0-for-14 and still be ahead of Polanco.

So, I put it to you fellow Braves fans... will Infante win the batting crown?

--Jason "If he remains the leadoff batter the rest of the season -- I think he will get enough at bats" Evans

Jason,

This came up a couple of years ago when Chipper was making a run at the batting title (which he won) in a year when he missed a bunch of games.

I know one thing -- it's plate appearances, not at bats.

But I THINK instead of a standard number of appearances required, it's based on something like 2.4 plate appearances x the number of TEAM games (which is not necessarily 1962). (not sure if 2.4 is the right number, but it's something likie that).

According to the ESPN story, Lee just had a treatment for a bulging disk. That is a concern. But, depending on the cost, I still think it's worth the option.

[Olympic Fan]

With his 2-for-4 last night, Omar Infante is up to a .341 batting average, more than enough to lead the league...

...but he does not have enough at bats.

At the end of the season, a player will need 502 at bats to qualify for the batting title. Does anyone know if this is official at-bats or is it 502 plate appearances? I think it is plate appearances which would mean that BB, sacrifices, and HBP would count toward the 502 total.

Infante currently has 290 at bats plus 15 walks and (I think) 2 sac flies and 2 sac bunts. That gives him a total of 309 plate appearances. He is still well below the pace he would need to get to 502 (ESPN projects he will end up in the mid-low 400s) but he is wracking up plate appearances at a much higher rate the past couple weeks since Prado and Chipper got injured. Unless he goes into a slump, it is a fairly safe bet he will get close to max at-bats the rest of the season.

The Braves have 43 games remaining. If Infante (who is batting leadoff at this point) gets 4 plate appearances per game for the rest of the season, that would add 172 PAs to his total, putting him at 481 plate appearances. He'd be very close to the 502 he would need.

As most folks know, if a player is a little short of 502 but leads in batting average, they can count the at bats they are short as outs in order to get to 502. In other words, if Infante was 10 at-bats short of 502 but going 0-for-10 would still give him the batting title, then MLB would award him the batting crown.

Infante currently has a fairly sizeable lead over Placido Polanco for the NL batting crown (.341 to .325). In fact, Infante could go 0-for-14 and still be ahead of Polanco.

So, I put it to you fellow Braves fans... will Infante win the batting crown?

--Jason "If he remains the leadoff batter the rest of the season -- I think he will get enough at bats" Evans

Jason,

This came up a couple of years ago when Chipper was making a run at the batting title (which he won) in a year when he missed a bunch of games.

I know one thing -- it's plate appearances, not at bats.

But I THINK instead of a standard number of appearances required, it's based on something like 2.4 plate appearances x the number of TEAM games (which is not necessarily 162). (not sure if 2.4 is the right number, but it's something like that).

According to the ESPN story, Lee just had a treatment for a bulging disk. That is a concern. But, depending on the cost, I still think it's worth the option.

And you are right -- if Infante comes up JUST short of the required plate appearances, they will artificially add appearances to reach the standard -- and if he still leads in average, he'll win the batting title. Not only that, his "official" winning average will be his real average -- and not the artificial average they have to construct to get to the required plate appearances.

If adding plate appearances drops him from the top spot, he doesn't get listed as the No. 2 or No. 3 hitter -- the fake-added appearances rule only applies to determine the batting champion.

[JasonEvans]

Jason,

This came up a couple of years ago when Chipper was making a run at the batting title (which he won) in a year when he missed a bunch of games.

I know one thing -- it's plate appearances, not at bats.

But I THINK instead of a standard number of appearances required, it's based on something like 2.4 plate appearances x the number of TEAM games (which is not necessarily 162). (not sure if 2.4 is the right number, but it's something like that).

The number is 3.1 plate appearances per game the team has played. Seeing as MLB expects every team to play 162 games, that is how we get the 502 PAs needed (it actually comes to 502.2 PAs, but baseball rounds down to 502).

Omar needs to average almost exactly 4.5 PAs per game to get to 502. For a leadoff hitter, that should be doable. In his last 19 games since Prado was hurt and he became the everyday leadoff batter, Infante is averaging 4.5789 at bats per game. As I said, if he remains the leadoff batter through the end of the year, he will get there.

-Jason "It would be a nice feather in his cap after the all-star game controversy" Evans

[Olympic Fan]

The deal is done -- the Braves get Lee and some cash. The Cubs get three secondary pitching prospects:

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=5473305

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I know most of the top prospects in the Atlanta system and I don't think these three guys were major prospects: right-handers Robinson Lopez, 19, and Tyrelle Harris, 23, and lefty Jeffrey Lorick, 22.

[JasonEvans]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I know most of the top prospects in the Atlanta system and I don't think these three guys were major prospects: right-handers Robinson Lopez, 19, and Tyrelle Harris, 23, and lefty Jeffrey Lorick, 22.

Here is (http://capitolavenueclub.com/?p=3004)what appears to be an educated take on the prospects the Braves gave up.


The Cubs get three legitimate prospects. The best of the trio is Robinson Lopez, a 6’2″ right-hander with an extremely live arm and a very projectable frame. His results at class A Rome have been disappointing, but it’s important to remember he’s only 19 years old and this is his first full season. I still hold him in very high regard. The other two are relievers. Lorick, the left hander, was a 20th round pick out of the University of Virginia in last year’s draft. He’s not the typical refined prospect you see from a 4-year college, but he has some late-game potential. Harris was taken one round before Lorick in the same draft. He throws hard and he’s had a successful first full pro season, making it all the way to AA. He’s got a huge frame (6’4″, 235 LB), and like Lorick has some late-game potential.

--Jason "I like the deal -- the Braves can live without 19th/20th round relief pitcher prospects" Evans

[Channing]

ANOTHER walk off/last at bat win. great job by Heyward to make a good swing on a 3-0 count and not get too anxious. Now if the Phillies would just lose a game or two...

[Blue in the Face]

It seems to be a financial decision -- if they call him up before September, Freeman becomes arbitration eligible a year earlier. But if he can help you win the pennant??? And, as I understand the rule, they have to put him on the 40-man roster before Septmber 1 to make him eligible for postseason.

Calling him up wouldn't affect his arbitration clock. He'd have to be among the top 17% of guys in terms of service time qualify as a Super Two and become eligible a year earlier, and that cutoff point is typically 120 days or so. I doubt it's ever been as little as a month and a half, so I think there's basically no chance that Freeman could gain a year of eligibility towards arb by coming up now.

[JasonEvans]

Calling him up wouldn't affect his arbitration clock. He'd have to be among the top 17% of guys in terms of service time qualify as a Super Two and become eligible a year earlier, and that cutoff point is typically 120 days or so. I doubt it's ever been as little as a month and a half, so I think there's basically no chance that Freeman could gain a year of eligibility towards arb by coming up now.

Well, with Lee now on the team, it becomes a moot point. I am sure Freeman will get a September call-up to get some big league at-bats but I cannot imagine they will bring him up before September to sit on the bench and watch Derek Lee play 1B.

--Jason "nice to have both the present and the future looking so bright" Evans

[Olympic Fan]

Well, with Lee now on the team, it becomes a moot point. I am sure Freeman will get a September call-up to get some big league at-bats but I cannot imagine they will bring him up before September to sit on the bench and watch Derek Lee play 1B.

--Jason "nice to have both the present and the future looking so bright" Evans

Agree ... Freeman needs to be at a place where he keeps playing.

One caveat -- there is some concern about Lee's bulging disc. Apparently, the Braves are convinced that it won't be a major problem. He was dealing with it last weekend when he had four homers in three games.

Still, if the injury does prove more serious than they think, it might be smart to bring Freeman up a day BEFORE the Sept. 1 callup so he can qualify for the postseason roster -- just in case.

As it now stands, he's not on the 40-man roster. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't he have to be put on that roster for a September callup? Would it make any real difference to his career status to be put on the 40-man roster and called up on August 31, rather than Sept. 1??

Just as insurance with your two top 1B both physically fragile?

And, Jason, I laughed when you suggested that Glaus might move to third, but I see where during his rehab stint, the Braves are going to work him at third. Personally, I think that's crazy -- he can't move well enough to play first these days. But clearly that's an option they're looking at.

[Blue in the Face]

As it now stands, he's not on the 40-man roster. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't he have to be put on that roster for a September callup? Would it make any real difference to his career status to be put on the 40-man roster and called up on August 31, rather than Sept. 1??
He can't be called up unless he's on the 40 man roster. Adding him, regardless of the date, shouldn't have any impact on his career status - it wouldn't affect his arbitration clock, and they wouldn't call him up and then send him back down, so 2010 wouldn't count as an option year.

[devildeac]

Braves lose but Phils also lose. Farnsworth has sucked so far, tonight giving up two runs in the ninth, minimizing any chance for another late inning come-from-behind win by the Braves.

[JasonEvans]

Farnsworth has sucked so far, tonight giving up two runs in the ninth, minimizing any chance for another late inning come-from-behind win by the Braves.

I really wish I could say I am shocked by this, but his performance has been pretty much exactly what I feared. I've always felt that his reputation was better than his actual results.

That said, he was lights-out when he was briefly with the Braves a few years ago (and he turned that into a ridiculous contract from the Yankees, so good for him).

--Jason "I really, really hope the Braves do not exercise the option in his contract and keep him for next year at $5+ million" Evans

[rasputin]

I really wish I could say I am shocked by this, but his performance has been pretty much exactly what I feared. I've always felt that his reputation was better than his actual results.

That said, he was lights-out when he was briefly with the Braves a few years ago (and he turned that into a ridiculous contract from the Yankees, so good for him).

--Jason "I really, really hope the Braves do not exercise the option in his contract and keep him for next year at $5+ million" Evans

Farnsworth's reputation with several clubs (especially the Tigers) was that he was always lights out in a game in which his team was ahead by 10 or behind by 10, but that he was terrible when the game was on the line.

[Channing]

another day another 9th inning rally and win.

i couldn't believe both Lee and Melky went up hacking when Marmol hadn't been able to throw a strike. I started cursing Ankiel for the same approach, but he was able to stay on top of one and really drive it.

Would love to see a sweep of the struggling cubs here...

[COYS]

No 9th inning rallies needed today. Infante and Heyward carried the offense. Minor has been impressive, as well. Take back a bad fastball to Ramirez and he would have had a masterful performance. 6 IP, 12 K, 1 BB, 6 H . . . the 3 earned runs don't do his performance justice, in my opinion. I think it's safe to say that Minor's got the 5th rotation covered for the time being. It's an incredibly small sample size, but his numbers suggest he will at the very least be the equal of Lowe, and likely just a bit better. Let's hope Heyward can keep his power outburst going. If Lee can give us better production than Glaus and Heyward can up his power numbers just a bit during the last month-plus of the season, I really like our chances.

Also, all those people questioning Infante's inclusion in the all star game (and I must put myself among that number) are eating their words right now. How many teams have a bench so deep that they can take an All Star 2b, move him to third to replace a former All Star and future Hall of Famer, and then plug another All Star 2b in who is currently playing even better than the original All Star 2b played?

[Olympic Fan]

With his 2-for-4 last night, Omar Infante is up to a .341 batting average, more than enough to lead the league...

...but he does not have enough at bats.

At the end of the season, a player will need 502 at bats to qualify for the batting title. ...The Braves have 43 games remaining. If Infante (who is batting leadoff at this point) gets 4 plate appearances per game for the rest of the season, that would add 172 PAs to his total, putting him at 481 plate appearances. He'd be very close to the 502 he would need.

--Jason "If he remains the leadoff batter the rest of the season -- I think he will get enough at bats" Evans

Just thought I'd update this after Sunday's game. With four hits, Infante raised his average to .349.

He's now at 333 plate appearances (312 ABs, 17 BB, 4 sacrifices, O HBP).

So he needs 169 plate appearances in Atlanta's final 38 games. That works out to 4.45 a game. It's doable, but it's going to be close.

Interesting (to me anyway), but if the Braves and the Phillies end up in a deat heat and have to play a one-game playoff, that game would count in the seasonal stats (the playoffs don't). That would raise the bar for Infante to 505 plate appearances (actually 505.3, but that rounds down to 505).

[JasonEvans]

Just thought I'd update this after Sunday's game. With four hits, Infante raised his average to .349.

He's now at 333 plate appearances (312 ABs, 17 BB, 4 sacrifices, O HBP).

So he needs 169 plate appearances in Atlanta's final 38 games. That works out to 4.45 a game. It's doable, but it's going to be close.

Interesting (to me anyway), but if the Braves and the Phillies end up in a deat heat and have to play a one-game playoff, that game would count in the seasonal stats (the playoffs don't). That would raise the bar for Infante to 505 plate appearances (actually 505.3, but that rounds down to 505).

I am in love with the Infante race!! It is almost as much fun for me as the race with the Phils... almost ;)

The key is going to be whether he continues to bat leadoff in every game the rest of the year. There has been talk of Glaus resting a bunch and then coming back to play some 3B. If that happens, they would likely move Prado to 2B and give Infante a day off. A couple days off would scuttle his chances of getting to 502.

The other thing to watch is how much of a cushion he maintains on the 2nd place batter in case he comes up short of 502. Votto is in 2nd place right now with a .3231 average. Infante 's .3493 means that he could go 0-for-27 and still be batting .3215. In other words, if the season ended today and Infante was 27 at-bats short of 502, he would still win the batting crown. That cushion is a very big deal in all this. If Omar can stay hot and keep his batting average close to where it is now, he gives himself a significant cushion that may be the deciding factor.

Since he moved into the leadoff spot on July 29th, 24 games ago, Infante has averaged 4.583 plate appearances per game.

--Jason "Hudson has a shot at Cy Young -- right now it is Wainwright but Hudson and Halladay (and maybe Jimenez) are close" Evans

[Olympic Fan]

I am in love with the Infante race!! It is almost as much fun for me as the race with the Phils... almost ;)

The key is going to be whether he continues to bat leadoff in every game the rest of the year. There has been talk of Glaus resting a bunch and then coming back to play some 3B. If that happens, they would likely move Prado to 2B and give Infante a day off. A couple days off would scuttle his chances of getting to 502.

The other thing to watch is how much of a cushion he maintains on the 2nd place batter in case he comes up short of 502. Votto is in 2nd place right now with a .3231 average. Infante 's .3493 means that he could go 0-for-27 and still be batting .3215. In other words, if the season ended today and Infante was 27 at-bats short of 502, he would still win the batting crown. That cushion is a very big deal in all this. If Omar can stay hot and keep his batting average close to where it is now, he gives himself a significant cushion that may be the deciding factor.

Since he moved into the leadoff spot on July 29th, 24 games ago, Infante has averaged 4.583 plate appearances per game.

--Jason "Hudson has a shot at Cy Young -- right now it is Wainwright but Hudson and Halladay (and maybe Jimenez) are close" Evans

I agree with you -- the Infante race is fascinating.

Just to take it one step farther -- at the 3.1 standard, he would need 384 plate appearances at the moment to qualify (3.1 x 124 games). Since he has 333, then would add an 0-for 51 stretch to reach the minimum at the moment -- which would lower his average to .300 on the nose (actually .300275).

Obviously as he plays more and narrows the gap between his plate appearances and his required plate appearances, his fictional average will rise.

He's still got a tough road -- he's got to maintain his high average and he's got to play almost every day.

It's going to be fun to watch.

PS Don't count Prado out of the batting race. He's at .318, just behind Votto. And Prado already has 507 plate appearances, so no worries there.

[JasonEvans]

Hand in hand with this discussion is the possibility that something truly amazing will happen and we will get a triple crown winner. Both Pujols and Votta have a very legit shot at it.


Name BA HR RBI
Pujols .316 32 89
Votto .323 29 86

I think I like Pujols chances of raising his batting average more than Votto's chances of catching The Machine in home runs. Still, both guys have a shot at something that has not been done in like 80 years in the NL.

Note - in home runs, Adam Dunn (31) and Dan Uggla (28) are contenders to break up the party. In RBIs, Casey McGhee has 82 but the real contender is Ryan Howard with 82 through just 106 games. If Howard maintains the pace he was on before getting injured, he will win the RBI race.

--Jason "There are no AL triple crown contenders but Miguel Cabrera and Josh Hamilton are having sick seasons" Evans

[devildeac]

Curses. Had a chance to add a game to the lead last PM with the Phils losing to the Astros but the usually very reliable Venters gave up a run in the 8th to the Rockies and the Braves couldn't sneak another last AB win.:(

[COYS]

Curses. Had a chance to add a game to the lead last PM with the Phils losing to the Astros but the usually very reliable Venters gave up a run in the 8th to the Rockies and the Braves couldn't sneak another last AB win.:(

It's a bummer, but at least the Phils lost. I really like where we are, right now. The offense seems to be clicking more. Prado seems to be playing really well despite continued pain in his finger. Infante, to me, is just an amazing story. I remember when the Braves dealt for him there were many who felt that Jose Ascanio (the reliever we sent to the Cubs for Infante) was going to be a stud and Infante was not much more than a serviceable back up without much potential on offense. Instead, the Braves have perhaps the best utility player in baseball. He can play every position in the field except for pitcher or catcher and he can hit with the best of them, whether he's been sitting for three days or playing every day. If Prado was our MVP during the first half of the season, Infante may likely wind up being the MVP of the second half.

Here's hoping that Infante earns just enough AB to tie Prado for the batting crown after his adjusted average is weighed. Question for JasonEvans or Olympic fan: Let's say Infante finishes the season with a .340 average but short of the at bats necessary to qualify. After calculating Infante's artificial average based on going 0 for x number of plate appearances that he needs to qualify, he ties Prado at .325 (the numbers are arbitrary, of course). I don't know how many decimal places they use as tie breakers, but if the two are actually tied at .325, could they share the crown? That would be an interesting trivia question. Who were the two teammates who tied for the batting title in 2010 despite the fact that one had an average of .340 and the other an average of .325? Not only would that be an really cool event for baseball, but it would also be incredible for a medium level prospect like Prado and a career utility man like Infante to win a batting title in the same year and on the same team (and hopefully leading the team to a division title, as well).

[Olympic Fan]

It's a bummer, but at least the Phils lost. I really like where we are, right now. The offense seems to be clicking more. Prado seems to be playing really well despite continued pain in his finger. Infante, to me, is just an amazing story. I remember when the Braves dealt for him there were many who felt that Jose Ascanio (the reliever we sent to the Cubs for Infante) was going to be a stud and Infante was not much more than a serviceable back up without much potential on offense. Instead, the Braves have perhaps the best utility player in baseball. He can play every position in the field except for pitcher or catcher and he can hit with the best of them, whether he's been sitting for three days or playing every day. If Prado was our MVP during the first half of the season, Infante may likely wind up being the MVP of the second half.
Here's hoping that Infante earns just enough AB to tie Prado for the batting crown after his adjusted average is weighed. Question for JasonEvans or Olympic fan: Let's say Infante finishes the season with a .340 average but short of the at bats necessary to qualify. After calculating Infante's artificial average based on going 0 for x number of plate appearances that he needs to qualify, he ties Prado at .325 (the numbers are arbitrary, of course). I don't know how many decimal places they use as tie breakers, but if the two are actually tied at .325, could they share the crown? That would be an interesting trivia question. Who were the two teammates who tied for the batting title in 2010 despite the fact that one had an average of .340 and the other an average of .325? Not only would that be an really cool event for baseball, but it would also be incredible for a medium level prospect like Prado and a career utility man like Infante to win a batting title in the same year and on the same team (and hopefully leading the team to a division title, as well/


All I know is that they would calculate the race down to the last decimal. While baseball does round numbers up and down, for purposes of determining statistical champs, they don't round numbers.

The scenario you mention -- that Prado and Infante's adjusted average end up exactly equal is possible, but extremely unlikely (because they would not be rounded). Don't know what they would list the averages as -- it might be as you suggest: that Prado is listed at .325 and Prado at .340. I know that if Infante were to win with an adjusted average, he would be "listed" at his actual average, not hios adjusted average.

BTW Last night I heard a long discussion on the MLB Network about the race between Vatto and Pujols for the triple crown. And while they covered almost everything, there was no mention of the possibility that Infante would qualify for the batting title and blow them both away.

BTW (2) Infante raised his average to .350 with a 2-for-5 night in Denver ... and also stayed on pace to get enough plate appearances.

[devildeac]

Braves and Phils both lose last PM. The Braves gave up a couple unearned runs in the botton of the 8th making another 9th inning rally/win much less likely. At least it wasn't Farnsworthless on the mound.

[jimsumner]

Well that was ugly.

Braves led Rockies 10-1, loss 12-10.

[devildeac]

Well that was ugly.

Braves led Rockies 10-1, loss 12-10.

Man, that's more than ugly. That's disastrous. And from one of the best 'pens in MLB. Blecchh.

[JasonEvans]

Of course they lost. Kyle Farnsworthless pitched in the game. The Braves, a team that wins close to 60% of its games ordinarily are just 3-5 in games in which Farnsweasel has appeared.

Seriously, this game combined with the Phillies 8 run comeback a week or so ago may really come back to haunt us at the end of September.

BTW, the Phils lost tonight too. We got swept at Colorado -- a team that still has aspirations of getting in the playoff hunt and club with the second best home record in all of baseball -- while the Phils were swept at home by Houston, one of the bottom teams in the NL.

--Jason "10 runs in 3 innings and 0 runs in 6-- whew!" Evans

[devildeac]

Of course they lost. Kyle Farnsworthless pitched in the game. The Braves, a team that wins close to 60% of its games ordinarily are just 3-5 in games in which Farnsweasel has appeared.

Seriously, this game combined with the Phillies 8 run comeback a week or so ago may really come back to haunt us at the end of September.

BTW, the Phils lost tonight too. We got swept at Colorado -- a team that still has aspirations of getting in the playoff hunt and club with the second best home record in all of baseball -- while the Phils were swept at home by Houston, one of the bottom teams in the NL.

--Jason "10 runs in 3 innings and 0 runs in 6-- whew!" Evans

The haunting will also come from the 2 absolute gifts the umpires gave the Phils in the last month or so. This first was pictured in this thread with the Giants' winning run being called out at the plate in the bottom of the ninth when tag was applied WAY late, if at all. The 2nd was the winning run the Marlins didn't score on the ball that went over 3rd base, landed about 6 inches inside fair territory and Big Blind Bob Davidson never saw it land.http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/14.gif

[COYS]

The haunting will also come from the 2 absolute gifts the umpires gave the Phils in the last month or so. This first was pictured in this thread with the Giants' winning run being called out at the plate in the bottom of the ninth when tag was applied WAY late, if at all. The 2nd was the winning run the Marlins didn't score on the ball that went over 3rd base, landed about 6 inches inside fair territory and Big Blind Bob Davidson never saw it land.http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/14.gif

We'll have a chance to right some of those wrongs when we face the Phils head to head. Yesterday was terrible, but it's balanced by some of our other miraculous comebacks . . . especially our 7 run ninth inning against the Reds way back in May. That's the good thing about baseball. The season is so long there are plenty of chances to overcome flukes or the occasional disaster. If someone asked me at the beginning of the season if I'd go ahead and take the Braves leading the east by 2.5 games with about 40 remaining, my answer would've been "Heck Yes!!" We just need to regroup and put together some wins.

[jimsumner]

"Of course they lost. Kyle Farnsworthless pitched in the game. The Braves, a team that wins close to 60% of its games ordinarily are just 3-5 in games in which Farnsweasel has appeared."

In 2007 my wife and I attended a Yankees-Toronto game in Yankees Stadium. Farnsworth came in for the Yanks around the seventh or eighth inning. I have attended a lot of sporting events in my life but I have never heard the volume of booing that I heard when Farnsworth entered the game. When Yankees fans turn on a player, they turn on a player. And they turned on Farnsworth with a vengeance. Trading him was a mercy for him.

[Duvall]

The last-place Astros complete a four-game road sweep of the Phillies, and the Braves actually gain a half-game after a tough week.

[COYS]

The last-place Astros complete a four-game road sweep of the Phillies, and the Braves actually gain a half-game after a tough week.

Way to go Astros. Nice break for the Braves. It's almost uncanny that the Braves and Phils have completely mirrored each other for such an extended time until today, when the schedules stopped lining up. Hopefully the friendly confines of Turner Field will yield a few more W's in the coming days.

[Olympic Fan]

Way to go Astros. Nice break for the Braves. It's almost uncanny that the Braves and Phils have completely mirrored each other for such an extended time until today, when the schedules stopped lining up. Hopefully the friendly confines of Turner Field will yield a few more W's in the coming days.

The schedule should favor the Braves over the next week or so. The Phillies start a series in San Diego, followed by a series in Los Angeles, then a series in Denver. The Braves get the Marlins at home, the Mets at home, then a series in Miami.

There are 35 games left for both teams and the Braves lead by three games. That means that Atlanta's magic number is 33.

Let the countdown begin!

[JasonEvans]

The Phillies start a series in San Diego...

Is there any argument at all that the Phils taking a couple from the Padres might not be a terrible thing? The Braves are dominant at home, but are 4 games back of the Pads for NL Home Field Advantage. Heck, they are tied with the Reds right now and might not even have HFA in the first round.

I am not sure -- though stretching out our lead on the Phils to 5 or 6 games would be really sweet and might make the home stretch a lot easier ;)

--Jason "I may be insane" Evans

[Highlander]

Is there any argument at all that the Phils taking a couple from the Padres might not be a terrible thing? The Braves are dominant at home, but are 4 games back of the Pads for NL Home Field Advantage. Heck, they are tied with the Reds right now and might not even have HFA in the first round.

I am not sure -- though stretching out our lead on the Phils to 5 or 6 games would be really sweet and might make the home stretch a lot easier ;)

--Jason "I may be insane" Evans

Having a better record than the Padres is meaningless if the Phils win the division and the Braves miss the wild card. I say win every game you can, and let the other teams work out for themselves. I'm more concerned with the 6 games remaining the Braves have with the Phils. The one at the end of the season could very well decide the division.

On a side note, I wanted to thank the Bravos fans for bringing this casual fan back onto the bandwagon. About the only part of baseball I enjoy is the last month of the season and the playoffs, and then only when I have a dog in the hunt. I haven't followed the Braves closely in a long time (think Murphy and Hubbard), but I find myself checking the box scores every morning to see how they did, cursing every loss, and cheering at every Phils misstep.

[Duvall]

Is there any argument at all that the Phils taking a couple from the Padres might not be a terrible thing?

No.

You're talking about changing the site of one game in a seven-game series that might not even happen. That's not nearly as important as improving the Braves' chances of winning the division, and of making the postseason.