Survivor Samoa

[wandalee]

Anyone watching Survivor this year?? The new season starts tonight. Can't wait!!

[DukeUsul]

I want to punch the oil guy every time he opens his mouth. What a sleaze. I hope he's out early.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I want to punch the oil guy every time he opens his mouth. What a sleaze. I hope he's out early.
I agree. I had hoped he'd be blind sided but it wasn't to be. He'll either be next to go or he'll go a long long way in the game.

Some of us had a conversation earlier today at CTN about Cheers and Norm's line "It's a dog eat dog world out there and (I'm) we're wearing Milk Bone underwear." Can't believe that Russell used it at tribal council!

I really like the cast this season. This should be a great edition.

[lazee]

I want to punch the oil guy every time he opens his mouth. What a sleaze. I hope he's out early.

I can't stand him, and it's only the first episode. He truly is a sleaze ball!! I don't understand how sabotaging your own tribe will help you win the game. If your team is decimated in the challenges, you can't make it to the end unless the tribes merge really early.

I really hope he gets blindsided big time!!!

[InSpades]

I only briefly watched part of this episode but it seems like making secret alliances w/ every girl on your tribe is a sure way to lose the game. Does he know anything about women? Women talk... especially to other women. It seems like his strategy revolves around none of the women telling any of the other women about their "secret alliance". As soon as 2 of them talk and figure it out won't they go see who else he had a "secret alliance" with? Seems bound to blow up in his face.

[JasonEvans]

IIRC, Russell (the oil tycoon) was not the one who used the milk bone underwear line. It was the old guy who, I thought, might be in some danger of being voted out and who latched onto Russell when the backstabbing one suggested Marissa for booting.

I know ya'll are all hating on Russell, but I sorta dig him. I think his strategy of making alliances with lots of different folks is ok, though the way he is talking down about folks is not nice. I agree that many secret alliances is not a good strategy as the game moves on because people get a sense for who you really like and dislike, but he clearly was able to take control of his tribe's voting strategy at the start of the game and that is no easy feat. I think he did a good job of setting up Marissa-- he went to everyone and said, "she's a schemer who is already saying she will not trust anyone" and that really resonated with the group. He managed to get 7 people on his side and that is impressive.

I think Russell is going to control the game for a little while, but it will blow up on him eventually. They are setting him up as a major, major character in the game and I bet he lasts for a while. He's a strong physical force and is quickly going to be seen as a leading "schemer" -- that is a formula for being voted off quickly as soon as there is a merge or if there is a tribal shuffle.

I also think that Russell is going to find himself in an alliance with folks like Mike (the old guy), Jason (the black swimmer), and Ben (the guy sitting next to Marissa who seemed to hate her). His attempt to join with all those women is not going to work long-term.

Good cast so far. We'll get to know them better the next few weeks and then we will have more to go on when predicting who goes far and who gets axed.

--Jason "good to have the TV season upon us again!" Evans
I

[DukeUsul]

My problem with Russell is that he seemed to think that sabotaging his teammates' strength was a good strategy. Really?!? You want your teammates to be dehydrated and have blisters with so many team challenges ahead of you?

The fact that he was throwing socks in the fire and dumping canteens makes me think that he really isn't that bright and that his motivation for doing all these things isn't some grand scheme, but he's just trying to stir things up to stir them up.

[JasonEvans]

My problem with Russell is that he seemed to think that sabotaging his teammates' strength was a good strategy. Really?!? You want your teammates to be dehydrated and have blisters with so many team challenges ahead of you?

The fact that he was throwing socks in the fire and dumping canteens makes me think that he really isn't that bright and that his motivation for doing all these things isn't some grand scheme, but he's just trying to stir things up to stir them up.

I am not so sure. We are not seeing everything that goes on. If he is trying to actually hurt his tribe and caise them to lose challenges, then I agree it is a bad strategy.

But, consider this-- what if water is readily available (as I suspect it is) and his dumping the canteens merely adds and extra task and frustration to his teammates. What if the socks are not really all that necessary, but missing them will just make a fellow teammate grumpy and mad. Maybe what Russell is doing is breaking people down, causing a little bit of chaos and unrest in camp, and then figuring that he can be the hero that helps everyone out.

We may see a tribe of angry, suspicious, and grumpy with each other folks in future episodes... everyone except Russell who is not bugging anyone and not complaining about anything and generally is the only guy everyone wants to hang out with because nothing seems to be bothering him. Is that so far-fetched to imagine? If he wants to control everyone -- if he already has some control over a lot of folks -- then making things chaotic and uneasy around camp may be the best way to keep anyone else from stepping up and supplanting him as the behind-the-scenes leader.

I don't know if it will work -- I suspect it won't over the long term -- but I will not be at all surprised if he is able to stick around the game a while and maintain control of his tribe for a while by using this tactic.

As for how his meddling may affect his tribe in challenges, I have long felt that a healthy percentage of the challenges are almost random. The result often feels much like a game of chance as it does a game of skill-- especially when strange puzzles are involved. I think Survivor does this because it is a good way of keeping the tribes mostly balanced. Flip a coin 8 times and 5-3 or 4-4 is a lot more likely a result than 6-2 or 7-1.

My point is that even with Russell making life difficult around camp, I don't think his tribe is going to suffer all that much at the challenges as a result.

http://static.tvguide.com/MediaBin/Galleries/Shows/S_Z/Suj_Sz/Survivor_Samoa/crops/survivor-samoa-natalie-russell-hantz19.jpg

--Jason "it is early, but the more I think about it, the more I think that Russell is going to make it to the merge at least" Evans

[JustAFan]

OK, how can you not appreciate how hard Russell The Oil Man is playing this game? To find the immunity idol, in front of everybody, without a single clue? Wow, you have to give him credit for game smarts!

I can understand why he would annoy some folks, but in the context of the game, he is a pure player. He clearly watched and learned from previous episodes (unlike Yasmin who seemed truly surprised that it can be miserable trying to live outside without food or shelter. What was that all about? It was like she never, ever watched the show. She also showed many other reasons to be annoyed with her like when she yelled at Ben for playing hard. Again, does she have any idea what this game is about?)

On a separate, random thought, why did CBS give away the vote last night by showing the clip where Betsy said she was the only one who brought her stuff to Tribal Council? I know it was already pretty obvious up until then, but CBS removed all suspense in the voting with that comment. I thought it was a strange piece of editing.

Another random question, why did Foa Foa still go to Tribal Council and have to vote somebody out after they lost Mike for medical reasons? I thought in past episodes, tribes who lost somebody due to medical reasons were "spared" Tribal Council? Am I remembering this incorrectly?

I'm still trying to "get into" this season as I always do. Takes a few weeks to learn the players' names and idiosyncracies. Plus, by then, there have been enough eliminations so you can start focusing on a few key players.

[DukeUsul]

Russell certainly showed more smarts this week than I thought he had. Going for the idol in plain view was brilliant. He's still not very likable. But more likeable than Yasmine or Ben.

I like Jaison. Seems to have his head on straight.

[JasonEvans]

My wife thought the same thing about the medical evac and elimination at the same time. That is kinda unfair to the Foa Foa tribe. If I was them, I would have gone to tribal and everyone would have voted to oust the dude who got evac'd, as if he was still there. Then, see how the producers react.

Yasmin was horrible. Wow! I know the tribe seemed angry at Ben for making a scene, but I am almost surprised he did not haul off and hit her. She is worthless and insulting. Another thought-- at tribal council, they should have all written Yasmin on their pieces of paper ;)

I am eager to see Jaison and some of the other Foa Foa members step up and wrestle with Russell for control. Not because I dislike Russell, but because I like internal tribe conflict.

We have seen almost nothing of the other tribe, but we have seen enough to know that Shambo will be their first boot, for sure.

-Jason "shaping up as a pretty good season-- though Foa Foa needs to win a few challenges or we need an early shuffle to change things up for the post-merge play" Evans

[riverside6]

Not sure that this has been said yet, but the immunity idol that Russell has is the idol for the OTHER tribe. This is why a person gets to go to the other camp and get the clue.

In the TV Guide preview for the season, Jeff Probst said that the immunity idol is hidden in the other team's camp. That said, once Russell figures this out, I'm sure he'll seek to align with someone in the other tribe.

[JasonEvans]

Not sure that this has been said yet, but the immunity idol that Russell has is the idol for the OTHER tribe. This is why a person gets to go to the other camp and get the clue.

In the TV Guide preview for the season, Jeff Probst said that the immunity idol is hidden in the other team's camp. That said, once Russell figures this out, I'm sure he'll seek to align with someone in the other tribe.

I am not familiar with an Idol only being available for one tribe to use it and not the other. I think what they mean is that you get clues to a location that is in the other tribe's camp. I suspect that what Russell found is an idol that will work.

I also think that Russell is such an overconfident player that he will not use the idol when he really needs it down the road.

-Jason

[AtlBluRew]

What gives? Oct. 16 and no comments on Survivor since Sept. 27. Has the show jumped the shark for DBR denizens?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

What gives? Oct. 16 and no comments on Survivor since Sept. 27. Has the show jumped the shark for DBR denizens?
I'm a couple of episodes behind on the DVR.

[JasonEvans]

I am furious at Survivor for last night's challenge decision. Foa Foa had a clear lead when a member of Galu collapsed. How can you say, "the challenge is over and it is a tie." Haven't they now established a precedent where any time a tribe is behind in a challenge, a member of that tribe can pretend to get hurt/pass out and the challenge will be null and void?!?! Absurd!! Galu forfeited the challenge when their member could not finish it. Ridiculous!! I am not sure if they edited it out, but if I had been a Foa Foa member, I would have argued vociferously that this was unfair and we had won!!

As soon as they brought everyone to tribal council, I knew they were not going to have a double vote-out. I am pleased with that as it is a really bad point in the game to take one player from both sides. Foa Foa needs to eliminate Galu while not also losing members of their own tribe. Still, I am guessing that the next challenge will be a double-elimination because there are simply too many players left on the show. They started with 20 and there just are not enough weeks left in the broadcast to only lose 1 per week. Poor Foa Foa.

One good thing is the move by the core "guys alliance" at Galu to bring Shambo in with them. I think Shambo could be turned to vote with the remaining Foa Foa members once a merge happens. I also think that when the girls see Shambo picked ahead of them, there will be some strong anger and it may make it possible to turn one of the remaining girls once a merge happens.

Yes, at this point I am rooting for Foa Foa... specifically for Russell. Sure, the sock burning incident in episode 1 was bad but I am freaking loving his attitude and competitive fire since then. He is a true character and he is driving the story. I have a hard time seeing the scenario where he gets to the end because the numbers are working hard against him and the rest of Foa Foa right now, but I'll be rooting for it. What's more, if there is a way, I think Russell will find it. I hope he figures out a good way to use the immunity idol to his advantage down the road too.

I feel like we have barely gotten to know Galu so far. We mostly know the now departed Russell and Shambo. Erik is becoming more and more of a character and I bet they make him the new tribal leader.

One final note-- I loved the challenge. Blindfolded but with the guide rolling in a ball. Niiiice!

--Jason "a decent season so far -- Russell is making it really watchable" Evans

[JustAFan]

I completely agree, Jason, that "a tie" was the wrong decision. As you pointed out, Foa Foa had a substantial lead and despite the severity of Russell's condition, Galu should have taken the hit and lost the challenge. But I'm not sure that we'll see future challenges thrown because someone drops out when their team is behind. Kind of hard to fake something as serious as Russell's condition, and I think anything much less than that will be transparent to the CBS Producers. At least I hope so.

I go back and forth on Evil Russell. I can see why you'd pull for him. He clearly is trying to play the game far better than anyone else right now. But he also seems to think he is in more control than he really is. Last week, he was adamant that he would eliminate Liz but instead went with the group and voted out Ashley. He talks tough to the camera but doesn't always follow through. If indeed he is as confident as he comes across on camera, then he is doomed as we have seen in past seasons where the most confident are always the most vulnerable. But part of me thinks he is just talking to fill time and is really not as self-assured as he appears.

Do you ever read the blogs posted by Jeff Probst? He explains why they use this double elimination and he agrees it is not a good thing. But he also implies they have a "better way" to do double eliminations. Hmmm.

http://popwatch.ew.com/2009/10/23/jeff-probst-blogs-survivor-samoa-episode-6/?xid=partner-cnn-todayslatest-Probst%3A+%27Russell%2C+are+you+with+us%3F%27

[JasonEvans]

I completely agree, Jason, that "a tie" was the wrong decision. As you pointed out, Foa Foa had a substantial lead and despite the severity of Russell's condition, Galu should have taken the hit and lost the challenge. But I'm not sure that we'll see future challenges thrown because someone drops out when their team is behind. Kind of hard to fake something as serious as Russell's condition, and I think anything much less than that will be transparent to the CBS Producers. At least I hope so.

I am not saying anyone would throw a future challenge, just that Survivor has set a precedent that could allow for that. I was just taking an illogical decision to its logical conclusion. I was trying to demonstrate what a poor decision it was to end the challenge with no winner. Does that make sense?


I go back and forth on Evil Russell. I can see why you'd pull for him. He clearly is trying to play the game far better than anyone else right now. But he also seems to think he is in more control than he really is. Last week, he was adamant that he would eliminate Liz but instead went with the group and voted out Ashley. He talks tough to the camera but doesn't always follow through. If indeed he is as confident as he comes across on camera, then he is doomed as we have seen in past seasons where the most confident are always the most vulnerable. But part of me thinks he is just talking to fill time and is really not as self-assured as he appears.

Not sure if you noticed, but last episode it looked to me like some of the Evil Russell comments about Liz seemed to be from much earlier in the game. His beard length and clothes looked different. I think the editors pulled clips from a different time in an effort to build up drama that was not really there. It is also worth noting that because of the rain, it was not possible to strategize or tell folks who to vote for.

That said, I agree that Russell is not in as much control as he seems to imply. I think Jaison, especially, is not under Russell's thumb. Then again, if you are a member of Foa Foa, why not do what Russell wants? Your tribe is down and there is nothing wrong with highlighting Russell as leader because the leader is the first one who gets picked off post-merge.


Do you ever read the blogs posted by Jeff Probst? He explains why they use this double elimination and he agrees it is not a good thing. But he also implies they have a "better way" to do double eliminations. Hmmm.

http://popwatch.ew.com/2009/10/23/jeff-probst-blogs-survivor-samoa-episode-6/?xid=partner-cnn-todayslatest-Probst%3A+%27Russell%2C+are+you+with+us%3F%27

Hmmmm, that is interesting. That does not say to me that they have figured something out for the future, it says that they have already done it. It may be from this edition of the show or it may be from Survivor 20 (which is supposed to be yet another All-star version, with good guys and bad guys from Survivor's past-- cool!).

--Jason "just checked the ratings for Survivor and they are building week-to-week, the show shows no signs of slowing down any time soon" Evans

[JustAFan]

I am not saying anyone would throw a future challenge, just that Survivor has set a precedent that could allow for that. I was just taking an illogical decision to its logical conclusion. I was trying to demonstrate what a poor decision it was to end the challenge with no winner. Does that make sense?
Yes, that makes perfect sense. I took your original comment in the wrong direction. Your argument repudiates the faulty logic that lead to a "tie" decision. I now see that you were just explaining what a bad precedent they set. Got it.



Not sure if you noticed, but last episode it looked to me like some of the Evil Russell comments about Liz seemed to be from much earlier in the game. His beard length and clothes looked different. I think the editors pulled clips from a different time in an effort to build up drama that was not really there. It is also worth noting that because of the rain, it was not possible to strategize or tell folks who to vote for.

Wow, I completely missed those details. I did notice a number of times that it was raining, then not raining, then raining, then not, while they talked about "non-stop" rain. I just never connected the dots that this was pure editing. They compress days and days into a 60-minute show minus commercial time. Leaves lots of room to create artificial plots with just a couple snippets of dialogue.



Hmmmm, that is interesting. That does not say to me that they have figured something out for the future, it says that they have already done it.

In fact, I bet we see "the better way" to double eliminations in this week's show. They were planning to eliminate two players last week but settled for one. They still need to eliminate two players, so why not this week? Would they do something as simple as two mini-challenges on the same day? Would they allow the winning tribe to vote out a second member of the losing tribe? (That might be just a bit too punitive.) Would they have a Tribal Council mid-day, on the spot right after a challenge, no time to strategize? Didn't they do something similar to that in a previous episode? (Every time I hear that this is Season 19 of Survivor, I think, wow, I've been watching this show a very long time!)

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Russell has grown on me like my (second) favorite pirate, Rupert!

[JasonEvans]

They did a poor job hiding the boot. I knew Liz was toast. Talking about taking out Jaison was just a very obvious misdirection.

I will be intrigued to see if Russell can get some of the Galu folks to turn on themselves and put him in a position of power. We saw this happen in the very last Survivor season where Tyson and Coach gutted their own tribe and opened the way for JT and Stephen to control the game. could the Galu tribe be stupid enough to let this happen again? They may feel so confident in themselves and their position that they do. Fools!

--Jason "eager to see where we go post-merge" Evans

[JustAFan]

Yes, the very first thing my son said before tribal council was "Liz is gone". It was just way too clear that the talk about Jaison was a diversion. Not sure what else CBS might have done here given the "no vote" last week, but then telling us who was supposed to get voted out at the beginning of this week's show.

I am also looking forward to the merge next week. It seems the "4 men plus Shambo" alliance is shaky at best. Shambo is a complete wild card. Plus, CBS is showing the men to be overconfident, a sure hint that we will see them crash and burn at some point.

It seems that if anybody can come from a 5-member team (Foa Foa) and break up an 8-member team (Galu), it is Evil Russell. It will be fun to watch him scramble right after the merge. I loved the close-up shot of the intensity in his eyes when he was talking to Liz about spotting a Christian. Too funny, knowing what a liar he is! Cracked me up.

[JasonEvans]

Now
that
was
awesome!!!

There was a 10 minute stretch of that episode, where the boot went from Laura to Jaison to Russell to Erik that was just fantastic! Coming into the tribal council, I was about as confused as I ever have been about the vote and who would be voting which way. Great fun!!

Russell's scheming has clearly gone too far and I think no one trusts him at this point. The fact that he played his idol tells me that despite his bravado, he was really unsure of what was going on. If the former Foa Foa folks are to survive, it will be because Natalie and Nick get in good with some members of Galu.

Worth noting that Shambo was clearly on the outside in the latest vote. The Foa Foas may be able to get her on board with them as her Galu tribemates keep on shoving her to the curb. It also seemed to me that John was still listening to Russell last episode and may not have realized what a manipulator Russell is.

It is clear that the Galu guys -- John, Dave, and (looks it up) Brett -- are afraid of Laura and, to a lesser extent, Monica. I could see them getting together with Foa Foa and Shambo to take out Laura or Monica next episode. I think the Galu folks feel very confident and may continue to ignore Foa Foa until it is too late. I could totally see that happening... I hope it does!

One last note-- Erik was a bad dude. His speeches the past couple weeks at Tribal Council were just rude and confrontational. He was so intent on being a macho-man and running that show that he got himself booted... and I love it!

--Jason "long live Russell!!" EVans

[NashvilleDevil]

Jason, agree that this was the episode to really kick the season into another gear. My favorite part was watching Erik's face during the vote.

He could barely suppress his smile from the time Russell played the hidden idol to the first 3 votes when it was 2-1 Jaison. When it became 2-2 he was still a little cocky but once he got the 3rd vote I freaking cracked up when he did the cartoonish GULP. I think Mick's smirk is what really had me on the floor.

The look of shock on his face as his name kept getting called and the near laughter by everyone else was just tremendous. I mean he got voted out 10-2 and Shambo was just twisting in the wind.

I've been waiting for Jaison to do something. I don't know if this was a one time stick it to Erik or if he will continue to be a leader. I mean it was his idea to go after Erik. Just a solid episode and cannot wait for Thursday's installment.

[ivduke]

I have to admit, I couldn't stand Russell when this season began. Over time it has become clear that he is one of the best players on ANY season to play the game. I still don't think he was ever in as much control as he thought, but the guy knows the game. To find two immunity idols with no clues was amazing. I was surprised to see him tell so many of the FOA FOA members, but I guess he has come to realize that he needs them to have any shot.

Was anyone else shocked that Shambo voted for Russel? I thought she was clearly aligned with the 4 Foa's.

Anway I think last night may have been one of my favorite episodes in the entire Survisor franchise.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I have to admit, I couldn't stand Russell when this season began. Over time it has become clear that he is one of the best players on ANY season to play the game. I still don't think he was ever in as much control as he thought, but the guy knows the game. To find two immunity idols with no clues was amazing. I was surprised to see him tell so many of the FOA FOA members, but I guess he has come to realize that he needs them to have any shot.

Was anyone else shocked that Shambo voted for Russel? I thought she was clearly aligned with the 4 Foa's.

Anway I think last night may have been one of my favorite episodes in the entire Survisor franchise.
It took me three episodes to become a big fan of Russell, but he is absolutely the best, for all the reasons you said!

As for Shambo, for her secret alliance with Russell to work, she had to vote for him. I was just hoping that she was smart enough to do so; I'm pretty sure that Russell specifically told her to vote for him.

I hope he finds the next idol, too, and wins the next immunity idol challenge as well.

[riverside6]

the scene of the Galu tribe members following around Russell in the next episode is priceless. Should make for another great episode. The last 2 have been 2 of survivors best ever.

[JasonEvans]

As for Shambo, for her secret alliance with Russell to work, she had to vote for him. I was just hoping that she was smart enough to do so; I'm pretty sure that Russell specifically told her to vote for him.

Exactly. She even played it well by nodding when Laura said, "he just brought a world of hurt on himself." Shambo is pretending to be tight with the Galu folks but secretly likes Russell and the Foa Foa folks.

If Sham votes with Russell, the numbers are 5-5 at this point. I dunno how a tie would be broken. It would make sense for Foa Foa to keep Sham in tight with the Galu 5 so she can know who they plan to vote for and, perhaps, give Foa Foa info that they can use to their advantage at tribal council.

I love that the game keeps on putting the hidden idols back into play. That rocks!! If I am Galu, I am terrified to ever vote against Russell again. I bet Dave and the stronger members of Galu were in total panic when Russell played the idol. They probably never suspected that... who was that woman?... would be voted out.

This has turned into one of the truly great seasons. Russell is an all-timer in the game-- one of the top 5 players ever.

--Jason "the sight of Galu chasing him around next episode... just awesome!!" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Win or lose this game, Russell is on the short list of the greatest Survivor players of all time, right?

More later... but last night's ep was about the 4th great one in a row.

-Jason "I do wonder why John voted as he did-- he may have just guaranteed himself 6th place unless they gave him a top 3 or top 4 promise of some sort" Evans

[NashvilleDevil]

Who do you think Shambo is referring to as a snake next week? It is made to look like Russell but I'm thinking it's Dave.

You are right this is the fourth great one in a row. Funny how that happens when you merge.

I didn't quite understand how the second tiebreaker was going to work seemed unfair to the people who were not involved in the voting tie.

This is the first season I have watched in a long time, so how often has a tribe like Foa Foa with a huge numbers disadvantage been able to gain the advantage?

[feldspar]

If the previews for next week seem to indicate what I think they do (that Russell starts annoying everyone and Foa Foa turns on him) then we're in for a really wild episode and a crazy tribal council when he whips out his THIRD!!!! immunity idol.

[ivduke]

This season is the best one in some time and the last 4 episodes have been outstanding. As I said before I couldn't stand Russell when this began, but I don't see any way you can't call him one of the best game players ever. He should have already earned a spot in an future"All-Star" event and this is before he's even made it to the end of this game. How does he realize the exact rock that Dave picked up was the correct rock, and have the sense to go back and double check it, all while running from Dave and Laura---pure comedy for the several moments it lasted? Interesting that Russell had no intentions of playing the idol this week, and didn't even seem to have a target on him after being the obvious choice last week. He also was not shown telling any of the FOA that he had yet another one. GALU is in deep trouble and I think we will need to see another major switch if they are going to stop the bleeding.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I just love Russell's game. Love it, love it, love it!:cool:

[Heelkiller1]

Russels the man ,I hope he goes all the way.

[NashvilleDevil]

Another great episode and Russell was brilliant in his maneuverings. I did agree with Jaison about Shambo but I don't know how she goes back to her former tribemates after openly mocking them the last couple tribals.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Another great episode and Russell was brilliant in his maneuverings. I did agree with Jaison about Shambo but I don't know how she goes back to her former tribemates after openly mocking them the last couple tribals.
I think Russell better use his hidden immunity idol next week (unless he wins the immunity challenge, which I'd love to see.) I'm almost surprised Foa Foa didn't turn on him in a blind side this week, as the coming attractions for next week allude to.

[DukeUsul]

I think Russell better use his hidden immunity idol next week (unless he wins the immunity challenge, which I'd love to see.) I'm almost surprised Foa Foa didn't turn on him in a blind side this week, as the coming attractions for next week allude to.

Russell better be careful about pissing too many people off. He needs them to vote for him.

[JasonEvans]

The decision to alienate Shambo and vote out John instead of Dave really mystifies me. What really shocks me is they did not include Shambo in the decision-making process. They did not even try to explain to her what was going on. They are taking a real risk that she abandons them, though I don't see her suddenly deciding that she wants to cast her lot with Dave and the Galu folks that have been her enemies for so long.

I don't see Foa turning on Russell yet. Makes no sense for them to do that next week. He is their primary connection to Shambo and I cannot imagine they would want to put themselves at a numbers disadvantage at this point. I guess, maybe, if Shambo 100% assured them that she would be on their side to the end, they might feel ok voting him out but they saw how Galu blew their lead and I suspect Foa will do their best to avoid the same thing.

I think Dave will be toast this coming week, in an effort to keep Shambo happy. They probably take out Monica after that as Shambo really does not like her either. Those two are clearly on the chopping block in my mind.

After that comes Brett, who has barely been on the show so far. Heck, I had to look up his name. He will get some screen time before being ousted.

As for Russell, the interesting thing is that if he makes it far in the game, folks may keep him around because he may be seen as someone who is such a schemer that the jury will not like him. He could be the guy you want to be sitting next to when it comes to the jury vote, which could keep him in the game. Of course, I think Russell is such a good manipulator, he may convince the jury to vote for him anyway.

--Jason "what a great season!!" Evans

[JustAFan]

Yes, this has indeed been a great season, at least for the past 4 or 5 weeks.

I agree it made no sense to at least give Shambo a hint that they were voting out John. The best explanation I can offer is that Shambo seems so unstable, they are just afraid to ever tell her anything for fear of her blurting it out in one of her unpredictable angry tirades. Given that she had a "dream" that Dave was next, Shambo might have scared Foa Foa into thinking that she is a loose cannon best left alone as often as possible. It will indeed be interesting to see how she responds to last week's vote. She will certainly realize she is on the outs with both Galu and with Foa Foa. My guess is Russell will pull her aside quickly and reassure her that they had a good reason (yet to be fabricated and heard from Russell!) for taking out John. Whether or not Shambo sees right through Russell is unlikely, but still possible.

And yes, Brett is indeed the mystery player of the season. He has had practically no camera time whatsoever. Hard to see him going soon since CBS always give everyone at least a couple shots at TV face time, especially if they make it this far into the game. (Obviously the first 2 or 3 voted out each season don't have that luxury.)

So depending on the immunity challenge winner, next week has to be either Dave or Monica, unless Foa Foa is completely stupid and tries to blindside Russell. Foa Foa barely has numbers now. You would hope they would see what just happened to Galu and not take the same suicidal path and lose the numbers advantage just to take Russell out early. But as John said in his farewell, there has not been a lot of analytical thinking going on this season!

[wandalee]

The finale is tonight at 8:00. Who's going to win?? I'm pulling for Russell since he's played such an awesome game, but I don't know if he'll get it. I'd be happy with any of the 4 old Foa Foa members.

[Heelkiller1]

Russels played as good of a game as you can play,hope he wins

[JasonEvans]

Angry and disgusted, that's me. I cannot believe Natalie won. Sheesh!!!

Russell controlled the game. The argument that any of those folks who were there with him had done something strategic to be there with him is total bunk.

Had he not found the idols (and known exactly when to play them) then Foa is all gone weeks ago.

Had he not made the alliance with Shambo and turned her then Foa is all gone weeks ago.

Had he not convinced John to swap and vote off Laura then, again, Foa could easily have been all gone weeks ago.

What did Natalie do?!?! WHAT?!?! Nothing!! Ok, maybe she helped convince folks to take out Erik, but nothing else.

--Jason "I am disgusted at Galu!!" Evans

[mr. synellinden]

Angry and disgusted, that's me. I cannot believe Natalie won. Sheesh!!!

Russell controlled the game. The argument that any of those folks who were there with him had done something strategic to be there with him is total bunk.

Had he not found the idols (and known exactly when to play them) then Foa is all gone weeks ago.

Had he not made the alliance with Shambo and turned her then Foa is all gone weeks ago.

Had he not convinced John to swap and vote off Laura then, again, Foa could easily have been all gone weeks ago.

What did Natalie do?!?! WHAT?!?! Nothing!! Ok, maybe she helped convince folks to take out Erik, but nothing else.

--Jason "I am disgusted at Galu!!" Evans

I have never been as angry with the outcome of Survivor. There never has been a more worthy competitor who played the game as hard and as well as you can, and the jury faults him for that?

You are right, neither Natalie or Mick are sitting there if Russell didn't make the plays he did to control the game and overcome an 8-4 deficit at the merge.

In my opinion, Russell lost it by not stating the obvious argument during the opening statement:

From Day One I played this game as hard as I possibly could. I wanted to win, period. And I was willing to do whatever it takes to win the game. In our situation, down 8-4 at the merge, it would have been impossible to win without making each and every strategic move I made, from coaching Natalie to plant the seed that became the blindside of Erik, from finding a second idol without a clue and using it to vote out Kelley (and remember I had to make the call whether Galu was voting for me or using that as a decoy, which I did), to convincing Shambo to turn on Galu, to convincing John to switch his vote to Laura. You may think all of those moves were lying, cheating and stealing, but each one was necessary for my survival in this game (and the two people sitting next to me). That is the name of the game - Survivor - and the moves that some of you think lack integrity, were the only way I could last in this game. Rather than look down at me for that, you should respect how well and how hard I played this game, and realize you would have played just as hard, and perhaps just as decpetively, if you were as big of an underdog as I was at the time of the merge. If you are angry that you didn't take advantage of the lead you had, that's fine. But don't penalize me for playing this game the way I had to under the circumstances. And keep in mind that the two people sitting next to me are here because of how hard and how strategically I played this game.

I just don't think Russell played up the - we were the underdog, I had no choice, respect the overcoming the odds - as much as he should have.

Still though, the jury got this one wrong. The only people that were truly "backstabbed" by Russell were Shambo and Jaison. He got Shambo's vote and when Jaison was voted out, one of the three Foa Foa were going to feel backstabbed, so there was no way out of that.

On a side note, how bizarre were some of those jury questions? A bro-date?

[InSpades]

Admittedly I didn't watch this season very closely, but I enjoyed the finale. I thought the whole "who played the better game" dynamic at the end was fascinating. The question of "can Russell be the best player and not win?". I mean, the whole point of the game is to win, right? I guess you can make the point that basically Russell decided who would be the final 3, but if in doing so he kept himself from having a chance to win the game then his strategy was flawed from the beginning. The thing I don't think he got was that there's nothing compelling the jury to vote for the person who "played the best game". Additionally the jury's sense of who played the best game could be entirely different from anyone elses. Possibly there's even a sense of resentment that they got outplayed so badly that they don't want to reward the person who did it. The notion of the game being "random" is actually a huge negative for the show. If the game was truly random then it would lose a lot of the interest. Anyway... I'm sure Russell will get another shot at a million dollars in next season's all-star cast. How can they not have him back?

[DukeUsul]

How can you be angry? Russell played the game almost perfectly.... except he was such an &%^ that everyone hated him. That's a HUGE part of the game Russell forgot about. You've got to be at least nice enough to folks to get them to vote for you. That's how it works.

[mr. synellinden]

How can you be angry? Russell played the game almost perfectly.... except he was such an &%^ that everyone hated him. That's a HUGE part of the game Russell forgot about. You've got to be at least nice enough to folks to get them to vote for you. That's how it works.

I don't think anybody hated him. I also don't think he was an &%^ to anyone on the jury. If they are upset that they got outplayed, then fine. But that is the object of the game, to outplay your fellow competitors and win.

It's like saying at the end of a sporting event, well, you played better than me and scored more points, but you played too hard for my liking, so you lose.

Yes, there is a big social part of the game, but what did Russell do that was so anti-social that Mick, Jaison and Natalie didn't do. They did whatever they could to overcome the 8-4 deficit and all were part of blindsiding the Galu members of the jury. It's just that without Russell they couldn't have done any of it. So why is he punished for that? Was Natalie really more likeable and social than Russell.

What's really ironic is that I think Erik's little speech may have swayed the jury, and Natalie was the one who instigated him being blindsided.

[NashvilleDevil]

I don't think anybody hated him. I also don't think he was an &%^ to anyone on the jury. If they are upset that they got outplayed, then fine. But that is the object of the game, to outplay your fellow competitors and win.

It's like saying at the end of a sporting event, well, you played better than me and scored more points, but you played too hard for my liking, so you lose.

Yes, there is a big social part of the game, but what did Russell do that was so anti-social that Mick, Jaison and Natalie didn't do. They did whatever they could to overcome the 8-4 deficit and all were part of blindsiding the Galu members of the jury. It's just that without Russell they couldn't have done any of it. So why is he punished for that? Was Natalie really more likeable and social than Russell.

What's really ironic is that I think Erik's little speech may have swayed the jury, and Natalie was the one who instigated him being blindsided.

I have a feeling Erik was upset that Russell did the exact same thing that he was planning on doing but Russell was able to pull it off. I thought it was garbage that Natalie won. I enjoyed the season but the finale made it like a great movie with a terrible ending.

I am looking forward to the Villains v. Heroes and I have a feeling that Russell may be back on our TVs in a little over a month.

[wandalee]

The folks on the jury ususally won't vote for someone who has lied to them. Juries want someone who is honest the whole time. That's what killed Russell. But lying is a part of Survivor. Survivor is a game, not real life. These folks on the jury can't seem to make that distinction!

[DukeUsul]

The folks on the jury ususally won't vote for someone who has lied to them. Juries want someone who is honest the whole time. That's what killed Russell. But lying is a part of Survivor. Survivor is a game, not real life. These folks on the jury can't seem to make that distinction!

Come on folks. Survivor isn't about outplaying or outwitting everyone. It's about lasting until the end and making sure the people on the jury like you well enough to vote for you. Russell was a jerk and a smug one at that. He screwed over a lot of people. That gets you to the end but it doesn't get them to vote for you. That's the way it's always been.

[InSpades]

Supposedly the casts for next season are:
Heroes:

* Stephanie (Palau/Guatemala)
* Candice (Cook Islands)
* Amanda (China/FvF)
* Cirie (Panama/FvF)
* Sugar (Gabon)
* Tom (Palau)
* Colby (Australia/All-Stars)
* JT (Tocantins)
* Rupert (Pearl Islands/All-Stars)
* James (China/FvF)

Villains:

* Sandra (Pearl Islands)
* Jerri (Australia/All-Stars)
* Danielle (Panama)
* Parvati (Cook Islands/FvF)
* Courtney (China)
* Coach (Tocantins)
* Tyson (Tocantins)
* Russell (Samoa)
* Randy (Gabon)
* Boston Rob (Marquesas/All-Stars)

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I spent most of Sunday night driving home from NYC, but did get in just before 10 and was able to watch the jury and obviously the verdict after 10:00. (I'll watch the first 1:50 later tonight). I agree with the analysis above that Russell should have given the speech outlined - I outplayed and outwitted all of you, vote for me, I deserve it. And yeah, I'm sure he'll be in the Heroes vs. Villians show, but I won't be surprised when he's gone the first time he doesn't have immunity, hidden or regular - everyone knows how good a player he is, so they won't be fooled by his schtick.

Like everyone, I hated Russell on the first show and loved him by the third or fourth. His "offer" to Natalie (of $10,000) for Jeff to say he's the sole survivor was mystifying and only showed his small-minded ego. But Russell's jibes at Natalie on the CBS Morning Show, where he was a very ungracious loser, well, I like him a lot less after seeing that. He knows he was the best player, maybe ever, and we know it. And good for Natalie for sticking up for herself and being polite in doing it - she could have sunk to Russell's level but didn't. Show good sportsmanship when you get screwed by the refs (think no foul call when Boozer went to the rim to end the 2002 season) - you can't change the outcome, so you might as well be above it and let everyone else say you got screwed.

[InSpades]

I spent most of Sunday night driving home from NYC, but did get in just before 10 and was able to watch the jury and obviously the verdict after 10:00. (I'll watch the first 1:50 later tonight). I agree with the analysis above that Russell should have given the speech outlined - I outplayed and outwitted all of you, vote for me, I deserve it. And yeah, I'm sure he'll be in the Heroes vs. Villians show, but I won't be surprised when he's gone the first time he doesn't have immunity, hidden or regular - everyone knows how good a player he is, so they won't be fooled by his schtick.


As for Russell being a known quantity... that depends when this show started taping. If it's airing next month then it's already done taping. Did season 19 start airing before season 20 started filming? It's possible that no one knows Russell at all and he works his magic again.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

As for Russell being a known quantity... that depends when this show started taping. If it's airing next month then it's already done taping. Did season 19 start airing before season 20 started filming? It's possible that no one knows Russell at all and he works his magic again.
Good point. If it airs in February, then the other allstars hadn't seen too much of Russell when the new show went on location.

[NashvilleDevil]

Good point. If it airs in February, then the other allstars hadn't seen too much of Russell when the new show went on location.

From what I've read Heroes and Villains was shot right after Survivor Samoa so Russell's scheming is known by Probst.

Why are Parv, Cirie and James coming back? I would have loved to see Terry, the airline pilot who won every immunity challenge, get another crack at it.

[DukeUsul]

He knows he was the best player, maybe ever, and we know it.

I just can't agree that he was maybe the best player ever. He completely and utterly failed at one of the most important parts of the game - winning votes from the jury. He could have done much of the scheming, searching for idols, competing in challenges without being an arrogant jerk.

[mr. synellinden]

Supposedly the casts for next season are:
Heroes:

* Stephanie (Palau/Guatemala)
* Candice (Cook Islands)
* Amanda (China/FvF)
* Cirie (Panama/FvF)
* Sugar (Gabon)
* Tom (Palau)
* Colby (Australia/All-Stars)
* JT (Tocantins)
* Rupert (Pearl Islands/All-Stars)
* James (China/FvF)

Villains:

* Sandra (Pearl Islands)
* Jerri (Australia/All-Stars)
* Danielle (Panama)
* Parvati (Cook Islands/FvF)
* Courtney (China)
* Coach (Tocantins)
* Tyson (Tocantins)
* Russell (Samoa)
* Randy (Gabon)
* Boston Rob (Marquesas/All-Stars)

Confirmation on the participants (http://tv.yahoo.com/blog/why-were-disappointed-by-the-survivor-heroes-vs-villains-cast--899)and a link to an interview with several of them. I, for one, think it's a great group and can't wait for the season to start.