Plumber

[DukeFencer]

I rent a house in very poor quality. We have a ton of plumbing and heating/air conditioning issues. Starting last March we've had plumbers in and out of here. My landlord loves to send "friends" in to fix things instead of qualified professionals, and they never do the job adequately. We got a certified plumber/HVAC specialist in last spring and he did a consultation and called the landlord with a list of major problems (simple upkeep that is supposed to be done every 3-5 years but hadn't been done in 20) The landlord took the list and got a "friend" to "take care of it."

It's now December and we still have no working thermostat, leaky toilets, a hot water heater that's close to death and not up to code, etc. The plumbers were here today and spent an hour and a half looking at EVERYTHING in the house to figure out why our water bill has doubled. They charged a fee for that. Is that wrong? Our landlord is angry, but the last time we called this company out they troubleshooted all the problems and didn't get the benefit of actually getting the job. Is it common for plumbers to charge nothing to check things out, or is it reasonable to them to charge for their initial time? Especially if it's the second time at a house.

Thanks!

[allenmurray]

I am not a lawyer, but what the plumber did seems reasonable to me. I imagine if he gets the job that he/she could be persuaded to take the diagnostic charge off of the bill.

[Pacer]

Are you saying that the bill for it is going to the landlord? If the landlord didn't approve of the expenditure before you brought out the plumber, then I don't think it is the landlord's responsibility to pay that amount...

I'm not saying what you did isn't reasonable... but it is all dependent upon what is spelled out in your lease and what steps you'd taken previously. (Often leases state that the structure and HVAC are on the landlord, but that clogged drains and toilets and maintentance thereof are on the tennant... clearly, yours could vary).

Now, as you said, the doubling of the water bill was new... had you given the landlord notice of this and adequate time to get out there before calling the plumber?

(By the way, a doubling of the water bill is almost always a leaking toilet. replacing the flapper often takes care of it. In the mean time, you can stop the leaking by shutting off the valve at the wall between uses... this is clearly just a stopgap until you can get it fixed.)

So, I suspect that your landlord is a louse and wouldn't have taken care of it and your actions are probably the most sensible... however, it doesn't make it the most defensible decision.

I'd write something to him saying that his inaction is costing you money in the form of water bills, and that to the extent that he doesn't take care of it, you will either 1) get it fixed and withold the cost from your next rent payment (see what your lease says about this... sometimes it is specifically forbidden) or 2) tell him that you will be billing him for any overage in the water bill that is suffered after you notified him that is due to his inaction or sub-standard repairs.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

I rent a house in very poor quality. We have a ton of plumbing and heating/air conditioning issues. Starting last March we've had plumbers in and out of here. My landlord loves to send "friends" in to fix things instead of qualified professionals, and they never do the job adequately. We got a certified plumber/HVAC specialist in last spring and he did a consultation and called the landlord with a list of major problems (simple upkeep that is supposed to be done every 3-5 years but hadn't been done in 20) The landlord took the list and got a "friend" to "take care of it."

It's now December and we still have no working thermostat, leaky toilets, a hot water heater that's close to death and not up to code, etc. The plumbers were here today and spent an hour and a half looking at EVERYTHING in the house to figure out why our water bill has doubled. They charged a fee for that. Is that wrong? Our landlord is angry, but the last time we called this company out they troubleshooted all the problems and didn't get the benefit of actually getting the job. Is it common for plumbers to charge nothing to check things out, or is it reasonable to them to charge for their initial time? Especially if it's the second time at a house.

Thanks!
Especially in today's economic times, many of those who provide services really can't afford to provide multiple free consults for the same problem. Your landlord is the central problem. Because you pay the utilities, he has no real incentive to make improvements despite what the codes may require.

I know that having to move is distasteful and a hassle, but are you in a position to consider that? Even paying somewhat higher rent elsewhere might cost you less in the long run, especially if the utility costs aren't inflated by a landlord's poor maintenance.

[DukeFencer]

I've been discussing this with him since March, which is the approximate time that we noticed one of the upstairs toilets leaked in to the kitchen. 4 plumbers later (2 of whom never showed and he claimed that he paid them without even asking if they showed up) and the toilet no longer leaks into the kitchen, and has a new flap, but the other fixtures in the tank are old and so it still leaks in to the pipe. For this reason, we DO keep the water turned off between uses! Which seems to me we shouldn't have to do, but deal with it. One of the suggestions from the plumber today was that the other 2 flaps in the house do need to be replaced. My landlord doesn't seem to care about the quality of anything in the house. Another thing the plumbers noted is that the washer/dryer connections are continually leaking despite the fact that my landlord sent "a friend" to "turn them off" 6 months ago after they were making the kitchen floor bubble up. The plumbers pointed out the whole wall is covered in mold and said it probably goes all the way back to the sheetrock.

The thermostat needs to be replaced upstairs and we can't really use the heat until he does that. We've also been asking for that since March. He said he's going to send a "friend" to deal with that and I demanded it be this week. He won't even discuss the plumbing issues until after that's taken care of, and at this point is saying he would rather just pay our water bill than fix anything, which I guess would be better than nothing.

Our lease ran from August 2008 to August 2009 and he keeps saying he mailed us a new one to sign but it has yet to show up. At this point we're talking about finding somewhere else to live and just walking, since technically we have no legal commitment to him


Thanks for all the helpful advice/suggestions, and also for a place to vent!

[DukieInKansas]

DukeFencer
Christian Laettner Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 145

On a brighter note, you are currently Christian Laettner.

Good luck with the move. It sounds like that is the best step - get better living conditions. If you care enough to report problems, you are probably a good tenant and someone will be lucky to have you move in.

[whereinthehellami]

You don't want to mess around with mold. If the place has mold in the walls, I would get out of there sooner rather than later.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I've been discussing this with him since March
The plumbers pointed out the whole wall is covered in mold and said it probably goes all the way back to the sheetrock.

The thermostat needs to be replaced upstairs and we can't really use the heat until he does that.

Our lease ran from August 2008 to August 2009 At this point we're talking about finding somewhere else to live and just walking, since technically we have no legal commitment to him

Don't walk. RUN! In today's market of huge vacancies almost everywhere, you should be able to find a new place that is much much much better, and probably cheaper, with deals for free months of rent and maybe utilities too. Your current landlord doesn't deserve your money. He certainly wouldn't get any of mine, and wouldn't have until he fixed all the problems.

[Highlander]

You don't want to mess around with mold. If the place has mold in the walls, I would get out of there sooner rather than later.

Agreed. A friend of mine had mold in her sheetrock and it made her kids sick. The issue was from the previous owner who didn't disclose it to her. She couldn't live in the house, but she couldn't sell it either. She ended up having to pay thousands out of pocket to have the sheetrock stripped out, the leak fixed, framing disinfected, and the entire house put back together.

If there is a hint of mold and you have no obligation, get the heck out of dodge.

[CameronBlue]

Email me if you're still looking for a place. I have a property off Anderson St (near Chapel Hill Rd.), 3 BRs 1 bath for $700. No maintenance or pest issues. Has a downstairs apartment, seperate entrance/drive rented to a former NYC options trader who was recently "Bernie Madoffed". Here's the craigslist link:
http://raleigh.craigslist.org/apa/1482196976.html

Max 2 people.

[DukeFencer]

Thanks for all the support! I am Craig's list shopping NOW! CameronBlue, thank you for the offer, but I live in the Atlanta area. DukieinKansas, that was a much brighter note! Definitely cheered me up! And we are great tenants - this house is in far better shape than when we moved in, which is hard to do considering how crappy it really is (but when the price is right.... )
Now if we can only get out of here before the hot water tank explodes...

[Reisen]

There are good landlords out there. As a landlord myself, my perspective:

A- Toilet flaps are super cheap, and easy to replace. I'd probably offer the tenant something reasonable out of his rent to buy the part and replace it himself ($50-$100).

B- Mold in the unit is a nightmare for the landlord, and he's an idiot for being penny wise and pound foolish with regards to leaks.

C- As a tenant myself a few years ago, we hit a HUGE water bill one month. We called the landlord, he called a plumber, and it turns out there was a leak outside the unit but after the meter. They had to dig up the yard to fix it. The landlord offered to split the water bill with us, and we accepted to be nice, but still paid more than what our normal water bill would have cost us that month. I can see a leaky toilet being a tenant's responsibility, but leaky underground pipes outside the unit, no way...

[OZZIE4DUKE]

There are good landlords out there. As a landlord myself, my perspective:

A- Toilet flaps are super cheap, and easy to replace. I'd probably offer the tenant something reasonable out of his rent to buy the part and replace it himself ($50-$100).
The flappers are ~$5 at Lowe's or Home Depot, and take about 2 minutes to change. The landlord should buy the part and change it himself, rather than spending money for a plumber. If that's not reasonable (absentee landlord, etc., and I'm including a lot in the etc. category) then the property manager should take care of it for the landlord. Barring that, the tenant should do it himself and send the landlord a copy of the bill with his rent check, reducing the rent payment by an equal amount.

[CameronBlue]

There are good landlords out there. As a landlord myself, my perspective:

A- Toilet flaps are super cheap, and easy to replace. I'd probably offer the tenant something reasonable out of his rent to buy the part and replace it himself ($50-$100).

B- Mold in the unit is a nightmare for the landlord, and he's an idiot for being penny wise and pound foolish with regards to leaks.

C- As a tenant myself a few years ago, we hit a HUGE water bill one month. We called the landlord, he called a plumber, and it turns out there was a leak outside the unit but after the meter. They had to dig up the yard to fix it. The landlord offered to split the water bill with us, and we accepted to be nice, but still paid more than what our normal water bill would have cost us that month. I can see a leaky toilet being a tenant's responsibility, but leaky underground pipes outside the unit, no way...

If the leak is on the homeowner side of the meter some municipalities (like Durham County) will offer a refund based upon average use after you provide a receipt showing that the repairs have been made. I've encountered just this problem. Pipes, even the leaky toilet should be the landlord's concern.

[CLT Devil]

I own a few properties, and might be able to shed some light on your rights in regards to walking on the property, and having the landlord pay for your plumbing woes.

First of all, I hate to hear about your problems. I had a really bad landlord in Derm as well...I won't call him out, but BS might have possibly been his initials.

First of all, you can not withold rent in lieu of your landlord doing repairs. In this case you have to go ahead and pay your rent, then try and get back whatever you had to pay in small claims court. A pain, but if you stop paying you risk losing your security deposit and will never get paid back for what money you have spent on the place.

Also, in most cases your lease will revert to a month-to-month after the initial year period. If this is the case make sure you give the proper amount of notice, usually 30 days, before moving out. Again, you risk losing your security deposit if you don't.

Mold can be bad, but in most cases the 'mold' is actually a mildew which is not harmful at all. I've had people claim that mold got them sick because they had asthma, yet these same people smoke a pack of cigarettes a day...so you never know. Bottom line is; Mold is not as hard to get rid of if you get to it soon, and cut off the problem (ie. a leaky pipe). But if this is an ongoing issue and the landlord is only fixing cosmetic issues on the surface, not the root of the problem, my advice would be to put in your 30 days notice and get out of there. Also, once you're out take the Landlord to small claims court and get back whatever you had to pay out of pocket to repair, so long as you can prove that you notified him of the repair request and he refused/delayed.

Hate to hear your story, but there are a whole lot of empty houses out there.