Some legal advice re: a contractor?

[Lord Ash]

Hey all!

I know there are a lot of legal minds here, so I was wondering if anyone could offer any advice, pro bono, about a potential problem?

My wife and I contracted a contractor to redo our bathroom back in August. He began work on September 2nd. While things went relatively smoothly at first, by October work slowed considerably, and over the last four weeks workers have only been to the house to work on two or three days. We have called and emailed repeatedly, but he has either dodged our calls (saying "I have a client here, let me call you back" and then never doing so or simply not picking up) or not returning messages.

We have called and emailed his office repeatedly over the past month asking when the work would be finished. They have answered a few times and have said they would be here the very next day to finish. They have not shown up.

This has been going on for four weeks, as what was originally a 4-6 week project goes into the ninth week. At this point we wish to end the relationship. There is still about 10 percent of the total agreed upon payment that has not been paid, as that is not to be paid until work is complete, but frankly we just want to end this. We do not want him coming back to the house (the house key that was in the lock box on the front door has disappeared,) we intend to hire another contractor to finish the work, and we have no interest in seeing a final bill.

Can anyone give some informal advice about what sorts of rights we have in a situation like this? We are just SO frustrated... we've been living in our basement for nine weeks on a foldout couch, and to be lied to and ignored for a month has been really taxing.

Thanks all!

[moonpie23]

say his name.....we can all give him a call and an email....you know....show some support for our brother LORD ASH......

you'd be surprised how calling him out in "public" can be very helpful in resolving a dispute...


I'll call first if you want me to...

[Lord Ash]

*laugh*

Well it is extremely foolish of him... his business is in the town my mother has taught in for 30 years (and she knows EVERYONE) and next to the town I teach in (where I know EVERYONE.) I don't know why he would do this.

[allenmurray]

Hey all!

I know there are a lot of legal minds here, so I was wondering if anyone could offer any advice, pro bono, about a potential problem?

My wife and I contracted a contractor to redo our bathroom back in August. He began work on September 2nd. While things went relatively smoothly at first, by October work slowed considerably, and over the last four weeks workers have only been to the house to work on two or three days. We have called and emailed repeatedly, but he has either dodged our calls (saying "I have a client here, let me call you back" and then never doing so or simply not picking up) or not returning messages.

We have called and emailed his office repeatedly over the past month asking when the work would be finished. They have answered a few times and have said they would be here the very next day to finish. They have not shown up.

This has been going on for four weeks, as what was originally a 4-6 week project goes into the ninth week. At this point we wish to end the relationship. There is still about 10 percent of the total agreed upon payment that has not been paid, as that is not to be paid until work is complete, but frankly we just want to end this. We do not want him coming back to the house (the house key that was in the lock box on the front door has disappeared,) we intend to hire another contractor to finish the work, and we have no interest in seeing a final bill.

Can anyone give some informal advice about what sorts of rights we have in a situation like this? We are just SO frustrated... we've been living in our basement for nine weeks on a foldout couch, and to be lied to and ignored for a month has been really taxing.

Thanks all!


The first thing I would do is to change the door lock. My guess is that the amount you still owe him and what is left to be done have a great disaprity (he is ahead in the deal, right?). Don't let him back in your house. If he is a licensed contractor contact the licensing agency. If he is not that is a good, but expensive, lesson for you. Oh, did I mentin have the lock re-keyed? And did I mention, don't let him back in your house?

[Lord Ash]

Hey!

Actually I think WE are ahead... he has almost no work left to do! Honestly I am totally baffled about this... in the estimate it says it is a four week job... Monday is week nine!

We actually on gave him keys to one lock, and not the other, so we can lock him out.

He is licensed.

I am just so baffled, and so annoyed that the last two or three weeks he has been SOOO evasive and not been in touch at ALL. I guess I am most worried about being taken to court, and what leg I have to stand on.

[allenmurray]

Hey!

Actually I think WE are ahead... he has almost no work left to do! Honestly I am totally baffled about this... in the estimate it says it is a four week job... Monday is week nine!

We actually on gave him keys to one lock, and not the other, so we can lock him out.

He is licensed.

I am just so baffled, and so annoyed that the last two or three weeks he has been SOOO evasive and not been in touch at ALL. I guess I am most worried about being taken to court, and what leg I have to stand on.

Beat him to the punch. If nothing else it will get him moving, or it will get him to agree for both parties to walk away without further obligation to each other.

[BD80]

Careful. He may have a construction lien on the house that would have to be paid before selling the house, whenever that happens.

[allenmurray]

Call Nate James.

[Jarhead]

say his name.....we can all give him a call and an email....you know....show some support for our brother LORD ASH......

you'd be surprised how calling him out in "public" can be very helpful in resolving a dispute...


I'll call first if you want me to...
Wow, that sounds something like the plot of Law and Order on NBC this evening.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I'd keep all contracts, agreements, letters, e-mails etc... between you two in a safe file. And yes, change that lock.

I would then send him a final letter-registered mail- with an ultimatum to have the work completed by a certain date. Then make sure you or someone is at home if they show, which they likely will not. Then don't send him another dime and move on. If you are confident he has not fulfiled the contract and you can document it, don't worry about a court.
If he does show, pay him and live and learn not to do biz with him in the future.

It sounds like he has bigger problems somewhere else. There's a lot of that going around with contractors these days.

P.S. Take and save pictures of the incomplete work.
Good luck!

[moonpie23]

Lord Ash,

was there any paper work regarding the deal signed by you or him? both of you? Were the "terms" of the agreement laid out in writing?

yes, definitely take pics of the incomplete work....and......now, while it's fresh in your mind, write down as much of exactly what his schedule was and work he did complete....days he was there, etc....

[blazindw]

Also, keep all records of the person you hire to finish. That will come in handy, as what you can sue for are the excess costs you incurred in mitigating your damages (i.e. if you were to pay original contractor $5000 and he didn't finish, you already paid him $4000 of that $5000 that you agreed upon, and you paid another contractor $3000 to finish, you're entitled to at least $2000 in compensatory damages).

[moonpie23]

if this guy DOES capitulate, we could all come over, get a keg and stand around watching him finish up.....you know.....just "helping"

[DukieInKansas]

if this guy DOES capitulate, we could all come over, get a keg and stand around watching him finish up.....you know.....just "helping"

I'm in. :D

[dukestheheat]

LA,

One question: Have you paid this contractor in full (or, even 75% or so..)?

Money talks and soon, if you haven't paid him, the dude is going to come finish. I wouldn't give him a carolina blue dime more until he finishes all of the work.

Hopefully, you haven't paid him in full as of yet?

dth.

[CLT Devil]

As a Real Estate broker, I can tell you where I have run into situations like this where the contractor, nevermind who's right or wrong, puts a lien on the house and you never know until a title search is done when you go to sell. Personally, I would show up at his office early one morning and come to some sort of agreement face to face...it's amazing how less evasive people are when they're in front of you. If they have already told you they are going to finish 'the next day' and don't show up a couple of times, and this in turn causes you to have to sleep in the basement on a futon, I would hire someone else to finish the job, as you've given them ample opportunity to complete the work.

As far as the key; I deal with key issues all the time and wouldn't be too concerned about changing the locks. I would bet that one of his workers/subs accidentally put the key in their pocket, it fell down in between the seats of the truck, is in someone's car and they don't even know it, etc. Maybe the contractor is too embarassed or is trying to find the key to gain access and finish. You never know...he could have fired the person doing the work who has the key...basically I've seen all kinds of things happen to keys, mostly accidental.

I totally agree about documenting everything, sending certified mail with a set completion date, etc. The last 10% is always the hardest to get done because I'm sure they are off to another job. You did well to not pay in full from the get go. From my experience he got 90% done, pulled his workers off your job for another because he promised them a completion date and thus left you hanging. Hate to hear it, as in this market it's usually only the folks who are really good at what they do that hang around...and especially in a town where you and your family are entrenched.

I'd say (legal thoughts withstanding) to finish the job with someone else, but try and catch the guy at his office or some other place to find out what is going on. Secretaries always are good at getting these things handled. Good luck.

[aimo]

You never know...he could have fired the person doing the work who has the key....

Which is PRECISELY why you need to change the lock.

Try calling a local news Troubleshooter. The ones in the Triangle seem to do a really good job in these situations. And it could smear his name in the community.

[Jeffrey]

Careful. He may have a construction lien on the house that would have to be paid before selling the house, whenever that happens.

You may want to pay a lot of attention to the post above! A small final payment (payment in full) may be the least expensive alternative in the long run.

[Indoor66]

Careful. He may have a construction lien on the house that would have to be paid before selling the house, whenever that happens.

A construction lien must be perfected via a filing and winning a lawsuit. The suit must be filed within a time specified by the lien statute. The time limit for filing is usually relatively short - 6 months or less. The owner also must be given written notice of the lien filing. Lien law is very specific and the statutes must be followed to the letter to have an enforceable lien on real estate. It will not creep up on you.

[Jeffrey]

A construction lien must be perfected via a filing and winning a lawsuit. The suit must be filed within a time specified by the lien statute. The time limit for filing is usually relatively short - 6 months or less. The owner also must be given written notice of the lien filing. Lien law is very specific and the statutes must be followed to the letter to have an enforceable lien on real estate. It will not creep up on you.

Doesn't that depend on where you reside? IIRC, some states enable filing a construction lien without a lawsuit and/or owner notification. IIRC, it can totally creep up on you in some states.

One should note that I have no formal training, and limited knowledge, on the subject.

[Indoor66]

Doesn't that depend on where you reside? IIRC, some states enable filing a construction lien without a lawsuit and/or owner notification. IIRC, it can totally creep up on you in some states.

One should note that I have no formal training, and limited knowledge, on the subject.

No lawsuit required to file a lien. Lawsuit is required to perfect the lien. Liens expire without being perfected - much like UCC liens expire if not renewed.

[Jeffrey]

No lawsuit required to file a lien. Lawsuit is required to perfect the lien. Liens expire without being perfected - much like UCC liens expire if not renewed.

Are non-perfected liens valid for 10 years in some states?


Lien law is very specific and the statutes must be followed to the letter to have an enforceable lien on real estate.

Are non-perfected liens enforceable?

[Indoor66]

Are non-perfected liens valid for 10 years in some states?



Are non-perfected liens enforceable?

I cannot speak to all states. I know of 4 states that the lien expires after 6 months if action is not taken to perfect the lien. The reason is to protect a property owner from the effect of an uncanceled, unperfected lien being an encumbrance on their property.

[Jeffrey]

I cannot speak to all states. I know of 4 states that the lien expires after 6 months if action is not taken to perfect the lien. The reason is to protect a property owner from the effect of an uncanceled, unperfected lien being an encumbrance on their property.

Thank you! I'll no longer be concerned about this possibility.

[Indoor66]

Thank you! I'll no longer be concerned about this possibility.

A warning: Lien Law is extremely jurisdiction specific. You, in your banker's capacity, have issues and concerns that are different from a homeowner. Advances in the face of a lien can expose a lender to liability. It is a very complex area of law. Local professional legal advice is most advisable.

Here (http://www.lectlaw.com/def/l036.htm) is a generalized summary of liens on real property.

[Jeffrey]

A warning: Lien Law is extremely jurisdiction specific. You, in your banker's capacity, have issues and concerns that are different from a homeowner. Advances in the face of a lien can expose a lender to liability. It is a very complex area of law. Local professional legal advice is most advisable.

Thanks for the prudent warning. I was approaching it from a homeowners perspective (in harmony with the OP).

Professionally speaking, my lawyers have lawyers. :D

[Indoor66]

Professionally speaking, my lawyers have lawyers. :D

I understand that one, having represented a number of banks.

[rasputin]

I understand that one, having represented a number of banks.

I understand that one, having represented a number of lawyers.

[Indoor66]

I understand that one, having represented a number of lawyers.

Yeah, I understand that one. The three criminal trials that I have testified in (for the prosecution) involved attorney defendants who represented banks or S & L's.

[Lord Ash]

Hey everyone...

Well... here goes.

We just found water soaking through our ceiling, in the room under the bathroom that was redone a year or so ago. We also noticed that there are some mildew stains on the ceiling that we just didn't notice.

We had our plumber come in and take a look, and he said that without opening up the floor there is no way to find out what is wrong.

We said okay, and then emailed the guy who did the original work, to come back and take a look.

After about a week and a half (and after missing his first appointment... he did this during the job CONSTANTLY, a job that ended up taking a YEAR to finish, instead of the 4-6 weeks he said in the original contract) he said he had a guy come by and take a look (we were not home and left a key... honestly, though, we so NO evidence that anyone was there... nothing I had out to catch the leaks was moved, nor were my notes to him) and said he'd have to have someone come by in a week and open the floor to take a look.

We said this was simply too long (already out of the bathroom for a week and a half) and our plumber came back the next day to take a look. He opened the floor and said that there is a leak. It looks to be a bad one in that it isn't a pipe or anything, but looks like water is actually seeping through the floor itself. He also felt the work that was done (that he could see) was very poorly done, and pointed out that the bench seat in the shower was actually unfinished (if you look underneath it is basically open, no tile or anything, and mildew everywhere in the concrete board.)

We emailed the contractor Saturday morning saying the job was clearly a big one and he'll have to come look at it. It is Tuesday, and nothing.

At this point we don't want the man back in our house, and we don't want him doing work in the house (he did crap the first YEAR he was here.) We want to find another contractor to fix the leak, and then send the guy the bill.

What the heck is our first/next step? Getting a lawyer? Do we just do the work and send him the bill? We have zero experience with this, and honestly we expect the bill to be in the five figure range...

Anyway... any advice is so welcome:( The wife and I are really over our heads, and don't really know how to approach this:(

[Indoor66]

Hey everyone...

Well... here goes.

We just found water soaking through our ceiling, in the room under the bathroom that was redone a year or so ago. We also noticed that there are some mildew stains on the ceiling that we just didn't notice.

We had our plumber come in and take a look, and he said that without opening up the floor there is no way to find out what is wrong.

We said okay, and then emailed the guy who did the original work, to come back and take a look.

After about a week and a half (and after missing his first appointment... he did this during the job CONSTANTLY, a job that ended up taking a YEAR to finish, instead of the 4-6 weeks he said in the original contract) he said he had a guy come by and take a look (we were not home and left a key... honestly, though, we so NO evidence that anyone was there... nothing I had out to catch the leaks was moved, nor were my notes to him) and said he'd have to have someone come by in a week and open the floor to take a look.

We said this was simply too long (already out of the bathroom for a week and a half) and our plumber came back the next day to take a look. He opened the floor and said that there is a leak. It looks to be a bad one in that it isn't a pipe or anything, but looks like water is actually seeping through the floor itself. He also felt the work that was done (that he could see) was very poorly done, and pointed out that the bench seat in the shower was actually unfinished (if you look underneath it is basically open, no tile or anything, and mildew everywhere in the concrete board.)

We emailed the contractor Saturday morning saying the job was clearly a big one and he'll have to come look at it. It is Tuesday, and nothing.

At this point we don't want the man back in our house, and we don't want him doing work in the house (he did crap the first YEAR he was here.) We want to find another contractor to fix the leak, and then send the guy the bill.

What the heck is our first/next step? Getting a lawyer? Do we just do the work and send him the bill? We have zero experience with this, and honestly we expect the bill to be in the five figure range...

Anyway... any advice is so welcome:( The wife and I are really over our heads, and don't really know how to approach this:(

Which State are you in?

[Lord Ash]

Ah that might help:)

NJ. I don't think small claims can handle this... the limit I think is 3k, and the plumber seemed to think this would be a much larger job... he seemed to think that the whole shower enclosure will need to be ripped out, and then rebuilt, retiled, and have the glass reset:(

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Hey everyone...

Well... here goes.

We just found water soaking through our ceiling, in the room under the bathroom that was redone a year or so ago. We also noticed that there are some mildew stains on the ceiling that we just didn't notice.

We had our plumber come in and take a look, and he said that without opening up the floor there is no way to find out what is wrong.

We said okay, and then emailed the guy who did the original work, to come back and take a look.

After about a week and a half (and after missing his first appointment... he did this during the job CONSTANTLY, a job that ended up taking a YEAR to finish, instead of the 4-6 weeks he said in the original contract) he said he had a guy come by and take a look (we were not home and left a key... honestly, though, we so NO evidence that anyone was there... nothing I had out to catch the leaks was moved, nor were my notes to him) and said he'd have to have someone come by in a week and open the floor to take a look.

We said this was simply too long (already out of the bathroom for a week and a half) and our plumber came back the next day to take a look. He opened the floor and said that there is a leak. It looks to be a bad one in that it isn't a pipe or anything, but looks like water is actually seeping through the floor itself. He also felt the work that was done (that he could see) was very poorly done, and pointed out that the bench seat in the shower was actually unfinished (if you look underneath it is basically open, no tile or anything, and mildew everywhere in the concrete board.)

We emailed the contractor Saturday morning saying the job was clearly a big one and he'll have to come look at it. It is Tuesday, and nothing.

At this point we don't want the man back in our house, and we don't want him doing work in the house (he did crap the first YEAR he was here.) We want to find another contractor to fix the leak, and then send the guy the bill.

What the heck is our first/next step? Getting a lawyer? Do we just do the work and send him the bill? We have zero experience with this, and honestly we expect the bill to be in the five figure range...

Anyway... any advice is so welcome:( The wife and I are really over our heads, and don't really know how to approach this:(


Which State are you in?
I'm not a lawyer and I haven't had to deal with bad contractors myself, but I'll offer these thoughts/advice.
1. Take lots of pictures to document what's there.
2. Call your local TV station trouble shooter reporters - all of them if there is more than one station that does this (there are two of them in the Triangle - they seem to get results much faster than private citizens). Do this now - don't let it drag on any longer.
3. Call another contractor and get a repair estimate and expect to have to pay for the repairs. Get more than one estimate.
4. Expect to have to sue the original contractor to get your money back for either the original work or the repairs, unless the TV trouble shooter route gets you some results. You could talk to your lawyer but that will of course start your bill running with him, too. The TV station works for free!

[Jim3k]

Check your Homeowner's policy. At least file a claim and see what happens.

[Indoor66]

Check your Homeowner's policy. At least file a claim and see what happens.

That is good advice. Most Homeowners Form 2 and above policies insure for escaping water damage. Doesn't pay to repair the pipe, just the water damage. The issue in this case may be negligence on the part of the contractor - but that my be a fight in the hands of the insurance company for indemnity. I would definitely call the insurance agent and have the matter looked checked out.

[Newton_14]

Hey everyone...

Well... here goes.

We just found water soaking through our ceiling, in the room under the bathroom that was redone a year or so ago. We also noticed that there are some mildew stains on the ceiling that we just didn't notice.

We had our plumber come in and take a look, and he said that without opening up the floor there is no way to find out what is wrong.

We said okay, and then emailed the guy who did the original work, to come back and take a look.

After about a week and a half (and after missing his first appointment... he did this during the job CONSTANTLY, a job that ended up taking a YEAR to finish, instead of the 4-6 weeks he said in the original contract) he said he had a guy come by and take a look (we were not home and left a key... honestly, though, we so NO evidence that anyone was there... nothing I had out to catch the leaks was moved, nor were my notes to him) and said he'd have to have someone come by in a week and open the floor to take a look.

We said this was simply too long (already out of the bathroom for a week and a half) and our plumber came back the next day to take a look. He opened the floor and said that there is a leak. It looks to be a bad one in that it isn't a pipe or anything, but looks like water is actually seeping through the floor itself. He also felt the work that was done (that he could see) was very poorly done, and pointed out that the bench seat in the shower was actually unfinished (if you look underneath it is basically open, no tile or anything, and mildew everywhere in the concrete board.)

We emailed the contractor Saturday morning saying the job was clearly a big one and he'll have to come look at it. It is Tuesday, and nothing.

At this point we don't want the man back in our house, and we don't want him doing work in the house (he did crap the first YEAR he was here.) We want to find another contractor to fix the leak, and then send the guy the bill.

What the heck is our first/next step? Getting a lawyer? Do we just do the work and send him the bill? We have zero experience with this, and honestly we expect the bill to be in the five figure range...

Anyway... any advice is so welcome:( The wife and I are really over our heads, and don't really know how to approach this:(

Homeowner's will absolutely pay for this. I know from personal experience. I had a pipe burst in an upstairs bathroom. My upstairs was unfinished at the time, but we had plumbing put in when the house was built. What we did not know was the plumber actually ran water into the pipe. Had a cold spell in January that froze the water and when it thawed we had a mess.

I had water in every downstairs ceiling light fixtures. When I walked in water was pouring. I had basketball size water bubbles in the ceiling and one of the bedroom ceilings fell through.

Had to replace all of the flooring downstairs, replace areas of ceiling, and the countertops in the kitchen. Bill was $25K and insurance paid every penny.

If I were you, I would not let the contractor off the hook though. You need to take Ozzie's advice and get the local TV Troubleshooter if they have one. The Troubleshooter for our local TV stations here have a really good success rate.


Good luck!

[Jarhead]

Homeowner's will absolutely pay for this. I know from personal experience. I had a pipe burst in an upstairs bathroom. My upstairs was unfinished at the time, but we had plumbing put in when the house was built. What we did not know was the plumber actually ran water into the pipe. Had a cold spell in January that froze the water and when it thawed we had a mess.

I had water in every downstairs ceiling light fixtures. When I walked in water was pouring. I had basketball size water bubbles in the ceiling and one of the bedroom ceilings fell through.

Had to replace all of the flooring downstairs, replace areas of ceiling, and the countertops in the kitchen. Bill was $25K and insurance paid every penny.

If I were you, I would not let the contractor off the hook though. You need to take Ozzie's advice and get the local TV Troubleshooter if they have one. The Troubleshooter for our local TV stations here have a really good success rate.


Good luck!

I had almost the exact same thing happen to me. When the pipes thawed we had water everywhere. The house, a one story ranch type, was built on a concrete slab, but the builder forgot some of the plumbing. No problem. He just ran that through the attic. The very first hard freeze took out lots of plaster, sheet rock, carpet and some furniture when the thaw came. And , yes, the insurance was an immediate help. The picked up the entire cost. Lord Ash, call your insurance company tomorrow.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Insurance pays when a pipe bursts and there is a sudden problem. If a pipe leaks for a long time and there is a slow leak, say a drip, that goes undetected and it causes rot and mold, rather than a flood, that may not, and probably will not, be covered. You have to be very careful in how you describe the problem to your agent and to the claims adjuster when he comes to your house. Be emphatic in how it "JUST HAPPENED!" :cool:

[Lord Ash]

Hey guys!

The adjuster just came through... he took a look. He recommended regrouting, just in case that solves the problem (it won't) and then, if not, call him again and we'll start in on repair. It sounded to me like they will cover the repairs... he said they may have to tear up the tile and retile, and if so, so be it.

Hopefully we'll just be out the deductible... hopefully.

Thank you everyone for the advice, I can't tell you how much I appreciate it:(

[Jim3k]

Hey guys!

The adjuster just came through... he took a look. He recommended regrouting, just in case that solves the problem (it won't) and then, if not, call him again and we'll start in on repair. It sounded to me like they will cover the repairs... he said they may have to tear up the tile and retile, and if so, so be it.

Hopefully we'll just be out the deductible... hopefully.

Thank you everyone for the advice, I can't tell you how much I appreciate it:(

Sounds like a decent first step. But...take pictures, even if the adjuster already did. Document that the issue was sudden and and that it seems directly connected to the contractor's failure, which you never noticed until the damage occurred. Remember to tell the adjuster that his company will have recourse to the contractor on a subrogation basis.

And point out that while you are taking his advice to re-grout, you don't think that will be sufficient to deal with the ceiling in the room below. When it fails, take more picures.

BTW, a good, experienced drywall man might be able to give you an idea about the extent of the needed repair. These guys usually have a pretty good idea of the cost and time involved. Indeed, it might be easier to open things up from below since the bathroom probably has subflooring while the ceiling below would give access to the same area from the other side. There are also drywall moisture sensors which can be helpful to estimate the size of the damaged area. (Here's one from Home Depot. (http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100651808&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_sku=100651808&ci_src=14110944&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googlebase-_-D25X-_-100651808&locStoreNum=634))

You are also looking at a coat or two of paint in the room below, so those sensor point holes will be easy to fix in the unrepaired areas.

[Reisen]

So I'm not a plumber, nor a contractor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night... A couple thoughts.

- It's not rare to find a shower bench unfinished underneath. I'm not sure on code, but I've seen many that way.

- That, in and of itself, probably has nothing to do with the leak. Beneath the tile should be a shower liner and the pan. Showers have multiple redundant leak-stoppers built in. In all liklihood, he did something stupid like drive screws through the liner. It could also be an improper seal around the drain. Or possibly the shower not being sloped correctly. Worst case scenario, the liner is missing entirely.

- Whatever it is, regrouting is not going to fix it, and a stupid recommendation from your adjuster. As soon as the grout sealant starts to wear, water is going to seep through the grout joints. The real waterproofing is what's behind the tile. Something there has failed. Obviously, I'm only talking about the lower parts of the shower (floor and partly up the wall), as the liner doesn't extend all the way up.

- The cost of your repair is going to be in fixing the shower and remediating any mold in the ceiling below. Chances are good the drywall itself will be fine (other than patching the holes that were made to get access). Once you stop any more water and dry it out, it's just a matter of patching, priming with a stain blocking primer, and painting. You could do that yourself if necessary.

[Lord Ash]

Just thought I'd update...

A plumber and two contractors came through, and no one could find the leak...

And then in came the college roommate (a CPS/Art double major at Duke) and, in five minutes, he finds a spot where the grout had never been finished, and after a day or two of water tests, that's it. Seriously... the computer programmer found what the two contractors and the plumber couldn't. Shows you what one good Duke grad can do!:)

So. We are going to have that fixed, and have the seat redone, and then I think we'll take the original guy to small claims court... between doing such a crummy job on the seat, and then simply NOT grouting under the step and allowing that leak, we hope that we'll get him.

Anyone here ever gone to small claims court?