Tiger Woods' wrecks

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Tiger Woods was in a serious car wreck last night outside his home. He hit a fire hydrant and then a tree in his Caddy Escalade about 2:30 a.m. Apparently the air bags did not deploy. Other than listed as "serious", there are no further details available, even now, 12+ hours later.

As I told my daughter when she was a teen-aged driver, nothing good happens after 1 a.m. out on the roads.

Heeling vibes to Tiger. }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

[Kimist]

Strange incident - apparently "no alcohol involved" which leaves some interesting other possibilities for someone who backs over a fire hydrant and crashes into a tree in his own neighborhood in a one-car accident.

Latest news is stating Tiger has "facial lacerations."

k

[Channing]

just heard they confirmed alcohol was not involved, but charges may be pending?!? Hope it isnt some type of domestic issue...

[killerleft]

The news is possibly not so bad. Now there are reports that he was treated for facial lacerations and has been released. Sounds like more info is needed before we can believe any reports yet, but if the airbags didn't deploy he wasn't going very fast.

[soccerstud2210]

The news is possibly not so bad. Now there are reports that he was treated for facial lacerations and has been released. Sounds like more info is needed before we can believe any reports yet, but if the airbags didn't deploy he wasn't going very fast.

ya i think they said that it was under 33 mph if the bags didnt deploy.

but why would charges be involved if there was no alcohol involved?

interesting

[Shammrog]

Pure speculation - not even a rumor, mind you, just my supposition: methinks he got in a fight with the wife and sped off. No alcohol, and you just don't hit a fire hydrant/tree that hard right in front of your house (at 1 in the morning) unless you are speeding off. People, even happily married ones, do fight.

Thankfully, he is ok though.

[Indoor66]

Pure speculation - not even a rumor, mind you, just my supposition: methinks he got in a fight with the wife and sped off. No alcohol, and you just don't hit a fire hydrant/tree that hard right in front of your house (at 1 in the morning) unless you are speeding off. People, even happily married ones, do fight.

Thankfully, he is ok though.

That was my reaction, as well. A marital spat - probably over burned turkey.

[Heelkiller1]

I would really like to know what happened there. I am sure we will find out the whole story in a day or so

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Pure speculation - not even a rumor, mind you, just my supposition: methinks he got in a fight with the wife and sped off. No alcohol, and you just don't hit a fire hydrant/tree that hard right in front of your house (at 1 in the morning) unless you are speeding off. People, even happily married ones, do fight.

Thankfully, he is ok though.
A) Elin sent him to WalMart for more diapers :D:cool:
B) Elin had beaten the heck out of him in the house, then, after the accident, continued using the same golf club to smash the rear window of the Escalade and beat him some more...

[killerleft]

Diabetes?

[dukestheheat]

A) Elin sent him to WalMart for more diapers :D:cool:
B) Elin had beaten the heck out of him in the house, then, after the accident, continued using the same golf club to smash the rear window of the Escalade and beat him some more...

...the punch on the quip about the golf club here! There had to be something going down in the house for her to come outside and use a GOLF CLUB to break out a window?! :)

dth.

[Pacer]

So, you've been on the other side of the world playing in tournaments... and you get back home, and jet lag is playing havoc with you, so you are up in the middle of the night. An article comes out in the Enquirer saying you've been cheating on your wife, and that the other woman was at the tournament on the other side of the world that you've just returned from. You get in an argument with the wife, and decide to leave the situation. You get in your Escalade, and she isn't done arguing. She smashes the rear glass on your car. So, you hit the gas to get out of there a bit quicker, and you lose control, hitting a fire hydrant and a tree. You may or may not have had time to put on your seatbelt. She runs down the driveway after hearing the crash and then says that the window was broken after the crash. The end.

[Kimist]

(except with some high-priced golf clubs involved)

....end of story!

[TheRose77]

TMZ is reporting domestic argument relating to another woman. Say what you will, but TMZ is usually the first to get the story right.

[JasonEvans]

TMZ is reporting domestic argument relating to another woman. Say what you will, but TMZ is usually the first to get the story right.

Props to Pacer for nailing this one!

There are only a very few reasons you drive away from your house at 2:30 in the morning and about 95% of them are not good.

--Jason "if this is the worst PR debacle of Tiger's life, he's doing pretty darn good" Evan

[weezie]

There are only a very few reasons you drive away from your house at 2:30 in the morning and about 95% of them are not good.


Or maybe he was just trying to get to Taco Bell for a double cheese gordito before their 3am close.
Yeah, that's it :)

[phaedrus]

Props to Pacer for nailing this one!

There are only a very few reasons you drive away from your house at 2:30 in the morning and about 95% of them are not good.

--Jason "if this is the worst PR debacle of Tiger's life, he's doing pretty darn good" Evan

Au contraire, 95% of my reasons are to make Cook-out runs.

[Acymetric]

Au contraire, 95% of my reasons are to make Cook-out runs.

Hey, Taco Bell is still open at that hour too in some places...or does it close at 2? Hmm...

[darthur]

Tiger Woods has now postponed talking to the police about the incident on three consecutive days. Seems pretty weird.

[DevilAlumna]

So, you've been on the other side of the world playing in tournaments... and you get back home, and jet lag is playing havoc with you, so you are up in the middle of the night. An article comes out in the Enquirer saying you've been cheating on your wife, and that the other woman was at the tournament on the other side of the world that you've just returned from. You get in an argument with the wife, and decide to leave the situation. You get in your Escalade, and she isn't done arguing. She smashes the rear glass on your car. So, you hit the gas to get out of there a bit quicker, and you lose control, hitting a fire hydrant and a tree. You may or may not have had time to put on your seatbelt. She runs down the driveway after hearing the crash and then says that the window was broken after the crash. The end.

That's kind of how I figure it, except I think the Mrs. broke the rear windows. What I read is she told police that one window broke from impact with the tree, and the other from the hydrant.

Ummmm, how tall is a fire hydrant that it busts out a window on an Escalade???

My gut feeling is, she's the one who may be in trouble for ahem, being less than truthful with the police, and that's the cause for delay. Gotta get that story straight.

[BD80]

Elin is the only person in the world who can beat Tiger using a golf club.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Elin is the only person in the world who can beat Tiger using a golf club.
If I had been drinking something when I read this, I would have spewed it on the screen. No doubt about it! :D

[hughgs]

That's kind of how I figure it, except I think the Mrs. broke the rear windows. What I read is she told police that one window broke from impact with the tree, and the other from the hydrant.

Ummmm, how tall is a fire hydrant that it busts out a window on an Escalade???

My gut feeling is, she's the one who may be in trouble for ahem, being less than truthful with the police, and that's the cause for delay. Gotta get that story straight.

The fire hydrant causes the car door to crumple a bit which could be a design measure to absorb energy during a real crash. The change in door dimension would then cause the window to break.

[77devil]

Tiger has released a statement. If you believe it, please PM me, I have some real estate in Florida that you should consider buying. Really. Honest.

[Indoor66]

Tiger has released a statement. If you believe it, please PM me, I have some real estate in Florida that you should consider buying. Really. Honest.

I read the statement and if I were advising Tiger, I would tell him to say nothing more about the incident. His response to questions should be "no further comment."

He has no duty or obligation to respond to the voyeurs of the press and society beyond his already made statement. It the State of Florida desires to charge him with a moving violation, they face an uphill battle to convict if Tiger wishes to contest such charges. In reality he would face a minor fine and court costs and the matter would be pled out.

This is much ado about nothing. Minor harm, no foul.

[Jim3k]

Since this is a gated community, I wonder if he was actually on a public street.

If so, maybe the highway patrol has no jurisdiction and he can stiff them entirely. All he would have to do would be pay for the hydrant repair and the damage to the neighbor's tree. And, of course, fix his own car.

[hughgs]

Tiger has released a statement. If you believe it, please PM me, I have some real estate in Florida that you should consider buying. Really. Honest.

Can you put a link to the statement? The only thing I saw was pretty much Tiger saying it was a private matter and that the rumors were false. Since it is private and he doesn't specify the rumors I don't see why I shouldn't believe what I read.

[allenmurray]

The fire hydrant causes the car door to crumple a bit which could be a design measure to absorb energy during a real crash. The change in door dimension would then cause the window to break.

I have a hard time buying it. A couple years ago I was in a Saturn Ion that was rear ended at 35 mph, pushing me into oncoming traffic, so that I was then hit head on. The car was a mess (I was fine because the care was designed to crumple take the impact. No windows were broken despite the car looking like it had been put through a car-size blender. The insurance adjuster told me that windows are very heard to break and will withstand almost anything but a dirict impact by a small object (the larger the object the less likely they are to break).

I really don't care one way or the other about Tiger's personal life, and really wouldn't car if he told everyone to go away and mind their own business. But his explanations take us all for dummies.

[Indoor66]

I have a hard time buying it. A couple years ago I was in a Saturn Ion that was rear ended at 35 mph, pushing me into oncoming traffic, so that I was then hit head on. The car was a mess (I was fine because the care was designed to crumple take the impact. No windows were broken despite the car looking like it had been put through a car-size blender. The insurance adjuster told me that windows are very heard to break and will withstand almost anything but a dirict impact by a small object (the larger the object the less likely they are to break).

I really don't care one way or the other about Tiger's personal life, and really wouldn't car if he told everyone to go away and mind their own business. But his explanations take us all for dummies.

I don't know where the crumple zones and breaking glass material comes from, but it is not from Tiger. Tiger's statement is on his website (http://web.tigerwoods.com/news/article/200911297726222/news/)and should be read before criticizing his position.

I read it to say that he had an embarrassing meeting with human frailty and plans to put it behind him. Next Play.

[hughgs]

I have a hard time buying it. A couple years ago I was in a Saturn Ion that was rear ended at 35 mph, pushing me into oncoming traffic, so that I was then hit head on. The car was a mess (I was fine because the care was designed to crumple take the impact. No windows were broken despite the car looking like it had been put through a car-size blender. The insurance adjuster told me that windows are very heard to break and will withstand almost anything but a dirict impact by a small object (the larger the object the less likely they are to break).

Unfortunately, Saturn doors are designed to rebound, remember the commercial? Thats very different than most cars. Additionally, the Escalade is a very different car than the Ion. One's a coupe, the other is an SUV.

Finally, I think you'll have a hard time comparing the damage results of a direct head-on collision with the damages due to a collision at any other angle. The way the different panels experience the energy, how they absorb energy, etc. are going to be quite different.

I personally don't really care how or why Tiger got into an accident, though I admit I'm curious about his response. The original poster in this sub-thread implied that it was impossible for a fire hydrant could break a window and I offered an alternative explanation.

[weezie]

Since this is a gated community, I wonder if he was actually on a public street.

If so, maybe the highway patrol has no jurisdiction and he can stiff them entirely.

And if it was me ramming into a fire hydrant, even if I lived in a gated community would I get a pass? If there was a fire at someone's house in this gated community and the FD just didn't show up, would the home owner then have a right to sue the city?
Apparently the police were there after the accident, so they must have a prerogative to be there to question the person/s involved.

I think El Tigre is suffering from a case of "Michael Jordanitis" as in, move along little people, avert your eyes from what you are not worthy to behold.
Tiger has got to have better lawyers at his disposal than to stonewall the cops.

[camion]

This is a minor traffic incident aside from the HUGE curiosity factor. I expect nothing significant to come of this legally.

Gossip is another thing entirely. There will be lots of stories and speculation that I don't plan to spend much time on.

I must give kudos to BD80 for the one liner however.

[allenmurray]

Unfortunately, Saturn doors are designed to rebound, remember the commercial? Thats very different than most cars. Additionally, the Escalade is a very different car than the Ion. One's a coupe, the other is an SUV.

Finally, I think you'll have a hard time comparing the damage results of a direct head-on collision with the damages due to a collision at any other angle. The way the different panels experience the energy, how they absorb energy, etc. are going to be quite different.

I personally don't really care how or why Tiger got into an accident, though I admit I'm curious about his response. The original poster in this sub-thread implied that it was impossible for a fire hydrant could break a window and I offered an alternative explanation.

That commercial is over 10 years old. They have not been designed that way for quite a while. Your explanation may be plausible. But unless you are an automotive engineer I find your alternative explanation hard to believe. I've simply witnessed too many minor accidents to find it plausible (Possible? Sure, Plausible? No). that hitting a fire hydrant would shatter the rear wndow. If so, I doubt that manufacturere would want it featured in an advertiswement. "Buy this car, and you too can be safe from minor accidents with out new self-shattering windows". If an Escalade SUV has a window that shatters when it collides with an 18 inch high object I'm glad I can't afford one. BTW - shouldn't he have been driving a Buick?

[allenmurray]

This is a minor traffic incident aside from the HUGE curiosity factor. I expect nothing significant to come of this legally.

Gossip is another thing entirely. There will be lots of stories and speculation that I don't plan to spend much time on.

I must give kudos to BD80 for the one liner however.

Yeah, I'm always hitting fire hydrants at 2:30 in the morning, at such a rate of speed that I am pulled out of the car unconcious - doesn't it happen to everybody?

The curiosity factor is due to the huge Tigeri ndustry - he has sculpted a multi-million dollar image for himself.

[YourLandlord]

Yeah, I'm always hitting fire hydrants at 2:30 in the morning, at such a rate of speed that I am pulled out of the car unconcious - doesn't it happen to everybody?

The curiosity factor is due to the huge Tigeri ndustry - he has sculpted a multi-million dollar image for himself.

In addition, there is the domestic abuse angle, as many are speculating. Just because it was wife - on - husband doesn't make it any more acceptable.

Finally, there is a sex scandal -- and that's been a popular topic of public interest since...well, ever.

[hughgs]

That commercial is over 10 years old. They have not been designed that way for quite a while. Your explanation may be plausible. But unless you are an automotive engineer I find your alternative explanation hard to believe. I've simply witnessed too many minor accidents to find it plausible (Possible? Sure, Plausible? No). that hitting a fire hydrant would shatter the rear wndow.

If you read my post carefully you'll notice that I didn't use the word probable or plausible, so you've raised a strawman. But, to clarify, I'm not an automotive engineer which is why I didn't take any other position that it would be possible. And by the same token I don't think you can say whether a minor accident could cause the rear window to shatter. Without access to details of the accident such as angle of collision, placement of hydrant, etc, to say whether the rear window would break in a minor accident.


If so, I doubt that manufacturere would want it featured in an advertiswement. "Buy this car, and you too can be safe from minor accidents with out new self-shattering windows". If an Escalade SUV has a window that shatters when it collides with an 18 inch high object I'm glad I can't afford one.

Well, I certainly didn't say or imply that any, most, or even some minor accidents should cause the rear window to shatter. You're implying that my post says quite a bit more than it does.


BTW - shouldn't he have been driving a Buick?

Dang, why didn't I think of this :)!

[Indoor66]

His relationship with Buick ended a year or two ago. :)

[OZZIE4DUKE]

His relationship with Buick ended a year or two ago. :)
Yeah, Buick couldn't afford him anymore, what with the GM bankruptcy and all.

[JasonEvans]

Dan Wetzel has an interesting and amusing column (http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/pga/news;_ylt=AqdBQsHuQQLfYNzcgC1cgcg5nYcB?slug=dw-tigeraccident112909&prov=yhoo&type=lgns) on all this today.

He points out that Tiger would be a fool to talk to the police about this. I agree. Ain't gonna happen. His lawyers will say, "charge him with something if you want but we are under no obligation to help your investigation. Buh-bye."

But, the best part are a couple of the jokes--


He hit a tree and a fire hydrant meaning... “He was a mailbox and a parked car away from the Tiger Slam.”


Tiger’s driving has always been erratic, hasn’t it?


Post-crash Tiger slammed his steering wheel against the ground and blamed a photographer for snapping a picture in mid-lane change.

--Jason "what are the odds Tiger plays in that LA tournament this week -- 10%?" Evans

[Indoor66]

--Jason "what are the odds Tiger plays in that LA tournament this week -- 10%?" Evans

Since it is his tournament, I would guess a lot higher than 10%.

[whereinthehellami]

I think El Tigre is suffering from a case of "Michael Jordanitis" as in, move along little people, avert your eyes from what you are not worthy to behold.
Tiger has got to have better lawyers at his disposal than to stonewall the cops.

I agree with this. The stonewall only gives the tabloids more fodder and creative license. Time to man up Tiger and face the music like the rest of us do.

[Indoor66]

I agree with this. The stonewall only gives the tabloids more fodder and creative license. Time to man up Tiger and face the music like the rest of us do.

What does this mean? What is he to "man up" to and what music is he to face? I don't understand your post, please elaborate.

[rskale7]

What does this mean? What is he to "man up" to and what music is he to face? I don't understand your post, please elaborate.

I think it means admit he made a mistake and had an accident. I mean we are human.

I had an accident with a parked car. Worst feeling in my life.

[Bluedog]

I think it means admit he made a mistake and had an accident. I mean we are human.

I had an accident with a parked car. Worst feeling in my life.

He already admitted he made a mistake and had an accident.


I had a single-car accident earlier this week [...] This situation is my fault, and it's obviously embarrassing to my family and me. I'm human and I'm not perfect.

[YourLandlord]

The Florida Highway Patrol is seeking a search warrant for hospital records that would document the treatment Tiger Woods received after an auto accident early Friday morning, TMZ.com has reported, citing unnamed sources.

The Florida state police, according to the Web site's report, want to determine if the injuries Woods sustained resembled those from an auto accident or domestic violence.

The state police think they can show probable cause of a crime during the events that unfolded Saturday morning, the report said.


http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=4699907

[allenmurray]

What does this mean? What is he to "man up" to and what music is he to face? I don't understand your post, please elaborate.

Having an auto accident is his and nobody else's business. I have no problem with that. Domestic abuse is a crime, and covering it up, whether victim or perpetrator, is not okay.

[ncexnyc]

I agree with this. The stonewall only gives the tabloids more fodder and creative license. Time to man up Tiger and face the music like the rest of us do.

I doubt seriously this would help matters. No matter what the man says, there will be some people who claim he's lying.

[hughgs]

Having an auto accident is his and nobody else's business. I have no problem with that. Domestic abuse is a crime, and covering it up, whether victim or perpetrator, is not okay.

Hmm, I'm not sure how to ask a question without getting into PPS territory. Can I PM you a question? I understand if you don't want to get into it. Thanks.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

As is almost always the case, the cover up is worse than the crime. Ask Richard Nixon, Mark McQuire and David Letterman how their solutions worked out. Only Letterman would say his worked out well (as far as we know).

[jacone21]

Since it is his tournament, I would guess a lot higher than 10%.

No real surprise. (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/golf/pga/2009-11-30-chevron-world-challenge_N.htm)

[JasonEvans]

Since it is his tournament, I would guess a lot higher than 10%.

Boo-yah! I was right ;)

The tickets for the Chevron tourney have already been sold (with the anticipation that Tiger would be there). Plus, I am betting that Tiger's charity gets a guaranteed amount from Chevron. The fact that El Tigre will be missing will probably not impact the charity's bottom line.

--Jason "this thing is smelling more and more like Tiger was fleeing from a golf-club wielding spouse who cracked the rear window as he was driving off in haste" Evans

[Indoor66]

Boo-yah! I was right ;)

The tickets for the Chevron tourney have already been sold (with the anticipation that Tiger would be there). Plus, I am betting that Tiger's charity gets a guaranteed amount from Chevron. The fact that El Tigre will be missing will probably not impact the charity's bottom line.

--Jason "this thing is smelling more and more like Tiger was fleeing from a golf-club wielding spouse who cracked the rear window as he was driving off in haste" Evans

That again proves why I shy away from predictions. :mad: :D

[A-Tex Devil]

At the risk of sounding like the "Leave Britney Alone" guy....

(getting under sheet, putting eye make up on and turning on camera)

Leave Tiger Alone!! Leave him Alone!!

He is under no obligation to talk to the cops:

FHP Sgt. Kim Montes said the move was "highly unusual" but that the couple were not required to give a statement. (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/golf/2009-11-29-woods-crash-probe_N.htm)

But TMZ has gone muckraking, like they do, and paid off god knows who at the hospital, police department and community to make news where there shouldn't be any.

Yeah, the story sounds fishy, but so what? I'm not defending Tiger as one of the nicer guys out there, but he has made an effort to live as private of a life as possible. He doesn't put himself out there like so many celebrities and sports figures that we know.

This clearly seems to have stunned Tiger and his camp, and they aren't sure how to best handle it. I think they shouldn't give us the benefit of finding out what happened other than that there was a wreck. We don't deserve to know.

Of course, next tourney he plays in will have the papparazi all over the place screaming "Tiger, tell us about the wreck" "Tiger, does your face still hurt?" "Tiger, are you afraid of your wife," etc. etc. Hope the gallery at the tournament doesn't mind the new golf fans that show up. Gotta love today's entertainment media.

[Pacer]

" he has made an effort to live as private of a life as possible. He doesn't put himself out there like so many celebrities and sports figures that we know."

I disagree, he is a major pitchman. As a pitchman, he is using his likeness and personality to sell goods. He's making a representation to the consumer public and that representation is based off of his reputation. His reputation is pretty clean aside from the over-active frustration on the course. This back story, if true, is distinctly at odds with his previous squeaky-clean rep and is therefore newsworthy, relevant, and fair to be pried into... He is well compensated for lending his reputation to companies. His reputation is thrust into the public all the time. It is not fair to have him paid for publicly branding his good deeds and reputation and then claim that any actions inconsistent with that are private and shouldn't be discussed.

In short, he very publicly markets and profits from the brand of Tiger. This is the downside of that.

[A-Tex Devil]

I disagree, he is a major pitchman. As a pitchman, he is using his likeness and personality to sell goods. He's making a representation to the consumer public and that representation is based off of his reputation. His reputation is pretty clean aside from the over-active frustration on the course. This back story, if true, is distinctly at odds with his previous squeaky-clean rep and is therefore newsworthy, relevant, and fair to be pried into... He is well compensated for lending his reputation to companies. His reputation is thrust into the public all the time. It is not fair to have him paid for publicly branding his good deeds and reputation and then claim that any actions inconsistent with that are private and shouldn't be discussed.

In short, he very publicly markets and profits from the brand of Tiger. This is the downside of that.

Fair enough. But I differentiate that type of publicity with the type you see out of Britney Spears, Lohan, Charlie Sheen, Terrell Owens, Jeremy Shockey types that publicly and gladly flaunt their social lives for everyone to see.

I can, in my mind, align the right for someone to get paid to advertise a product from that person's right to try to live privately. I don't think they are mutually exclusive. If Tiger is out preaching about celibacy, or carousing at bars at all hours, it's different in my mind. Tiger is also not a politician or a leader whereby there is potentially some civic harm in not getting to the bottom of this. If his sponsors want to get to the bottom of it, I understand, though.

If something truly criminal went down, the appropriate people will find out. But if this was anything other than that, we are doing nothing but getting some schadenfreude-ic jollies, and it's no different than following Britney Spears around when she shaved her head and saying "look how crazy she's gone."

[OZZIE4DUKE]

We have no "right" to know what, if anything happened. If Tiger and Elin did have an argument, that's their business. If she swung a golf club at him, even if she hit him with it, she did not hurt him; and if she did and he doesn't want to press charges against her, there is no crime. Tiger is not a "battered husband" from this one minor incident. Had the roles been reversed, then yes, it would be a crime (assault and battery), but this isn't because he is not pressing charges.

This reminds me of the story about Babe Ruth. The team was traveling on a train when the Babe came running down the aisle naked, being chased by a naked woman holding a large butcher knife. The reporters in the car turned to each other and one of them said "there's another story we're not going to report!" We live in a different age, that's for sure. Paparazzi - gotta hate them and the public mentality that has spawned them.

[allenmurray]

We have no "right" to know what, if anything happened. If Tiger and Elin did have an argument, that's their business. If she swung a golf club at him, even if she hit him with it, she did not hurt him; and if she did and he doesn't want to press charges against her, there is no crime. Tiger is not a "battered husband" from this one minor incident. Had the roles been reversed, then yes, it would be a crime (assault and battery), but this isn't because he is not pressing charges.

I'm not sure I understand that reasoning - are you saying that a male assaulting a female with a golf club is a crime, but a female assaulting a male with a golf club is not a crime? Further, whether or not someone chooses to press charges is not determinative of whether a crime has been committed.

In domestic violence situations (in which the roles usually are reversed) choosing not to presss charges is often not really a choice - it is a coerced decision based on fear. That is why the state can and often does press charges even if the assaulted party does not. The state has an interest, a right, and an obligation to arrest and try criminals (which is what a person who assaults another person is) whether or not the victim follows through. Your idea that if the person does not press charges there is no crime is precisely why so much domestic violence becomes chronic - the victim is afraid to press charges. It is also the reason why most police departments and DAs now press charges and are proactive if there is evidence of the crime of domestic violence, whether or not the victim comes forward.

Tiger is in a different situation than most victims of domestic violence (if that is what happened here, which we don't know). He can leave - he has the financial and social resoucres to do so. But many people can not. Your statement that if someone does not press charges there is no crime is simply untrue - and it reflects an attitude that has allowed domestic violence to flourish against people who may feel thay can't leave a situation (and therefore don't press charges). Your reasoning may be true in this particular situation, but in general I find it pretty scary.

[davekay1971]

Passing along a funny FB post from our very own, always irreverent, occassionally inflammatory...Shammrog!

"Tiger's only a mailbox and a parked car away from the "Tiger Slam!""

[Reisen]

I'm sure this has been posted in this thread already, but my former Duke Roommate sent this to me this morning...

Q- What's the difference between a car and a golf ball?

A- Tiger can drive a golf ball straight for 350 yards...

:D

[Mal]

I disagree, he is a major pitchman. As a pitchman, he is using his likeness and personality to sell goods. He's making a representation to the consumer public and that representation is based off of his reputation. His reputation is pretty clean aside from the over-active frustration on the course. This back story, if true, is distinctly at odds with his previous squeaky-clean rep and is therefore newsworthy, relevant, and fair to be pried into... He is well compensated for lending his reputation to companies. His reputation is thrust into the public all the time. It is not fair to have him paid for publicly branding his good deeds and reputation and then claim that any actions inconsistent with that are private and shouldn't be discussed.

In short, he very publicly markets and profits from the brand of Tiger. This is the downside of that.

I don't buy that simply because someone rents their likeness for marketing purposes, prying into events in their life that would be completely off limits if they occurred in the average person's life is somehow alright.

If you think Tiger's marketed image is a fraud, then don't buy a Buick. Root for Mickelson or someone else. We can blame ourselves if we're still naive enough to think that a carefully constructed public persona on a sports star is the "real" them, or that because one exhibits excellence on the golf course then one necessarily contains all the characteristics we value and none of the ones we don't. When they turn out to be, gasp, human, we're inevitably disappointed. But instead of being disappointed in ourselves as a society for falling for it again, we always project it outward in the form of rage, leading us to mercilessly tear the celebrity down out of self-loathing. Tell me that's not what's happening here.

There's a distinct smell of resentment of the riches a figure like Tiger has amassed in the equation of "they make money from their image, therefore I have a right to know every detail about any incident in their personal life because it may be at odds with the image being sold." There's also an unjustified sense of having proprietary rights in his life simply because we've subjected ourselves to advertising featuring him.

[JasonEvans]

Passing along a funny FB post from our very own, always irreverent, occassionally inflammatory...Shammrog!

"Tiger's only a mailbox and a parked car away from the "Tiger Slam!""

Ummm, I posted the exact same thing in this thread 2 days ago from a column by Dan Wetzel.

Dude, keep up!!

--Jason " ;) " Evans

[feldspar]

Time to man up Tiger and face the music like the rest of us do.

Seriously? Did you really just type this?

The next time you wreck your vehicle all by yourself and have to have reporters swarming on your every word and random strangers judging your every action, then you can use the "rest of us" line.

If this had happened to any one of "the rest of us" it would have just been an embarrassing incident, and nothing more.

[whereinthehellami]

Seriously? Did you really just type this?

The next time you wreck your vehicle all by yourself and have to have reporters swarming on your every word and random strangers judging your every action, then you can use the "rest of us" line.

If this had happened to any one of "the rest of us" it would have just been an embarrassing incident, and nothing more.

You mean the next time I wreck my car by hitting a tree and a fire hydrant at 230 in the morning and am found unconsious by the side of the road. The next time I do that, I will not tell everyone to mind their own business and I will stand up like a man and talk to the police. At some point the truth will come out. Why not stand up, look everyone in the eye, and face the music now instead of dragging it out.

And if this happened to the "rest of us" in my neighborhood, this would be more than just an emabarrasing issue. There would be alot of questions. And you would be expected to answer them.

[feldspar]

You mean the next time I wreck my car by hitting a tree and a fire hydrant at 230 in the morning and am found unconsious by the side of the road. The next time I do that, I will not tell everyone to mind their own business and I will stand up like a man and talk to the police. At some point the truth will come out. Why not stand up, look everyone in the eye, and face the music now instead of dragging it out.

And if this happened to the "rest of us" in my neighborhood, this would be more than just an emabarrasing issue. There would be alot of questions. And you would be expected to answer them.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Tiger doesn't want to talk to the police because he doesn't want the police report to be leaked to TMZ and plastered all over the internet. He wants the story to go away for obvious reasons. You wouldn't have that problem. You wouldn't have TMZ hounding your local police department for anything they could get their hands on.

Tiger doesn't have to talk to the police. So why should he?

And if you had an accident in your community that is completely contained to your property that didn't hurt anyone else, you wouldn't have an obligation to tell anyone anything. Not even if a neighbor calls 911 for you.

This has nothing to do with being "a man" and has everything to do with someone's right to keep private things private. This is not a public matter, point blank and period.

[Pacer]

I don't buy that simply because someone rents their likeness for marketing purposes, prying into events in their life that would be completely off limits if they occurred in the average person's life is somehow alright.

If you think Tiger's marketed image is a fraud, then don't buy a Buick. Root for Mickelson or someone else. We can blame ourselves if we're still naive enough to think that a carefully constructed public persona on a sports star is the "real" them, or that because one exhibits excellence on the golf course then one necessarily contains all the characteristics we value and none of the ones we don't. When they turn out to be, gasp, human, we're inevitably disappointed. But instead of being disappointed in ourselves as a society for falling for it again, we always project it outward in the form of rage, leading us to mercilessly tear the celebrity down out of self-loathing. Tell me that's not what's happening here.

There's a distinct smell of resentment of the riches a figure like Tiger has amassed in the equation of "they make money from their image, therefore I have a right to know every detail about any incident in their personal life because it may be at odds with the image being sold." There's also an unjustified sense of having proprietary rights in his life simply because we've subjected ourselves to advertising featuring him.

Both you and Ozzie have used the term that the public doesn't have the "right to know" and having "rights in his life." Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but I never said that. Tiger doesn't owe anyone an explanation. He can keep to himself. He isn't obligated to discuss it as would be implied by a public's "right to know." My point is that it is legitimate for people to inquire as to this event and even dig if they so wish. I suspect that you disagree with this as well, but I just wanted to clarify the use of our "rights" in that it has been used by more than one individual in response and is not an accurate representation of my views.

And while I understand that tone can't come across very well in text, I can assure you that my point of view isn't coming from a stance of resentment. It only comes from believing that his active advertising endeavours place his reputation into the public sphere. I believe that it is precisely his reputation that is getting him the advertising work. Thus, when there are negative aspects of the reputation, it is reasonable and proper in my view that those aspects are treated just as publicly as the advertising treats the positive aspects (of which there are many). Basically, my contention started as disagreeing that Tiger lived as privately as possible. The compensation angle came in for noting that generally, by advertising goods and being a celebrity/ public figure, there are definite downsides such as this digging into embarrassing situations. However, for taking on that risk, and for allowing companies to "rent" his image, he is well compensated.

In sum, you can't take all the good and then protest when the bad comes. Furthermore, I think Tiger's response has been completely fine so far. He can respond however he likes. He doesn't owe the public any statement. It maybe smart for him to have some sort of presser or frank discussion (or maybe not) but that by no means obligates him.

[feldspar]

This is such a non story I’m honestly surprised it has gone on this long. If Kobe Bryant can go through a months-long rape trial, admit to cheating on his wife and several years later be the NBA MVP, any athlete of his stature can get through a piddly little incident like this.

Next April in Augusta, no one will be talking about this story other than celebrity rubberneckers.

[Duke4Ever32]

This is starting to spawn other stories which may be unpleasant for Tiger.

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/12/exclusive-tiger-woods-cheating-scandal-grows-other-woman-coming-forward

[davekay1971]

Ummm, I posted the exact same thing in this thread 2 days ago from a column by Dan Wetzel.

Dude, keep up!!

--Jason " ;) " Evans

Mea culpa. I am shamed. I will remember not to post before perfoming my due diligence in the future. In the meantime, I'll smack down Shammrog for not giving Wetzel credit for the quip. Clearly his C- in UWC was well earned!

[allenmurray]

If Kobe Bryant can go through a months-long rape trial, admit to cheating on his wife and several years later be the NBA MVP

True, but very, very sad - and a real statement about wha Americans will put up with in order to be entertained. Kobe made the statement: I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter and yet remained a national hero.

[Mal]

Both you and Ozzie have used the term that the public doesn't have the "right to know" and having "rights in his life." Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but I never said that. Tiger doesn't owe anyone an explanation. He can keep to himself. He isn't obligated to discuss it as would be implied by a public's "right to know." My point is that it is legitimate for people to inquire as to this event and even dig if they so wish. I suspect that you disagree with this as well, but I just wanted to clarify the use of our "rights" in that it has been used by more than one individual in response and is not an accurate representation of my views.

And while I understand that tone can't come across very well in text, I can assure you that my point of view isn't coming from a stance of resentment. It only comes from believing that his active advertising endeavours place his reputation into the public sphere. I believe that it is precisely his reputation that is getting him the advertising work. Thus, when there are negative aspects of the reputation, it is reasonable and proper in my view that those aspects are treated just as publicly as the advertising treats the positive aspects (of which there are many). Basically, my contention started as disagreeing that Tiger lived as privately as possible. The compensation angle came in for noting that generally, by advertising goods and being a celebrity/ public figure, there are definite downsides such as this digging into embarrassing situations. However, for taking on that risk, and for allowing companies to "rent" his image, he is well compensated.

In sum, you can't take all the good and then protest when the bad comes. Furthermore, I think Tiger's response has been completely fine so far. He can respond however he likes. He doesn't owe the public any statement. It maybe smart for him to have some sort of presser or frank discussion (or maybe not) but that by no means obligates him.

Fair enough, and I did not mean to ascribe motivation to your particular post, so sorry if it appeared that way. I do disagree as to the legitimacy of gossip rags and papparazzi tearing into this non-story and digging as deeply as possible, and I do ascribe the motivations I mentioned above to some of them doing the actual digging. I used "rights" sloppily, I suppose, but I meant legitimate interest, not any sort of legal right. We shouldn't need the details of Tiger Woods' marriage to discern whether or not we want to buy a car he endorses. The devil's bargain of lending your image for advertising has, in my mind, an ending point - having your public actions scrutinized is certainly part of the price for the money received, but microscopic examination of the sorts of things that, were you a non-celebrity, we would all be justifiably quesy about delving into is on the other side of the line for me. As I mentioned previously, I think we should all be cynical enough at this point to not actually buy into the created and managed personas of athletes in the first place, and thus have no particular interest in the precise and salacious details of how the truth differs.

The lives of entertainment stars are analogous. They also sell product through, in large part, their image and personas, combined with their talent. Just like Tiger. So is our prurient interest in Jennifer Aniston's every romantic encounter also legitimate? After all, her screen persona is as down-to-earth, girl next door, sweetness personified. Are we thus justified in wanting to dig into every aspect of her personal life that holds the promise of evidence that the real her differs from her movie star personality?

[weezie]

Next April in Augusta, no one will be talking about this story other than celebrity rubberneckers.

True indeed, witness how Tom Brady kept sailing along after having the baby with his old girlfriend.

[YourLandlord]

True, but very, very sad - and a real statement about wha Americans will put up with in order to be entertained. Kobe made the statement: I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter and yet remained a national hero.

I'm pretty sure Kobe is hated in every NBA arena he plays in and still gets the "rape" chants. I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure he's a "national hero."


True indeed, witness how Tom Brady kept sailing along after having the baby with his old girlfriend.

To be fair, he broke up with her before he knew she was pregnant. And, the reason given at the time was that she wanted a family and he didn't at the time, so they broke up.

...this naturally leads to questions if the gf might have had an assist on the "slip one past the keeper"

[allenmurray]

I'm pretty sure Kobe is hated in every NBA arena he plays in and still gets the "rape" chants. I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure he's a "national hero."

You may be correct. I remember thinking when he was named to the Olympic team, "come on Coach K, we don't need a gold medal that bad.

[feldspar]

True, but very, very sad - and a real statement about wha Americans will put up with in order to be entertained. Kobe made the statement: I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter and yet remained a national hero.

That's a rather simplistic (and awfully judgmental) interpretation of the American psyche. You also have to factor in the public's ability to sympathize with their sports (and other) heroes and give them a second chance when they screw up.

[Channing]

For those interested, the website www.abovethelaw.com has a good write up on the legal ramifications of Tiger's silence.

[CameronBlue]

So Woods hits a hydrant and a tree? Guess he couldn't decide between a wood or an iron.

Rumor has it his wife hit him six times, just put her down for a 4. (Heard on the Rachel Maddow show)

[allenmurray]

That's a rather simplistic (and awfully judgmental) interpretation of the American psyche. You also have to factor in the public's ability to sympathize with their sports (and other) heroes and give them a second chance when they screw up.

I fully admit that I still think Kobe raped her. There are some things I find more deserving of a second chance than others. That one falls pretty low on my list.

[feldspar]

I think the most painful part of this whole ordeal is having to endure the "clever" puns and plays-on-word from copy editors who apparently have nothing better to do than see how many different ways they can utilize double entendre.

[BD80]

I think the most painful part of this whole ordeal is having to endure the "clever" puns and plays-on-word from copy editors who apparently have nothing better to do than see how many different ways they can utilize double entendre.

A double entendre? No Ken, I think she used the 19° hybrid. If he had been in the Porsche, the double entendre might have been enough club, but he jumped into the Escalade.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

And now another woman is claiming she had the affair with Tiger. CBS just played a voice mail he supposedly left on her cell phone, asking her to get her name off her cell phone so it doesn't show up on the caller ID, just the number. Sheesh, you'd think he'd just get her a prepaid phone to use when she called him. Hasn't he ever seen a cop show with terrorists?

[davekay1971]

News radio this morning indicated that as many as 3 women may be coming forward to claim an affair with El Tigre. World...class...player...

[camion]

No, no... Must resist. Must not.. go.. for.. cheap.. joke.






Arrrghh!!








Tiger is famous for being good with the putter.


I'm surprised he would three putt.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

And apparently Tiger has apologized for his indescretions and letting his family down. So that ends that.

And she should have used a sand wedge and not a 19 degree hybrid - the head is heavier and denser. Side note - always use a sand wedge if your trying to kill a snake for the same reason!

Come to think of it, she was trying to kill a snake... :D

[feldspar]

And apparently Tiger has apologized for his indescretions and letting his family down. So that ends that.

Where have you read that?

[Mike Corey]

Where have you read that?

TigerWoods.com:


I have let my family down and I regret those transgressions with all of my heart. I have not been true to my values and the behavior my family deserves. I am not without faults and I am far short of perfect. I am dealing with my behavior and personal failings behind closed doors with my family. Those feelings should be shared by us alone.

Although I am a well-known person and have made my career as a professional athlete, I have been dismayed to realize the full extent of what tabloid scrutiny really means. For the last week, my family and I have been hounded to expose intimate details of our personal lives. The stories in particular that physical violence played any role in the car accident were utterly false and malicious. Elin has always done more to support our family and shown more grace than anyone could possibly expect.

But no matter how intense curiosity about public figures can be, there is an important and deep principle at stake which is the right to some simple, human measure of privacy. I realize there are some who don't share my view on that. But for me, the virtue of privacy is one that must be protected in matters that are intimate and within one's own family. Personal sins should not require press releases and problems within a family shouldn't have to mean public confessions.

Whatever regrets I have about letting my family down have been shared with and felt by us alone. I have given this a lot of reflection and thought and I believe that there is a point at which I must stick to that principle even though it's difficult.

I will strive to be a better person and the husband and father that my family deserves. For all of those who have supported me over the years, I offer my profound apology.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Where have you read that?
I heard it reported on CNBC, but I'm glad that Mike Corey posted the entire statement.

[feldspar]

Sigh....

[YourLandlord]

Sigh....

Sigh about THIS:

http://jackcolton.com/images/31kalika_p3.jpg

shouldn't he be getting wayyyyy hotter than that??

[feldspar]

You’ve got more money than anyone ever needs, you’re one of the most successful athletes in all of sports, you’ve got sponsors chomping at the bit to sign you, you’ve got a gorgeous Swedish model of a wife, two darling kids, and your own freaking video game, and you still feel the need to go have torrid affairs with cocktail waitresses?

I just don’t get it.

I realize it was irrational of me to hold out hope that there was nothing more to this story, but I'm still torked off about this. There goes another "role model."

Tiger's ruined golf for me for the foreseeable future. Thanks a lot.

[hurleyfor3]

And she should have used a sand wedge and not a 19 degree hybrid - the head is heavier and denser. Side note - always use a sand wedge if your trying to kill a snake for the same reason!


You mean to say: For that kind of shot she should have used an open-faced club... a sand wedge.

[snowdenscold]

Sigh about THIS:

shouldn't he be getting wayyyyy hotter than that??

I dunno, ask Hugh Grant...

[hurleyfor3]

Tiger's ruined golf for me for the foreseeable future. Thanks a lot.

And "golf fans" who can't think beyond Eldrick have been ruining professional golf for me for the last 12 years.

This episode has made golf MORE interesting, not less. For a number of reasons. If you want a committed family man to root for there's still Phil Mickelson. And if you want a guy who by his own admission is too old for this stuff there's Tom Watson, I guess.

Eldrick still hasn't won a major since his knee injury, and he lost the most recent one in unprecedented fashion. This incident doesn't exactly dig himself out of this hole. So it's his chance to prove to everyone he really is superhuman and rip off a couple of majors this year! And if not... well, maybe now a new hero can emerge for putative golf fans to worship.

[hurleyfor3]

I dunno, ask Hugh Grant...

Or Bill Clinton

[ncexnyc]

You’ve got more money than anyone ever needs, you’re one of the most successful athletes in all of sports, you’ve got sponsors chomping at the bit to sign you, you’ve got a gorgeous Swedish model of a wife, two darling kids, and your own freaking video game, and you still feel the need to go have torrid affairs with cocktail waitresses?

I just don’t get it.

I realize it was irrational of me to hold out hope that there was nothing more to this story, but I'm still torked off about this. There goes another "role model."

Tiger's ruined golf for me for the foreseeable future. Thanks a lot.

Not to be rude, but how old are you? You're talking about role models, but in this day and age how many public figures can actually stay on the pedestal we put them on?

Maybe there's something to be said for a guy like Derek Jeter, who at least has the sense not to get hitched. At least he can have his pick of the latest hottie, where and when he chooses.

Can it be that people who are wealthy and powerful are used to getting their way and believe the rules don't apply to them?

[Duvall]

You’ve got more money than anyone ever needs, you’re one of the most successful athletes in all of sports, you’ve got sponsors chomping at the bit to sign you, you’ve got a gorgeous Swedish model of a wife, two darling kids, and your own freaking video game, and you still feel the need to go have torrid affairs with cocktail waitresses?

I just don’t get it.

If these things made sense, the world would be a lot less complicated. People doing stupid things for sex is an important part of the human condition.

And Tiger will still have most of those things even after this is over.


I realize it was irrational of me to hold out hope that there was nothing more to this story, but I'm still torked off about this. There goes another "role model."

I don't know. The admirable aspects of Tiger's career - his work ethic and drive for success - are still untainted by these events.

[allenmurray]

You’ve got more money than anyone ever needs, you’re one of the most successful athletes in all of sports, you’ve got sponsors chomping at the bit to sign you, you’ve got a gorgeous Swedish model of a wife, two darling kids, and your own freaking video game, and you still feel the need to go have torrid affairs with cocktail waitresses?

I have enough money to get by (I make just above a school-teacher's salary). Im a lousy athlete. No one recognizes me when I walk into a bar. No one has ever made a video game about me, nor will they. No one sponsors me. My wife is beautiful (though not Swedish, and she has never been asked to model), and my kids are wonderful. I've never felt the need to have an affair with a coccktail waitress (or anyone else), nor would I even if I was tempted and even if I had the opportunity. Why? Because I love my wife and kids and value my family and my family's happiness more than my personal minute-by-minute whims and temptations. He is a jerk - that is the polite word for someone who willingly and unnecessarily brings pain on his own family to satisfy his whims. It is a shame she didn't hit him harder (or in a different location) with the golf club.

[feldspar]

Not to be rude, but how old are you?

Has less to do with age and more to do with the fact that I'll fully admit that I'm an idealist.

[feldspar]

And "golf fans" who can't think beyond Eldrick have been ruining professional golf for me for the last 12 years.

I've been watching golf for longer than Tiger has been playing, so what's your point?

I'm a huge Tiger fan, and I root for him in every tournament he plays in. I enjoy watching history in the making, and sorry, but you just don't get that with Phil Mickelson.

I don't want to think about watching golf and rooting against Tiger since he's now been outed as a sleazeball. It's like having to give up Duke basketball.

[InSpades]

Guys like Clooney and Jeter have it right. If you have all the money/fame in the world and want to be with a different woman whenever the fancy strikes you then don't get married! Sure the media (and I use that term loosely) still follow them and their escapades but they are not under any real scrutiny. As an additional bonus you end up getting much hotter girls overall. The married guys are always cheating w/ a cocktail waitress or the babysitter or something along those lines. Meanwhile Jeter trades in one young hot actress for another young hot actress. Minka Kelly is not sneaking around behind closed doors to be w/ a married man.

[hurleyfor3]

I've been watching golf for longer than Tiger has been playing, so what's your point?

I'm a huge Tiger fan, and I root for him in every tournament he plays in. I enjoy watching history in the making, and sorry, but you just don't get that with Phil Mickelson.


Such a myopic view of what counts as "history in the making" kinda underscores my point. You're telling me you wouldn't have wanted to follow Johnny Miller around on Sunday at Oakmont in '73? Or been at the 17th at Pebble in '82 watching Tom Watson chip in? Or the 18th at Carnoustie in 1999? Does this mean you don't care about hitting streaks in baseball unless they reach 55 games?

People not named Eldrick are allowed to make history too.

[BlueDevilBaby]

We'll see how Jeter does after he gets married - I heard on TV during the parade that he is, alas, engaged.

[feldspar]

Such a myopic view of what counts as "history in the making" kinda underscores my point. You're telling me you wouldn't have wanted to follow Johnny Miller around on Sunday at Oakmont in '73? Or been at the 17th at Pebble in '82 watching Tom Watson chip in? Or the 18th at Carnoustie in 1999? Does this mean you don't care about hitting streaks in baseball unless they reach 55 games?

People not named Eldrick are allowed to make history too.

Myopic? Seriously?

You do realize you are blatantly comparing apples to oranges, right? You're talking about individual event accomplishments. I loved watching Ben Crenshaw sink that putt and bury his head in his hands when he won at Augusta. One of my favorite moments in golf. I appreciated what an accomplishment (and historic moment) it was for Y.E. Yang to walk away with the PGA Championship this year and hoist his bag over his head. I still remember Payne Stewart's win at the 1999 U.S. Open at Pinehurst and that leg kick and how he clutched that trophy like it was one of his own kids. I love those kind of moments.

But Tiger is doing something you will only witness once every few generations. He is in the process of completely rewriting the history books. And now it feels tainted and not as exciting.

[YourLandlord]

This SE grin has a whole new meaning:

http://media.worldgolf.com/wg_blog_media/golf-for-beginners/woodsbaby.jpg

[Duvall]

But Tiger is doing something you will only witness once every few generations. He is in the process of completely rewriting the history books. And now it feels tainted and not as exciting.

Why?

[allenmurray]

But Tiger is doing something you will only witness once every few generations. He is in the process of completely rewriting the history books. And now it feels tainted and not as exciting.

Feldspar - we've certainly had our differences in the past, but it is refreshing to be on the same page with you on this. To hear that someone else has a hard time enjoying the athletic accomplishments of someone who has done hurtful and harmful things to his family makes me feel like I'm not the last person left with standards. Folks shouldn't get a pass in one area of life because they are gifted in another. I refuse to draw these distinctions I see others make (the ones that go, "well, even if he is a jerk, I can still root for him since he is good at what he does"). If the expectation that all people (even tremendous athletes) should do the right thing by their family, and not act in selfish and hurtful ways, makes me myopic and naive, I'll gladly wear those labels.

[feldspar]

Why?

Because first, you're a husband and a father, and second, you're a golf player. He seems to have forgotten what order those go in, and because of that, I don't respect him nearly as much as a golfer.

[hurleyfor3]

But Tiger is doing something you will only witness once every few generations. He is in the process of completely rewriting the history books. And now it feels tainted and not as exciting.

Because he got into an argument with his wife over alleged infidelity? Really? I presume now you admire family man Jack Nicklaus even more... although maybe you rooted against Nicklaus because he was "fat".

[feldspar]

Because he got into an argument with his wife over alleged infidelity? Really? I presume now you admire family man Jack Nicklaus even more... although maybe you rooted against Nicklaus because he was "fat".

Uh...I don't think anyone is pretending the infidelity is alleged anymore.

And I've always admired Jack Nicklaus. Seriously, what's your point? You're really grasping at straws here.

[allenmurray]

Because he got into an argument with his wife over alleged infidelity? Really? I presume now you admire family man Jack Nicklaus even more... although maybe you rooted against Nicklaus because he was "fat".

Given Tiger's statements it doesn't take much reading between the lines to think it has gone beyond the alleged state. And while it doesn't diminish my appreciation for what he has done as an athelte, it does diminish my appreciation for him as a person. I can still think Tiger is a great golfer yet not enjoy his performance as much. Just as some people can chooseto separate their admiration for the talent of the athlete from the person of the athlete, others can decide that we want to root for those who display both at a high standard. I have a lot more admiration for Shane Battier than I do for Kobe Bryant (but I don't think Shane is as good a basketball player).

[weezie]

We'll see how Jeter does after he gets married - I heard on TV during the parade that he is, alas, engaged.

WHAT?!!! Jeter engaged? :eek: I cannot believe I didn't hear this giant of the bachelor world being toppled. I'm saddened that he and I never met...;)

Somehow, I kind of have the feeling that Jeter is going to be a great husband and dad. He's has, as anyone would likely agree, sowed his wild oats, knows his own mind and heart and is ready to take this big step. He's no dope, either. Although I'm a Detroit fan, Jeets has always been my fav Yankee. We would have looked good together :D

And as for Tiger, it's now becoming as tiresome as the health care debate. He is a big disappointment to so many people; what a fool to think he was going to get away with breaking his wife's heart and risking the happiness of his two little babies. Selfish and stupid, no matter how well he swings a driver.

[Duvall]

Because first, you're a husband and a father, and second, you're a golf player. He seems to have forgotten what order those go in, and because of that, I don't respect him nearly as much as a golfer.

I doubt that there's ever been a truly great athlete that put his family before his career - that's how they become great.

I've never understood why people have to convince themselves that the athletes that they admire for their accomplishments on the field of play also lead admirable personal lives. Especially since we hardly ever know anything their personal lives, and only get to see their athletic feats.

[feldspar]

I've never understood why people have to convince themselves that the athletes that they admire for their accomplishments on the field of play also lead admirable personal lives. Especially since we hardly ever know anything their personal lives, and only get to see their athletic feats.


Convince? Who needed convincing? The family photos, Elin at the Masters with the kids. No one needed convincing. It was all out there for the public.

If you want to say people like me are gullible for falling for it, sure. I'm an idealist. I choose not to be a cynic.

But that doesn't mean I had to somehow go out of my way to believe Tiger was a good man who was committed to his family.

[hurleyfor3]

See, this is what I don't get. Not about Tiger, but people's sudden equivocations towards him. Until last week, everyone admired Tiger because he was (in their words) so driven, so competitive, so dedicated to the game. He would let nothing get in the way of passing Nicklaus or whatever. Nothing was more important to him than excelling at golf, and that's why everyone liked him. People on this board have stated this opinion often; I can dig them up when I have time.

Well now, the analysis is becoming that there should have been more important things to him than golf:


Because first, you're a husband and a father, and second, you're a golf player. He seems to have forgotten what order those go in, and because of that, I don't respect him nearly as much as a golfer.

Tiger is loved for being so driven... then scorned for being a little too driven. So which is it?

[calltheobvious]

On the Monday after this year's Open Championship, Chris Carter was sitting in for Golic, and Mike Greenberg asked him how he thought Tom Watson felt after coming up just short. "In other words, Chris, is he able to take any joy at all out of the fact that he just had one of the great four-day runs in golf history, even if it came up just short?" Chris Carter's response (I'm paraphrasing here) was, "No. None. If you're a champion, there's no positive to be taken from finishing second." Greenberg being the lilly-liver that he is, didn't really call him out on it; he just said, "Really? None? I find that fascinating."

I don't find it fascinating, I find it absolutely tragic. But there's an important point that Carter unwittingly makes there. I think that there is an extremely rare strain of hyper-competitiveness that leaves its hosts with an emptiness in life that can simply never be filled, no matter how many championships won. Tiger and Jordan are the ones that come most immediately to mind. What those two also have in common is a father who was an absolutely larger-than-life figure to them, and who died long before either athlete would have expected had you asked them a couple of years before (and in Jordan's case, sadly, a couple of days). I'm not sure when Jordan started running around on Juanita, but I'd bet a round at the 19th hole that Tiger's unfaithfulness started after he lost his father.

It's really easy--natural even--to say, "This guy had it all, how could he be so stupid?" But I think that turns the problem on its head. People who have it all need more than people who don't in order to satisfiy their urges for more and better. There's almost literally nothing that Tiger or Michael can't buy, and yet each, clearly, wanted more out of life. if you're still unhappy with literally everything you could want materially, the logical next step is to go after something less 'material,' and in the case of each man, that included (but was not necessarily limited to) extra-marital affairs.

I'm deeply disappointed in Tiger Woods, and very sad for Elin and their children. But I'm also sad for Tiger, that he could have so many advantages in life, work so hard to achieve at the absolute highest level professionally, and yet still not be fully at peace in his life.

[feldspar]

See, this is what I don't get. Not about Tiger, but people's sudden equivocations towards him. Until last week, everyone admired Tiger because he was (in their words) so driven, so competitive, so dedicated to the game. He would let nothing get in the way of passing Nicklaus or whatever. Nothing was more important to him than excelling at golf, and that's why everyone liked him. People on this board have stated this opinion often; I can dig them up when I have time.

Well now, the analysis is becoming that there should have been more important things to him than golf:



Tiger is loved for being so driven... then scorned for being a little too driven. So which is it?

You know, I really love your posts usually, but in this thread I have to say you're a little off your rocker.

You are ascribing general feelings that some people have expressed about Tiger to my specific post.

Furthermore, you can be driven in your career, have tons of success, and still be a good family man. It's not like the two concepts are mutually exclusive.

[rasputin]

You mean to say: For that kind of shot she should have used an open-faced club... a sand wedge.

Mmmmm . . . open-face club sandwich . . .

[Duvall]

Convince? Who needed convincing? The family photos, Elin at the Masters with the kids. No one needed convincing. It was all out there for the public.

If you want to say people like me are gullible for falling for it, sure. I'm an idealist. I choose not to be a cynic.

But that doesn't mean I had to somehow go out of my way to believe Tiger was a good man who was committed to his family.

There's nothing wrong with assuming the best of people. But by your own words, you allowed that assumption to take such a central role in your appreciation of his accomplishments that learning the truth ruined your ability not just to root for Woods, but to enjoy the entire sport. That's the problem.

[feldspar]

There's nothing wrong with assuming the best of people. But by your own words, you allowed that assumption to take such a central role in your appreciation of his accomplishments that learning the truth ruined your ability not just to root for Woods, but to enjoy the entire sport. That's the problem.

Yeah, but we're in hour one. I'm sure by next April, when March Madness is over, the smell of spring is in the air and the azaleas are blooming, it will come back and maybe I'll learn how to [blech] enjoy watching Phil Mickleson. :p

[hurleyfor3]

There's nothing wrong with assuming the best of people. But by your own words, you allowed that assumption to take such a central role in your appreciation of his accomplishments that learning the truth ruined your ability not just to root for Woods, but to enjoy the entire sport. That's the problem.

Thanks, this is the "straw" I have been trying "grasp at". And herein lies my sore point about Woods fans vs. golf fans. A golf fan wouldn't let this incident, which is completely outside the realm of competitive play or attempting to succeed in golf, turn him off to the sport, and quite possibly cause him to be more interested in it.

[hurleyfor3]

Mmmmm . . . open-face club sandwich . . .

*ding ding*

[feldspar]

Thanks, this is the "straw" I have been trying "grasp at". And herein lies my sore point about Woods fans vs. golf fans. A golf fan wouldn't let this incident, which is completely outside the realm of competitive play or attempting to succeed in golf, turn him off to the sport, and quite possibly cause him to be more interested in it.

Here's what you don't seem to get. I'm a golf fan and a Woods fan. There are those type out there, you know.

And, as I said above, this is still fresh, and come spring, I'm sure my interest in golf will return. But it's kind of like that ex-girlfriend you keep seeing at social events. It's awkward and uncomfortable, yet you can't avoid her because she's the most popular girl in the room, but you don't want to stop going to the social events. It sucks, but it is what it is.

[allenmurray]

On the Monday after this year's Open Championship, Chris Carter was sitting in for Golic, and Mike Greenberg asked him how he thought Tom Watson felt after coming up just short. "In other words, Chris, is he able to take any joy at all out of the fact that he just had one of the great four-day runs in golf history, even if it came up just short?" Chris Carter's response (I'm paraphrasing here) was, "No. None. If you're a champion, there's no positive to be taken from finishing second." Greenberg being the lilly-liver that he is, didn't really call him out on it; he just said, "Really? None? I find that fascinating."

I don't find it fascinating, I find it absolutely tragic. But there's an important point that Carter unwittingly makes there. I think that there is an extremely rare strain of hyper-competitiveness that leaves its hosts with an emptiness in life that can simply never be filled, no matter how many championships won. Tiger and Jordan are the ones that come most immediately to mind. What those two also have in common is a father who was an absolutely larger-than-life figure to them, and who died long before either athlete would have expected had you asked them a couple of years before (and in Jordan's case, sadly, a couple of days). I'm not sure when Jordan started running around on Juanita, but I'd bet a round at the 19th hole that Tiger's unfaithfulness started after he lost his father.

It's really easy--natural even--to say, "This guy had it all, how could he be so stupid?" But I think that turns the problem on its head. People who have it all need more than people who don't in order to satisfiy their urges for more and better. There's almost literally nothing that Tiger or Michael can't buy, and yet each, clearly, wanted more out of life. if you're still unhappy with literally everything you could want materially, the logical next step is to go after something less 'material,' and in the case of each man, that included (but was not necessarily limited to) extra-marital affairs.

I'm deeply disappointed in Tiger Woods, and very sad for Elin and their children. But I'm also sad for Tiger, that he could have so many advantages in life, work so hard to achieve at the absolute highest level professionally, and yet still not be fully at peace in his life.

Nice post. My respect for Tiger is diminished - that doesn't keep me from realizing that he is really hurting too. Pain from self-inflicted wounds is still pain. I don't wish him any harm, but it will be hard for me to "root for" him as I have in the past. I don't always "root for" someone becaue they are the best anyway - I have season football tickets at Duke, for gods sake!

Learning how to be happy with what we have is one of life's most difficult lessons. My experience is that being able to master that doesn't always have to do with social class, money, education, or even success in our profession. I'm not sure where it comes from, but those who get there generally have far better lives than those who don't, regardless of how much "stuff" or how many of the "outward trappings" of success they have.

[YourLandlord]

And, as I said above, this is still fresh, and come spring, I'm sure my interest in golf will return. But it's kind of like that ex-girlfriend you keep seeing at social events. It's awkward and uncomfortable, yet you can't avoid her because she's the most popular girl in the room, but you don't want to stop going to the social events. It sucks, but it is what it is.

So then you find a hotter girlfriend.

[hurleyfor3]

It's really easy--natural even--to say, "This guy had it all, how could he be so stupid?" But I think that turns the problem on its head. People who have it all need more than people who don't in order to satisfiy their urges for more and better. There's almost literally nothing that Tiger or Michael can't buy, and yet each, clearly, wanted more out of life. if you're still unhappy with literally everything you could want materially, the logical next step is to go after something less 'material,' and in the case of each man, that included (but was not necessarily limited to) extra-marital affairs.

Like kings we lose the conquests gained before
In vain ambition still to make them more.
-- Alexander Pope, 1709

[allenmurray]

Like kings we lose the conquests gained before
In vain ambition still to make them more.
-- Alexander Pope, 1709

Maybe that was the problem - he saw other human beings as conquests , rather than seeing the person to whom he had a lifelong committment.

[BD80]

shouldn't he be getting wayyyyy hotter than that??


I dunno, ask Hugh Grant...

Great comparison, what were they thinking?


Or Bill Clinton

I get the point, but:

Which of these does not belong with the others?

Elin Nordgren
Elizabeth Hurley
Hillary Rodham


... I think that there is an extremely rare strain of hyper-competitiveness that leaves its hosts with an emptiness in life that can simply never be filled, no matter how many championships won. Tiger and Jordan are the ones that come most immediately to mind. ...

...It's really easy--natural even--to say, "This guy had it all, how could he be so stupid?" But I think that turns the problem on its head. People who have it all need more than people who don't in order to satisfiy their urges for more and better. ...

Woods Jordan and Clinton may all be insatiable, but infidelity is inexcusable.

[feldspar]

So then you find a hotter girlfriend.

Hey, you find a better golfer than Tiger right now and I'll jump on the bandwagon.

[BD80]

... And she should have used a sand wedge and not a 19 degree hybrid - the head is heavier and denser. ...

Reports indicate that as he was fleeing, Tiger pleaded with her to use a 1 iron, because, as Lee Travino once said while holding that club above his head admidst a thunderstorm: "Not even God can hit a one iron"


Of course, Tiger now regrets teaching Elin how to hit a "low runner"

[hurleyfor3]

Let's keep it more directly golf/incident/Tiger-related from here on, please. Yes, I know my hands are not completely clean by bringing up Bill Clinton. Still, the request stands.[/mod]

[rasputin]

Great comparison, what were they thinking?



I get the point, but:

Which of these does not belong with the others?

Elin Nordgren
Elizabeth Hurley
Hillary Rodham



Woods Jordan and Clinton may all be insatiable, but infidelity is inexcusable.

I'm with you. I lost all respect for Kobe even if it was "consensual."

[calltheobvious]

Woods Jordan and Clinton may all be insatiable, but infidelity is inexcusable.

Um, I don't think there's a single person in this thread who has excused Woods's or anyone else's infedility. I certainly didn't.

[YourLandlord]

http://carolan.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/14239_1220332042694_1660727906_553751_5665095_n.jp g

Merry Christmas from Mr. and Mrs. Woods!

[BD80]

http://carolan.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/14239_1220332042694_1660727906_553751_5665095_n.jp g

Thank you ! :D

[YourLandlord]

Here are the jokes. A few laughers, mostly groaners

Tiger Woods owns lots of expensive cars. Now he has a hole in one.

What were Tiger Woods and his wife doing out at 2.30 in the morning?
They went clubbing.

Tiger Woods crashed into a fire hydrant and a tree.
He couldn't decide between the wood or the iron.

What is the difference between Tiger Woods and Princess Diana?
Tiger has a better Driver.

What is the difference between a golf ball and a car?
Tiger can drive a golf ball 400 yards.

We heard that Tiger's wife has been interested in taking up golf. However, 2:30 am does sound a bit of an odd time to start hitting your Woods.

Ping just offered Elin Nordegren an endorsement contract pushing her own set of drivers. They are marketing them as "clubs you can beat Tiger with."

News travels fast. The Chinese are already making a movie about Tiger Woods' crash. They are calling it, "Scratching Swede, Lying Tiger."

EA Sports has announced the recall of Tiger Woods 2010 so a new bonus level can be added called "Tiger VS The Driveway". A collector's edition will be sold with a free Wii steering wheel.

What does Tiger Woods have in common with baby seals? They're both clubbed by Scandinavians.

If you made it to work this morning, you have earned the right to say "I can out drive Tiger Woods."

Police: Did you hit your husband with the golf club?
Elin: Yes I hit him three or four times.

Police: Well, which was it: three or four?
Elin: Just put me down for three.

[Heelkiller1]

this just proves that even the best .can and will fall.

[UConnJack]

You know, while I have no love for the paparazzi, and believe celebrities are often unfairly judged and deprived of basic privacy, I just do not agree with Tiger's and other's assertion that this is simply a private matter and nobody else's buisness.

Tiger has carefully and meticulously crafted a certain image, and has used that image to create a brand. He had sold that image and brand to us and made millions. I'm sorry, but once you do that, you lose some of that right to privacy and judgment. If he (or any celebrity) expects us to buy what they are hawking by selling us a certain image of himself, that that image better be reasonably true. People are so upset and disappointed with him because they trusted him and who he marketed himself as, and now they (rightly) feel lied to. Sure he's human and fallible, and maybe he has been held too high on a pedestal, but he built that pedestal and has been selling stuff to us from it for years.

As an avid golfer and golf fan, I have been awed by Tiger's ability, focus, and determination, but I can't say I've ever liked him. I haven't hated him (other than for making golf boring to watch sometimes when he's winning every tournament), but have been indifferent. That is probably because I have never felt a human side to him. Sure he can be funny and witty sometimes, but he has always been so guarded, impersonal, and arrogant that he has been hard to relate to. That started to change once he got married and started having kids, he seemed to soften up a bit and seem more human, and I bought into the "family man" image he started to craft. Now that it seems like he's been serially cheating on his wife, and while she was pregnant no less, he seems more human all right, but one I have lost a lot of respect for.

Its funny that Phil Mickelson has always been the one accused of being fake and crafting a certain image, while Tiger, although distant and a bit arrogant, was lauded as genuine. While I'm sure Mickelson has skeletons in his closet too, I suspect (and hope) they are nothing compared to this. Phil has always felt more human to me, and has always been obviously flawed, but one place I feel Mickelson has demonstarted that he is not (seriously) flawed is as a father and husband. Tiger has failed at both, and has a lot of work to do to redeem himself in that regard.

[77devil]

Furthermore, you can be driven in your career, have tons of success, and still be a good family man. It's not like the two concepts are mutually exclusive.

Hmm. Possible yes, not common though in my experience. When you get use to having it all, well, you get use to doing what you want.

[cato]

While I'm sure Mickelson has skeletons in his closet too, I suspect (and hope) they are nothing compared to this. Phil has always felt more human to me, and has always been obviously flawed, but one place I feel Mickelson has demonstarted that he is not (seriously) flawed is as a father and husband.

I am not saying anything about Phil specifically, but I will never, ever be surprised to learn that a successful athlete is cheating on his/her spouse. Disappointed, yes. Surprised, absolutely not.

[YourLandlord]

if this is true...holy crud.


US Weekly has reported the couple has a prenuptial agreement worth $300 million, which would make this the most expensive celebrity divorce in history. Right now, Michael Jordan holds that record when his wife, Juanita, received an estimated $150 million settlement.

[BD80]

Jesper Parnevik, the Swedish golfer who along with his wife, Mia, introduced Elin Nordegren to Tiger Woods, is none too pleased with the world's No. 1 golfer... "I really feel sorry for Elin," in light of reports that Woods has been unfaithful.
...
Nordegren, 29, began working for the Parneviks as a nanny in 2000. She was first introduced to Woods at the 2001 British Open and they were married in 2004.

"I would be especially sad about it since I'm kind of -- I really feel sorry for Elin -- since me and my wife were at fault for hooking her up with him," Parnevik said. "We probably thought he was a better guy than he is. I would probably need to apologize to her and hope she uses a driver next time instead of the 3-iron."
http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=4707629

[feldspar]

If I'm Elin, I'm telling Tiger it's either me or golf. No way am I letting my husband continue to jet-set around the world like he has been.

[weezie]

if this is true...holy crud.

Why so surprised? I think it proves she's one smart girl. Seriously, she's far more beautiful than the dogs he was messing with. Why is he so stupid?

And as to her saying it's me or the golf, come on.....or maybe you were kidding? Telling Eldrick no more golf?!

[Indoor66]

If I'm Elin, I'm telling Tiger it's either me or golf. No way am I letting my husband continue to jet-set around the world like he has been.

In that case, Elin would be gone.

[feldspar]

I'm once again reminded, from this debacle, of the tried-and-true public relations truism of "tell the truth, tell it first and tell it all."

Tiger's done such a horrible job of controlling this story.

[bird]

Why so surprised? Seriously, she's far more beautiful than the dogs he was messing with. Why is he so stupid?

My theory is that the "quality" partners haven't and will not come forward.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I think it is time for a mod to change the title of this thread to "Tiger Woods Wrecks Life". His car has nothing to do with it at this point...

[YourLandlord]

My theory is that the "quality" partners haven't and will not come forward.

This is why, instead of messing around with cocktail waitresses, you pay professional talent who's job is to keep it quiet. Either way, you're paying money...might as well get the quiet guarantee.

[DukieInKansas]

This is why, instead of messing around with cocktail waitresses, you pay professional talent who's job is to keep it quiet. Either way, you're paying money...might as well get the quiet guarantee.

I'm not so sure that always works out. Maybe check with Eliot Spitzer?

[allenmurray]

This is why, instead of messing around with cocktail waitresses, you pay professional talent who's job is to keep it quiet. Either way, you're paying money...might as well get the quiet guarantee.

Another alternative would be to remain faithful to your wife. I know it is kind of old fashioned . . .

[2535Miles]

Another alternative would be to remain faithful to your wife. I know it is kind of old fashioned . . .
Thank you.

[YourLandlord]

I'm not so sure that always works out. Maybe check with Eliot Spitzer?

knew this was coming...he wasn't busted because the woman squealed, he was busted because the prostitution ring was broken up and his name was found on a list of clients.

But my comment was only half serious, of course I agree with the two posters above. but if you ARE dumb enough to do this, AND you have tons of money, a) you pay to keep it quiet and b) YOU DON'T LEAVE VOICEMAILS ON PEOPLES PHONES ABOUT IT. tiger's an idiot in many ways.

[DukieInKansas]

knew this was coming...he wasn't busted because the woman squealed, he was busted because the prostitution ring was broken up and his name was found on a list of clients.

But my comment was only half serious, of course I agree with the two posters above. but if you ARE dumb enough to do this, AND you have tons of money, a) you pay to keep it quiet and b) YOU DON'T LEAVE VOICEMAILS ON PEOPLES PHONES ABOUT IT. tiger's an idiot in many ways.

I don't think Spitzer is the only one that paid for discretion and then got outed when the "agency" got busted.

FYI - I knew you were somewhat tongue in cheek. Allenmurray and 2535Miles definitely have it right - and you, too. Fidelity is the only way to go.

From the female perspective, what do you expect to get out of this kind of relationship? If you think he is going to leave his wife for you, give it up. Even if he does, do you think he won't cheat and leave you a few years down the road? If you are only doing it for money, gifts, or the ability to say you're having an affair with so and so famous person, think more highly of yourself. You deserve better. (off my soap box now)

[feldspar]

From the female perspective, what do you expect to get out of this kind of relationship? If you think he is going to leave his wife for you, give it up. Even if he does, do you think he won't cheat and leave you a few years down the road? If you are only doing it for money, gifts, or the ability to say you're having an affair with so and so famous person, think more highly of yourself. You deserve better. (off my soap box now)

In regards to Tiger's wife, I think the same "self-respect" comments apply. If the stories about the pre-nup arrangements are true, it seems like this is nothing more than a business arrangement between two people. Judging from Elin's reaction, though, it doesn't seem like she views it that way.

That's why I said before, if she has any self respect she'll tell him to either change something or hit the road. What's the old Chinese proverb? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

[Indoor66]

knew this was coming...he wasn't busted because the woman squealed, he was busted because the prostitution ring was broken up and his name was found on a list of clients.

But my comment was only half serious, of course I agree with the two posters above. but if you ARE dumb enough to do this, AND you have tons of money, a) you pay to keep it quiet and b) YOU DON'T LEAVE VOICEMAILS ON PEOPLES PHONES ABOUT IT. tiger's an idiot in many ways.

Maybe naive and an idiot.

[cato]

In regards to Tiger's wife, I think the same "self-respect" comments apply. If the stories about the pre-nup arrangements are true, it seems like this is nothing more than a business arrangement between two people. Judging from Elin's reaction, though, it doesn't seem like she views it that way.

That's why I said before, if she has any self respect she'll tell him to either change something or hit the road. What's the old Chinese proverb? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

Why don't we try to avoid judging Elin in this? She's got her own life to live, and none of us can (or should) put ourselves in her shoes and decide what she should do. One thing Tiger said is true: this is a private family matter.

Put another way: there are only two people in the marriage who have any idea what the marriage is about and how to move forward. And they ain't talkin to us right now.

[feldspar]

Why don't we try to avoid judging Elin in this? She's got her own life to live, and none of us can (or should) put ourselves in her shoes and decide what she should do. One thing Tiger said is true: this is a private family matter.

Put another way: there are only two people in the marriage who have any idea what the marriage is about and how to move forward. And they ain't talkin to us right now.

I don't get to decide what Elin does, I'm just speculating.

Welcome to the world of internet message boards.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Why don't we try to avoid judging Elin in this?
Well, she's supposedly getting lots of money out of this, in the form of money (many millions, cash now) in her own account and in a new prenup. She's getting paid money to stay with him. That make her what? Well, as the old joke says, "we've already established what you are, now we're just negotiating the price."

[weezie]

Now, now, Oz....maybe Eldrick is desperate to keep her and is gladly volunteering the cash. Remember the giant honking diamond that Kobester gave his wife?

Or maybe Eldrick paid too much money to his image lawyers and not enough to get the best pre-nup lawyers in the land.

Marriage is hard work, as the saying goes, but divorce, when there are children, can be much harder.

Eldrick is such a dope.

[DukieInKansas]

One thing this thread has accomplished - it taught me that Tiger's name isn't Tiger - it is Eldrick. Who knew? :o

Regarding his wife - she appears to have a decent pre-nup and was going after him with a golf club. I think she will definitely hold her head high and look out for both her best interests and the children's.

[BD80]

One thing this thread has accomplished - it taught me that Tiger's name isn't Tiger - it is Eldrick. ...

Methinks with El Tigre's recent antics, the "r" does not belong in his given name.

[feldspar]

Methinks with El Tigre's recent antics, the "r" does not belong in his given name.

Post of the Thread.

[BD80]

Jesper wasn't through.

I saw more of the interview of Parnavik pushing Tiger in front of the bus. Jesper suggests that, with respect to his infidelity, Tiger should have ignored the Nike slogan which told him to

"Just Do It"

[weezie]

BD, never walk on your own jokes!!!!!!!!!! :D

[jipops]

Here are the jokes. A few laughers, mostly groaners

Tiger Woods owns lots of expensive cars. Now he has a hole in one.

What were Tiger Woods and his wife doing out at 2.30 in the morning?
They went clubbing.

Tiger Woods crashed into a fire hydrant and a tree.
He couldn't decide between the wood or the iron.

What is the difference between Tiger Woods and Princess Diana?
Tiger has a better Driver.

What is the difference between a golf ball and a car?
Tiger can drive a golf ball 400 yards.

We heard that Tiger's wife has been interested in taking up golf. However, 2:30 am does sound a bit of an odd time to start hitting your Woods.

Ping just offered Elin Nordegren an endorsement contract pushing her own set of drivers. They are marketing them as "clubs you can beat Tiger with."

News travels fast. The Chinese are already making a movie about Tiger Woods' crash. They are calling it, "Scratching Swede, Lying Tiger."

EA Sports has announced the recall of Tiger Woods 2010 so a new bonus level can be added called "Tiger VS The Driveway". A collector's edition will be sold with a free Wii steering wheel.

What does Tiger Woods have in common with baby seals? They're both clubbed by Scandinavians.

If you made it to work this morning, you have earned the right to say "I can out drive Tiger Woods."

Police: Did you hit your husband with the golf club?
Elin: Yes I hit him three or four times.

Police: Well, which was it: three or four?
Elin: Just put me down for three.

To add on:

Tiger is thinking of changing his name, to Cheetah.

[A-Tex Devil]

I don't usually like Jason Whitlock because his takes on athletes are usually shallow contrarianism at its finest.

However, when he goes after the media (e.g. his thebiglead.com interview after his exit from ESPN), he is at his best.

This is a great article. You don't have to like what Tiger did. I don't. But the righteous indignation of the sports media is disgusting. I absolutely buy the fact that those athletes who don't pander back to mainstream media get hit worse when they screw up or don't perform. If you don't believe that --- I'll point to example numero uno in our eyes: Gregg Doyel and Coach K.

Whitlock (http://msn.foxsports.com/golf/story/10464562)

Anyway -- this summed up a lot of my feelings on this non-issue.

[weezie]

From Whitlock's article:

"And Tiger never lied to us. Oh, he might have lied to himself, his wife and his kids. But he never lied to the public. From what little we know about Woods, his running buddies off the course are Jordan, Barkley and Ken Griffey Jr.

You know what they say about birds, feathers and flocks."

What's he saying here? Has Griffey ever been in trouble with girlfriends, etc? I've never heard that.

[johnb]

knew this was coming...he wasn't busted because the woman squealed, he was busted because the prostitution ring was broken up and his name was found on a list of clients.


About Spitzer, he lost his career because he a) left a huge paper trail and b) was seen as hypocritical after having busted people for moral transgressions.

Without b, his enemies would likely haven't gone looking (he incensed a lot of powerful people) and, even if caught, might have been able to slide by.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I don't usually like Jason Whitlock because his takes on athletes are usually shallow contrarianism at its finest.

However, when he goes after the media (e.g. his thebiglead.com interview after his exit from ESPN), he is at his best.

This is a great article. You don't have to like what Tiger did. I don't. But the righteous indignation of the sports media is disgusting. I absolutely buy the fact that those athletes who don't pander back to mainstream media get hit worse when they screw up or don't perform. If you don't believe that --- I'll point to example numero uno in our eyes: Gregg Doyel and Coach K.

Whitlock (http://msn.foxsports.com/golf/story/10464562)

Anyway -- this summed up a lot of my feelings on this non-issue.
Great article and very well said.

[feldspar]

"And Tiger never lied to us. Oh, he might have lied to himself, his wife and his kids. But he never lied to the public."

Bull-puckey. Putting on a false front is the same thing as lying. Tiger looooooved to project himself as Mr. Family, and was always talking about how much of a "boring" personal life he leads.

We have found out in the last week that Tiger is a master manipulator of his private image.

[juise]

We have found out in the last week that Tiger is a master manipulator of his private image.

I'm not arguin with anything you've said, but I imagine it would be incredibly difficult to spend so much time and effort manipulating your public image without feeling the need to do the same in one's private life.

[jipops]

I don't usually like Jason Whitlock because his takes on athletes are usually shallow contrarianism at its finest.

However, when he goes after the media (e.g. his thebiglead.com interview after his exit from ESPN), he is at his best.

This is a great article. You don't have to like what Tiger did. I don't. But the righteous indignation of the sports media is disgusting. I absolutely buy the fact that those athletes who don't pander back to mainstream media get hit worse when they screw up or don't perform. If you don't believe that --- I'll point to example numero uno in our eyes: Gregg Doyel and Coach K.

Whitlock (http://msn.foxsports.com/golf/story/10464562)

Anyway -- this summed up a lot of my feelings on this non-issue.

Very well written, but given who wrote it, highly hypocritical.

Don't look for Jason to be invited back to Sports Reporters anytime soon.

[YmoBeThere]

Okay, I don't recall seeing this but I apologize in advance if it has already been said, but this brings new meaning to the people you always hear on TV shouting at a golf tournament after he has taken a swing, "In the hole, Tiger!" Apparently, he took their advice to heart.

[weezie]

Bull-puckey. Putting on a false front is the same thing as lying. Tiger looooooved to project himself as Mr. Family, and was always talking about how much of a "boring" personal life he leads.

We have found out in the last week that Tiger is a master manipulator of his private image.

Hey, I didn't say it, Whitlock did.

and some of our local sports guys had a pretty funny bit about the Woods Thanksgiving table including both mothers-in-law...whhoooeee, that must have been some kind of a happy gathering!

[A-Tex Devil]

Very well written, but given who wrote it, highly hypocritical.

Don't look for Jason to be invited back to Sports Reporters anytime soon.

Why? As I said, he's sometimes purposely contrarian, but I've never found him to be guilty of the things he is complaining about in his article.

He hasn't been on Sports Reporters in a looooooooooooooong time. He and Mike Lupica (who essentially runs the show now, and, frankly, is the epitome of self-righteous journalist) hate each other.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Why? As I said, he's sometimes purposely contrarian, but I've never found him to be guilty of the things he is complaining about in his article.

He hasn't been on Sports Reporters in a looooooooooooooong time. He and Mike Lupica (who essentially runs the show now, and, frankly, is the epitome of self-righteous journalist) hate each other.
When Dick Shaap retired and John Saunders was named as host of The Sports Reporters, I was surprised it wasn't Lupica. I figured it was an "equal opportunity" type of deal. Saunders has done a great job as host, but Lupica really is the lead reporter most of the time.

[Shammrog]

I usually like Whitlock. Sometimes I agree with him, sometimes I don't. I guess I have a little bit of both on this article, but mostly the latter.

However, his line calling the other "reporter" a "sixty year-old virgin" made ROTFLMAO. :D

[YourLandlord]

10!

http://entertainment.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/12/07/tiger-woods-linked-to-10-women-cori-rist-jamie-jungers/

[Indoor66]

10!

http://entertainment.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/12/07/tiger-woods-linked-to-10-women-cori-rist-jamie-jungers/

Do we have time frames for these liaisons? Tiger got married in October, 2004. Prior to that, IMO, is irrelevant.

[YourLandlord]

Do we have time frames for these liaisons? Tiger got married in October, 2004. Prior to that, IMO, is irrelevant.

As a Red Sox fan, I completely agree. :D

EDIT:

Huge news coming out -- Report (http://www.sportspickle.com/): Tiger Has Two Kids from 6-Year Fling with Swedish Model.

[BD80]

... Huge news coming out -- Report (http://www.sportspickle.com/): Tiger Has Two Kids from 6-Year Fling with Swedish Model.

This is the one that is going to cost him! :D

SNL did a nice job, but it seems like I've seen a similar skit:

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/clips/tiger-woods-accident/1182383/

[roywhite]

Elin moves out, at least according to radaronline.com

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/12/world-exclusive-tiger-woods-wife-moves-out

[YourLandlord]

naked pictures!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/07/tiger-woods-naked-photos_n_383159.html

[BD80]

Elin moves out, at least according to radaronline.com

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/12/world-exclusive-tiger-woods-wife-moves-out

We need Throatybeard to create a pocket reference for all of Tiger's indiscretions, the settlements and the photos. We may need to to get him a larger hard drive (NOT a Tiger pun, honest!) to handle the spread sheet.


An honest question: will Tiger's indiscretions void the prenuptial argeement and give Elin a shot at the jackpot?

I wouldn't mind seeing Tiger pay big time for being a cheating ba$tard. This is perhaps the only time I have ever thought of a divorce lawyer in a positive light.

[weezie]

naked pictures!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/07/tiger-woods-naked-photos_n_383159.html


Oh barf. That is surely the last thing I want to peruse. Geesh, naked shots of Eldrick?!

[YourLandlord]

Oh barf. That is surely the last thing I want to peruse. Geesh, naked shots of Eldrick?!

We can find out, when not in public, what his balls are.

Titleist? Ping?

No way he uses Nike when no one's looking.

[YourLandlord]

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/631528/Tiger-had-me-in-the-rough-Mindy-Lawtons-frantic-sex-with-Tiger-Woods.html

[elvis14]

The silver lining in all of this is that golf coverage (note I said "golf" and not "Tiger") might be much improved. Maybe now that Tiger isn't seen in that same light we might get to see other guys in the field play and SportCenter might actually cover the weekly tournament as opposed to covering Tiger and treating the tournament as an after thought.

[Duvall]

The silver lining in all of this is that golf coverage (note I said "golf" and not "Tiger") might be much improved. Maybe now that Tiger isn't seen in that same light we might get to see other guys in the field play and SportCenter might actually cover the weekly tournament as opposed to covering Tiger and treating the tournament as an after thought.

Much more likely that it goes the way of hockey and becomes an un-sport. The viewing public doesn't actually care about the other guys in the field.

[YourLandlord]

Episode 2: Revenge of the Tiger?

http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=4724190

[weezie]

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/631528/Tiger-had-me-in-the-rough-Mindy-Lawtons-frantic-sex-with-Tiger-Woods.html


Anybody smell roasted pig?

[elvis14]

Much more likely that it goes the way of hockey and becomes an un-sport. The viewing public doesn't actually care about the other guys in the field.

It's not that we don't care, it's that they hype Tiger and almost only Tiger so that none of the other guys seem interesting. So now that Tiger's been exposed as a poor role model, perhaps we can get some good press for some other guys. And yes, it would help if some of the other guys would step up more often!

[Indoor66]

It's not that we don't care, it's that they hype Tiger and almost only Tiger so that none of the other guys seem interesting. So now that Tiger's been exposed as a poor role model, perhaps we can get some good press for some other guys. And yes, it would help if some of the other guys would step up more often!

Tiger gets all the attention because he is always at or near the top of the leader-board, not because he is a "roll model" (whatever that means).

All sports are results oriented. He gets the results. When he plays and wins upward of 40% of the tourneys he enters, he, as would anyone else doing the same, will garner most of the attention. This current series of events will not change that result - so long as he plays better than anyone else by a huge margin.

[Duvall]

It's not that we don't care, it's that they hype Tiger and almost only Tiger so that none of the other guys seem interesting. So now that Tiger's been exposed as a poor role model, perhaps we can get some good press for some other guys. And yes, it would help if some of the other guys would step up more often!

Golf existed before Tiger, with other players stepping up regularly. By and large, the public found it much less interesting.

I'm not saying this is a good thing or a bad thing - I don't think it's either. But the general public seems to be much more interested in Tiger than in golf, and I don't expect that to change anytime soon.

[elvis14]

This current series of events will not change that result - so long as he plays better than anyone else by a huge margin.

You're probably right. At the same time, one can at least hope that these series of events will prompt a change to improved coverage of the sport. Again, I was pointing out something good that could come from this mess, improved coverage.

[77devil]

I don't usually like Jason Whitlock because his takes on athletes are usually shallow contrarianism at its finest.

However, when he goes after the media (e.g. his thebiglead.com interview after his exit from ESPN), he is at his best.

This is a great article. You don't have to like what Tiger did. I don't. But the righteous indignation of the sports media is disgusting. I absolutely buy the fact that those athletes who don't pander back to mainstream media get hit worse when they screw up or don't perform. If you don't believe that --- I'll point to example numero uno in our eyes: Gregg Doyel and Coach K.

Whitlock (http://msn.foxsports.com/golf/story/10464562)

Anyway -- this summed up a lot of my feelings on this non-issue.

I find Whitlock to be a pompous blow hard and this article is no different. While I have no love for how the media handles celebrity, Whitlock always seems to imply he's better and above everone else. Not my cup of tea.

It will be interesting, however, to see how this whole mess affects Tiger's play next year. This comes at a down time on the tour, but if a messy divorce ensues and Tiger is preoccupied with it and dealing with his anxious sponsors, his 2010 season likely will be a bust. Tiger is the best when he is at his best, but the margin of error is razor thin, and there are just too many excellent players ready to take advantage of Tiger's lapses in concentration.

[elvis14]

It will be interesting, however, to see how this whole mess affects Tiger's play next year.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Tiger play better next year. I may not like the way the sport is covered when he's around but he's got more game than anyone and this mess could actually drive him to be even better.

[duketaylor]

It's being reported (by espn) that there was a 911 call and a female was taken from Tiger's house via ambulance this morning, yet another twist/oddity. Will this ever end? Sheesh. I can't remember, save OJ, another icon hitting such a wall, er, tree. The madness.

[DUKIECB]

It's being reported (by espn) that there was a 911 call and a female was taken from Tiger's house via ambulance this morning, yet another twist/oddity. Will this ever end? Sheesh. I can't remember, save OJ, another icon hitting such a wall, er, tree. The madness.

Supposedly it was a middle aged blonde woman. Possibly Elin's mother? Maybe, maybe not since as another poster said, Elin has moved out.

Also, reports are now surfacing that Tiger may have been under the influence when he crashed. Other reports say he was intubated when he was brought in and admitted into the ICU! Something about him not being able to breath on his own. This would line up with the neighbor saying he was on the ground snoring after the crash I guess. Maybe the snoring was him struggling to breath?

Weird is an understatement for someone with his image just two weeks ago.

[aimo]

what an idiot.

[94duke]

this link has been updated a couple times already.
they are reporting it is elin's mother.

http://www.wesh.com/sports/21894356/detail.html

[YourLandlord]

http://deadspin.com/5416948/chaos-in-tigerland-a-deadspin-investigation-into-the-expensive-sexual-habits-of-pro-athletes

how it all works.

[DUKIECB]

http://deadspin.com/5416948/chaos-in-tigerland-a-deadspin-investigation-into-the-expensive-sexual-habits-of-pro-athletes

how it all works.

For those of you who might want to know the article linked here has a good amount of profanity and a semi-nude photo inside. I know that may persuade more of you to view rather than less, but I guess that's none of my business.

[sagegrouse]

Tiger gets all the attention because he is always at or near the top of the leader-board, not because he is a "roll model" (whatever that means).

All sports are results oriented. He gets the results. When he plays and wins upward of 40% of the tourneys he enters, he, as would anyone else doing the same, will garner most of the attention. This current series of events will not change that result - so long as he plays better than anyone else by a huge margin.

I have a golfing buddy that chuckles about his wife. "Whenever there is a golf tournament, she turns on the TV. If Tiger is playing, she watches it; if he isn't playing, she turns it off."

Well,.... I am the same way. If Tiger is playing the Buick whatever, I'll have the TV on in my office. If he isn't, I don't bother to watch, except for the marquis events. And of course, the TV ratings mirror my personal experience.

Before Tiger, we hadn't had a champion U.S. golfer since Watson or Nicklaus. We had some foreign golfers, Faldo, etc., who won a lot of majors. The American contenders were Curtis Strange and Paul Azinger -- great golfers but not champions of the same caliber. Tiger changed that, ever since he won the Masters by 12 shots in 1997.

sagegrouse
'First ever post on the Off Topic Board'

[Duvall]

Brendan Haywood, relationship expert (http://brendanhaywood.yardbarker.com/blog/BrendanHaywood/Buy_Me_Love/1680721).


As everybody knows, there’s been a media circus buzzing about what Tiger called his “transgressions.” And while I will acknowledge that what Tiger did was wrong and irresponsible, my biggest problem in this situation isn’t with Tiger, it’s with his wife, Elin Woods! They say you can’t put a price on love but someone obviously never told Elin that! After hearing of Tiger’s extramarital affairs, her first move wasn’t to go to her family for help; she went straight to the bank! If you haven’t heard, just days after this whole situation was brought to light, Elin had the couple’s prenuptial agreement restructured and immediately had $5 million dollars put inter her personal account – this just in order to stay in the marriage. Before this situation, she was supposed to get $20 million dollars if they divorced after a 10-year period. Now that’s been shortened to 7-years and she’ll get $55 million (and that’s after the $5 million has already been put into her account.) Some media sources are reporting that there are even clauses in the agreement that could take this deal up to $75 mil!

Call me “old fashion” but this sounds more like a business deal than a marriage to me. I know Elin was probably deeply hurt by Tiger’s actions but Tiger’s wallet isn’t the way to restore things in the Woods’ household! Another fact lost in all of this is that these affairs wouldn’t have even come to light if Elin hadn’t gotten all Jazmine Sullivan on Tiger and “busted the windows out his car!” This could’ve been settled nice and quietly behind closed doors. All I’m saying is that Elin better be glad she’s married to Tiger Woods instead of Chris Brown or this whole story could’ve been reported differently!

[sagegrouse]

Don't see this comparison in this thread.

The possible parallels to the movie Sideways are eerie. In this classic buddy movie, Miles (Paul Giamatti) and his soon-to-be-married, perpetually horny friend, Jack (Thomas Haden Church), head for the Santa Barbara wine country for a last fling before the wedding. Miles is a wine connoisseur. Jack meets Stephanie at a winery and begins romancing her. Later, Miles lets slip to his new friend, Maya, that Jack is about to be married. Stephanie finds out and breaks Jack's nose with her motorcycle helmet.

To create a cover story for the broken nose, Miles and Jack fake a car crash with Miles's Saab. They arrive back in LA and Jack gets tons of sympathy from his fiancee and prospective in-laws. The wedding goes on as planned.

I wonder.... Of course, it would mean that Elin would be in on the ruse, but then, why wouldn't she be. There are a lot of dollars at stake.

sagegrouse
'I mean the worst driver in the world could get safely out of his own driveway with his eyes closesd and a blood alcohol rate of 0.3%'

[sagegrouse]

Since I have one, I guess I can pretend to know something about the subject.

There is no way a guy worth >$100 million with a huge income stream would get married without a prenup. His lawyers and financial advisers would kidnap him before the wedding.

It is interesting that he was so penurious in the prenup. What was it, $20 million if she stayed with him for ten years?

The fact that he apparently gave her a check for $5 million and renegotiated the target payout to >$50 million seems perfectly reasonable. In fact, the fact that she hadn't renegotiated the prenup suggests that everything was pretty cool until the recent unpleasantness. Or perhaps, she had a huge allowance or access to unlimited funds, so that a legal guarantee was not necessary.

sagegrouse

[YourLandlord]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/tiger_mistress_reveals_text_messages_Rl7isQ9GfhXOG eXOQfOVaN

what an idiot.

[YourLandlord]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/images/12/07/jaguars-mascot.jpg

[weezie]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/tiger_mistress_reveals_text_messages_Rl7isQ9GfhXOG eXOQfOVaN

what an idiot.

If Eldrick can pay for his secret (at least one of them) girlfriend's liposuction, then he can damned well pay some keister-hurting prenup/alimony/child support/whatever it takes to his wife/mother of his children. And maybe we'll see some more little cubs from more of those girlfriends before this is over.

He's a stupendous idiot...really, one of the most outstanding morons of all time.
Brendan Haywood is way further down the list, but still, an proud member of the idiot brigade.

[77devil]

Brendan Haywood, relationship expert (http://brendanhaywood.yardbarker.com/blog/BrendanHaywood/Buy_Me_Love/1680721).

Must have been written by a ghost writer. It's way too coherent and free of grammatical, spelling, and diction mistakes.

[JasonEvans]

Can I just say that while I agree that Tiger is an idiot, I am amazed at his ability to keep his total horndog life a secret for so long.

We are not talking about him having an affair with one other woman where they met in private all the time. He was picking up chicks in bars, bringing them with him to tournaments, carrying on via traceable means like voice mail and text, and doing it with something like a dozen different women over the past few years.

And no one ever got a sniff of it.

That's impressive, and a little bit shocking.

--Jason "Gatorade has dropped its Tiger drink (http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,26465829-23209,00.html)-- says the move was planned long before the scandal blew up. Yeah, right!" Evans

[BD80]

Can I just say that while I agree that Tiger is an idiot, I am amazed at his ability to keep his total horndog life a secret for so long.

We are not talking about him having an affair with one other woman where they met in private all the time. He was picking up chicks in bars, bringing them with him to tournaments, carrying on via traceable means like voice mail and text, and doing it with something like a dozen different women over the past few years.

And no one ever got a sniff of it.

That's impressive, and a little bit shocking.

--Jason "Gatorade has dropped its Tiger drink (http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,26465829-23209,00.html)-- says the move was planned long before the scandal blew up. Yeah, right!" Evans

You wonder how many of the golf writers knew about it (and other golfers) but stayed quiet because Tiger has raised their yearly take?


Tiger did pull in a new sponser, Exxon. The campaign will be:

"Put a tiger in your skank"

[Pacer]

You wonder how many of the golf writers knew about it (and other golfers) but stayed quiet because Tiger has raised their yearly take?


I think this is quite likely. I know of another high profile athlete who is married and acts in a similar way... It is so prevalent that it is impossible for the media to not know... They sit on it, presumably out of some duty to public good or whatever. The only difference is that his wife knows about it... so a public freakout is unlikely.

[YourLandlord]

I think this is quite likely. I know of another high profile athlete who is married and acts in a similar way... It is so prevalent that it is impossible for the media to not know... They sit on it, presumably out of some duty to public good or whatever. The only difference is that his wife knows about it... so a public freakout is unlikely.

from another board:


Here's some text of an email from a friend of mine who travels with a Tour player.

'...the PGA tour is like a rock concert. Players can walk up to any girl, get their number, just pick one out. 75% of the women are there to hook up with a rich guy who travels in the warm weather year round. Most of the guys out there are doing it every week, there’s a girl in every tour stop. I hear lots of players were deleting phone numbers out of their cell phones.'

[OZZIE4DUKE]

from another board:

Here's some text of an email from a friend of mine who travels with a Tour player.

'...the PGA tour is like a rock concert. Players can walk up to any girl, get their number, just pick one out. 75% of the women are there to hook up with a rich guy who travels in the warm weather year round. Most of the guys out there are doing it every week, there’s a girl in every tour stop. I hear lots of players were deleting phone numbers out of their cell phones.'
Well that fits in with what Jason Whitlock said in his article, linked way above, when he gave the alternate definition of PGA.

The only thing that really surprises me is that all the screwing around - not just by Tiger - is kept so secret by so many for so long. It's not like Babe Ruth running nekkid through the train being chased by the nekkid lady wielding a knife. Not in today's world, anyway.

[calltheobvious]

You wonder how many of the golf writers knew about it (and other golfers) but stayed quiet because Tiger has raised their yearly take?


Tiger did pull in a new sponser, Exxon. The campaign will be:

"Put a tiger in your skank"

This practice goes back forever, probably. Every beat-writer who covered an SEC football team in the 60's or 70's was quite familiar with Bear Bryant's heavy drinking (and driving), but none of those guys ever dared print a disparaging word about the man.

[JasonEvans]

Now that I think about it, I dunno why any of this surprises me about golfers. The exact same thing happens in other sports, so why not in golf?

I was good friends with several guys on the basketball team when I was at Duke. I could write a book about the debauchery of some of the guys on the 1988 and 1989 teams. Heck, even the lowest of the benchwarmers was getting more tail than he could handle.

Of course, they were not married with kids.

--Jason "ahhhh, memories come flowing back over me..." Evans

[camion]

Now that I think about it, I dunno why any of this surprises me about golfers. The exact same thing happens in other sports, so why not in golf?


Because golfers aren't athletes. :p

[YourLandlord]

Because golfers aren't athletes. :p

Uh, but they are rich men with some level of fame. That's generally all it takes for women of this...uhhh...caliber.

[davekay1971]

Because golfers aren't athletes. :p

Safe to say that LeBron James has a little more sex appeal than Phil Mickelson?

[BlueDevilBaby]

Safe to say that LeBron James has a little more sex appeal than Phil Mickelson?

Yes, man boobs are a big turnoff.

[MChambers]

In today's Washington Post, there is an article about Haywood blogging his thoughts on Tiger Woods's problems. Let's just say I'm still glad Brendan went to UNC.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/09/AR2009120904141.html

[DukieBoy]

Wow. I don't really know how to reply to that. It's just....wow

[Azdukefan]

In today's Washington Post, there is an article about Haywood blogging his thoughts on Tiger Woods's problems. Let's just say I'm still glad Brendan went to UNC.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/09/AR2009120904141.html

As disgusted as I am with Tiger, I have had more people side with Brendan than me (I think he is a lowlife not because of an affair but because it sounds like an orchestrated act). It is almost like being a celebrity millionaire and great husband can't go hand in hand. Because Grant Hill absolutely could not get another woman. Only Tiger with his striking looks.........shaking my head.

[Channing]

it may not be the most eloquent writing, but he has a point. Granted, none of us know how long Tiger has been having marital problems, but from the information we know, Elin's first move was to secure more money for herself. If reports are to be believed, she accepted 7,000,000 to stay married to Tiger for at least 7 years. The comment has already been made, but as the punchline goes, we know what you are, now we are just haggling over price.

If the roles were reversed, and Tiger scratched up Elin's face because he found out she was cheating on him, there would be an uproar that, regardless of the situation, domestic abuse is unacceptable (which I agree with).

Just saying, Heywood has a point - Elin's first move wasn't to secure a divorce, it was to secure more $$$$$$$.

[hurleyfor3]

This practice goes back forever, probably. Every beat-writer who covered an SEC football team in the 60's or 70's was quite familiar with Bear Bryant's heavy drinking (and driving), but none of those guys ever dared print a disparaging word about the man.

Aw heck, there have been famous athletes (within my lifetime) that everyone "in the know" understood were gay. I ain't talking Mike Piazza or Sheryl Swoopes, either; one example was an eventual Hall of Famer.

As for the athletes-screwing-around-with-women angle, I thought this came out of the laundry back when Magic Johnson announced he had HIV. As for golf, it's pretty much limited to the 125(?) who make qualifying school. Life in the lower strata of the PGA Tour is quile unglamorous and features lots of Motel 6 and much less motel sex.

[Kane]

She married for money and is staying for the money . . . a.k.a. the oldest profession in the world . . . just like Kobe's "loving" wife who stayed for a big rock. Haywood is right, Tiger's wife is heartbroken all the way to the bank.

Let's hope Tiger's sponsors throw him under the bus and his gold digger wife gets dragged down the road with him if she stays in the sham marriage to protect the Tiger Brand . . . (no more Nike shoes and Gatoraide for little Johnny if women are buying) at least the Tiger worship by all media, that was absolutely sickening, has finally come to an end and "the Tiger Brand" has been torched!

When will we learn to "honor our father and mother" again and forget about the jocks and celebs?

[CameronBornAndBred]

How bizarre...earlier tonight this was on the OTB, with lots of responses. And now it's in the EK. I don't want to know what Tiger did at Duke to earn the switch....:eek:

[Vincetaylor]

My big question is why do guys like Magic, Tiger, MJ, etc, etc, etc. get married if they probably know that they won't be able to keep their d***s in their pants. Leo Dicaprio and George Clooney do quite well for themselves with the ladies and people love them and don't give them a hard time about it. The reason...they aren't married and cheating on their spouses. More athletes(and guys in general) should sew their oats before tying the knot. There is nothing wrong with having a family later in life, especially if one is less likely to stray.

[BlueintheFace]

What's the difference between a golf ball and Tiger's car?


Tiger can drive a golf ball 400 yards...

[SeattleIrish]

I'm surprised at most of the posts here. Tiger appears to have cheated on his wife with multiple women, over a period of many years, including on-going relationships occuring after the birth of his children.

And Elin is the "bad guy" in this?

I struggle to avoid judging the decisions others make in their marriages, and often fail miserably in the attempt. In this particular case, Elin appears willing to give the marriage another try. I do not fault Elin for securing money (keeping in mind it's apparently 7mil from a man who has made over ONE BILLION, and keeping in mind much of that money was earned during the course of their marriage) in case the marriage fails.

I hope they can rebuild the trust in their marriage and they can build a secure home for their family...this has to be a very tough situation.

s.i.

p.s. - see, I again failed to avoid judging

[Channing]

I'm surprised at most of the posts here. Tiger appears to have cheated on his wife with multiple women, over a period of many years, including on-going relationships occuring after the birth of his children.

And Elin is the "bad guy" in this?

I struggle to avoid judging the decisions others make in their marriages, and often fail miserably in the attempt. In this particular case, Elin appears willing to give the marriage another try. I do not fault Elin for securing money (keeping in mind it's apparently 7mil from a man who has made over ONE BILLION, and keeping in mind much of that money was earned during the course of their marriage) in case the marriage fails.

I hope they can rebuild the trust in their marriage and they can build a secure home for their family...this has to be a very tough situation.

s.i.

p.s. - see, I again failed to avoid judging


I dont think there is only one bad guy here. If Elin did not know about the affairs, she was the total victim ... until the alleged domestic abuse. That actually means she committed a crime while he committed "moral" sins. Also, if she is willing to oversee his indiscretions for $X million, I don't see how she can receive any sympathy.

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

what's the difference between tiger woods and santa clause?

santa stops after 3 hoes...

[YourLandlord]

Simmons.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/091211

I disagree with #4 -- the one he thinks is true. But this makes sense, as he is an idiot, and I am not.

[DUKIECB]

If I'm Elin, I'm telling Tiger it's either me or golf. No way am I letting my husband continue to jet-set around the world like he has been.

Well done Feldspar! If this story (http://outofbounds.nbcsports.com/2009/12/elin-tells-tiger-he-must-give-up-golf.html.php) is true, that is exactly what Elin is asking for if Tiger wants to try and work things out.

Lets say this is true, what chance do you give Tiger of being willing to go along with this? I give it about a 10% chance. No way Tiger is giving up his quest to rewrite the history books! Don't get me wrong, I think it's the best thing he could do to give up golf for a while to show he really wants to work it out, but I just don't see it happening.

[Indoor66]

Well done Feldspar! If this story (http://outofbounds.nbcsports.com/2009/12/elin-tells-tiger-he-must-give-up-golf.html.php) is true, that is exactly what Elin is asking for if Tiger wants to try and work things out.

Lets say this is true, what chance do you give Tiger of being willing to go along with this? I give it about a 10% chance. No way Tiger is giving up his quest to rewrite the history books! Don't get me wrong, I think it's the best thing he could do to give up golf for a while to show he really wants to work it out, but I just don't see it happening.

I see that as an unreasonable demand. Elin has access to huge amounts of money because Tiger plays golf. That is his life - before and after he met her. His frailties and misdeeds do not change who he is. She may demand fidelity or leave, but to demand he give up is life's work is not reasonable on any basis.

As some say, just my 2¢/

[InSpades]

She can demand all she wants... does anyone actually believe he's giving up either his job or his favorite hobby? I really can't see him saying "gee, I've been caught, guess I'll just go back to sleeping with only 1 woman now". If it was just 1 girl then maybe I could see it happening, but this has obviously become his lifestyle. That's not going to change. I guess that is the point with the demanding he quit golf thing... if he is going to change he's going to have to change everything.

At the end of the day... if he cared enough about his wife to give up golf for her... then he wouldn't be in this position in the 1st place.

[DUKIECB]

I see that as an unreasonable demand. Elin has access to huge amounts of money because Tiger plays golf. That is his life - before and after he met her. His frailties and misdeeds do not change who he is. She may demand fidelity or leave, but to demand he give up is life's work is not reasonable on any basis.

As some say, just my 2¢/

I have got to say, I don't think this is unreasonable. So what if he's the greatest golfer on the planet. So what if that is what made him hundreds of millions of dollars and therefore Elin as well. Who cares? The fact still remains that he made a vow to her that he broke and if this is what she wants to keep their marriage intact he should do it. This is of course assuming he truly does care and wants his marriage to work.

[Indoor66]

I have got to say, I don't think this is unreasonable. So what if he's the greatest golfer on the planet. So what if that is what made him hundreds of millions of dollars and therefore Elin as well. Who cares? The fact still remains that he made a vow to her that he broke and if this is what she wants to keep their marriage intact he should do it. This is of course assuming he truly does care and wants his marriage to work.

This is the real world! He made a lot of mistakes. If he was a successful ($350k per year) guy, would you think he should quit what he does to prove his love and future fidelity? He can make life style changes that do not include giving up his professional life. IMO if he does quit, the marriage will fail over resentments.

[DukieInKansas]

This is the real world! He made a lot of mistakes. If he was a successful ($350k per year) guy, would you think he should quit what he does to prove his love and future fidelity? He can make life style changes that do not include giving up his professional life. IMO if he does quit, the marriage will fail over resentments.

If the job at $350K put him in a position to have lots of women seeking his attention (i.e. - groupies that followed that particular profession), then yes, I can see the wife thinking that leaving that profession is a reasonable request.



She can demand all she wants... does anyone actually believe he's giving up either his job or his favorite hobby? I really can't see him saying "gee, I've been caught, guess I'll just go back to sleeping with only 1 woman now". If it was just 1 girl then maybe I could see it happening, but this has obviously become his lifestyle. That's not going to change. I guess that is the point with the demanding he quit golf thing... if he is going to change he's going to have to change everything.

At the end of the day... if he cared enough about his wife to give up golf for her... then he wouldn't be in this position in the 1st place.

Ding ding ding - we have a winner!

[Duvall]

At the end of the day... if he cared enough about his wife to give up golf for her... then he wouldn't be in this position in the 1st place.

Of course, if he cared enough about anything to give up golf for it, he wouldn't have enjoyed this success in the first place.

[BlueintheFace]

People like Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, etc... have something in their DNA that drive them to be the best any way, any how... it is the most important thing in the world to them and everything else is white noise.

If Tiger were to give up Golf (and the prospect of being the greatest in the history of a sport) for Elin.... that'd be the ultimate sacrifice. It would be a far greater sacrifice than a regular joe schmo giving up smoking, or moving away from friends and family to a new city, or never watching a Duke basketball game again in the face of divorce. How many of us have the opportunity to pretty definitively be the best ever at something that millions of people do? That level of sacrifice is simply unfathomable for all of us.

That is a bigger sacrifice than I can ever imagine making in my life. I'm not going to speak to whether or not he should do it or if it is fair, but i will say this. If he gives up golf for her: (1) I will be shocked because, like i said, that drive is in his DNA and that is so hard to overcome, and (2) I believe the magnitude of that sacrifice is so great that it.... (treading carefully) certainly goes a long way to proving whatever it is she needs proven.

[BD80]

Well done Feldspar! If this story (http://outofbounds.nbcsports.com/2009/12/elin-tells-tiger-he-must-give-up-golf.html.php) is true, that is exactly what Elin is asking for if Tiger wants to try and work things out.

Lets say this is true, what chance do you give Tiger of being willing to go along with this? I give it about a 10% chance. No way Tiger is giving up his quest to rewrite the history books! Don't get me wrong, I think it's the best thing he could do to give up golf for a while to show he really wants to work it out, but I just don't see it happening.

I agree it is unlikely he will give up golf for any length of time, he is just too into himself.

Would it be unfair to ask him to? I don't think so. He already has enough money, so giving up the golf paycheck for a while wouldn't really hurt. Elin has some leverage over his marketability at this point. She could get nasty and hurt his reputation, or she could give the apearance of working with him to save their marriage and thus preserve his marketability.

Frankly, I think it is all a carefully scripted publicity move, somewhat like MJ "retiring" to play baseball just as his gambling issues surfaced. Look for Tiger to announce that he is withdrawing from the tour to work on his marriage, without specifically saying how long. He will avoid the press for a while and let things die down, under the pretense that he has to to save his marriage. I see him coming back before the Ryder Cup in Wales in October. The press there is more forgiving of these things, and playing for the US team will greatly rehabilitate his image.

I don't think Tiger will change his ways. I can't believe that Elin was unaware of Tiger's escapades if they are as pervasive and notorious as reports suggest. This is particularly true give the amount of time the golf WAGs spend together at the Ryder Cup each year. There is NO chance that word doesn't filter through.

Thus, this is already spin control going into effect. Tiger isn't a golfer, he is a commodity. Elin's outrage and threat to return to Europe is to show that they have a "real" marriage, and his "capitulation and contrition" will show Tiger to be a real human being. Then he goes back to being a whore-monger, and she resumes her over-privileged life.

Wonder if Axe or TAG would consider using Tiger in a commercial where he uses one spritz of their body spray and he is attacked by a bevy of bodacious young ladies?

[Indoor66]

Tiger just announced (http://web.tigerwoods.com/index) that he is taking an indefinite break from Golf and concentrating on his family.

[CameronBlue]

For some reason that glam scene from "Priscilla Queen of the Desert" with Stamp, Weaving and Pearce comes to mind:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DJC-ECU8IE

Elin's been house-hunting apparently. Seems this has been in the works for a while.

http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/blog/devil_ball_golf/post/Elin-Woods-reportedly-purchases-2-million-Swedi?urn=golf,207340&cp=21

If Tiger is going to concentrate on his family, he could be accumulating more frequent flyer miles than usual.

[DUKIECB]

Well, there you go. Now the question is he doing it for the right reasons or because he knows this is the way to let things blow over and the best way to restore his image? Only time will tell I guess.

[BD80]

Ryder Cup in Wales is looking more and more inviting:


A British judge has barred journalists in the country from publishing some material about Tiger Woods.

An injunction issued Thursday even blocks media including The Associated Press from revealing the details of the order itself. As a result, media who obey the order cannot tell the public what they have been barred from revealing.

http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=4735524


A side note, wouldn't Jesper Parnevik be an inspired Captain's pick for the Euros? Just kidding, Monty wouldn't do something like that to Tiger would he?

[BlueintheFace]

Ryder Cup in Wales is looking more and more inviting:



http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=4735524


A side note, wouldn't Jesper Parnevik be an inspired Captain's pick for the Euros? Just kidding, Monty wouldn't do something like that to Tiger would he?

England's Libel Law might be on the verge of changing after CENTURIES of being shockingly unprotective.

[SoCalDukeFan]

How was this kept quiet until Tiger drives a car into a tree?

He hits the tree and then a dozen women come forward as his girlfriend.

Hard to figure why one or more would not have talked to some kind of tabloid before.

SoCal

[JasonEvans]

Just so we are clear, the article I read said that Elin was demanding that Tiger TEMPORARILY give up golf. That is a whole different thing from this notion that he would never play again.

I can totally see him taking 3 or 4 months off from PGA Tour competitive golf. He'd come back just in time for a tune-up tournament before The Master's.

-Jason "maybe he skips The Master's, but I doubt it" Evans