New iPhone app to help beat speed traps...

[bjornolf]

There's now an iPhone app that syncs with your GPS and tells you when you're approaching a speed trap or red light camera.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/2 ... eed-traps/

They were talking about this on the radio yesterday, saying how great they thought it was. People were calling in talking about how the red light cameras and speed trap cameras cause more danger than they prevent, as people who know about them slam on their brakes around them. People were saying they felt it was an unconstitutional way for cities to make money, as they prevent a person from facing their accuser, and they're REALLY annoyed that some insurance companies are trying to get license points added to the infractions (right now it's just a fine). They were also trashing the DC police chief, who said that users of the program are "cowardly". http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local ... 74717.html I have trouble seeing how using one of these apps is cowardly. To me, it seems smart. She's just pissed cause it'll hurt revenues. According to one website the radio show quoted, the DC area (including a couple VA and MD counties right around DC) has taken in well over $500M over the last three years between red light cameras, speed cameras, and street sweepers equipped with sensors that report parking violations. I mean, these things aren't about safety, they're about making money. You don't even find out you were caught for a month. How does that protect you? And most people just get pissed off by that, it doesn't really change their habits the way the experience of being stopped by a cop might. Not to mention, then the driver knows EXACTLY where the camera is, so he/she can just obey the law around the camera and go back to his/her ways as soon as he/she's past it. The same website that gave the figures said that the vast majority of the money is going back into buying more of this equipment. If they really wanted to protect people, they'd spend the money on hiring and training more police officers. God knows DC could use more of those. Just my $0.02.

Discuss... ;)

[bjornolf]

Sorry, the links screwed up for some reason. Here they are:

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/20/new-iphone-apps-help-drivers-beat-speed-traps/

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/Devices-that-warn-drivers-of-speed_-red-light-cameras-draw-police-ire-7930619-50074717.html

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

Maybe California should look into these? Seeing as how they can't pay their own bills

[allenmurray]

There's now an iPhone app that syncs with your GPS and tells you when you're approaching a speed trap or red light camera.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/2 ... eed-traps/

They were talking about this on the radio yesterday, saying how great they thought it was. People were calling in talking about how the red light cameras and speed trap cameras cause more danger than they prevent, as people who know about them slam on their brakes around them. People were saying they felt it was an unconstitutional way for cities to make money, as they prevent a person from facing their accuser, and they're REALLY annoyed that some insurance companies are trying to get license points added to the infractions (right now it's just a fine). They were also trashing the DC police chief, who said that users of the program are "cowardly". http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local ... 74717.html I have trouble seeing how using one of these apps is cowardly. To me, it seems smart. She's just pissed cause it'll hurt revenues. According to one website the radio show quoted, the DC area (including a couple VA and MD counties right around DC) has taken in well over $500M over the last three years between red light cameras, speed cameras, and street sweepers equipped with sensors that report parking violations. I mean, these things aren't about safety, they're about making money. You don't even find out you were caught for a month. How does that protect you? And most people just get pissed off by that, it doesn't really change their habits the way the experience of being stopped by a cop might. Not to mention, then the driver knows EXACTLY where the camera is, so he/she can just obey the law around the camera and go back to his/her ways as soon as he/she's past it. The same website that gave the figures said that the vast majority of the money is going back into buying more of this equipment. If they really wanted to protect people, they'd spend the money on hiring and training more police officers. God knows DC could use more of those. Just my $0.02.

Discuss... ;)

Everything you are saying is true. However, the indignation seems a little misplaced. If you really did run a red light, if you really were speeding, why the indignation and self-righteousness. Shouldn't you just "man (or woman) up" and accept the consequences. After all, I know an even better way to avoid these "traps" than the iphone app - not running red lights and not exceeding the speed limit.

[Bluedog]

I think the iPhone app is a great idea, and I agree with everything you said. Red light cameras make me a more unsafe driver. When the light unexpectedly turns yellow at an intersection with a red light camera, I either have to slam on the breaks or if I don't think I can stop in time, I speed up to get through the intersection in time (both not good options). However, in NoVa and DC it's not as big of a deal, in my opinion, because of the great countdowns at nearly every intersection that are supposed to inform pedestrians how much time is left before the light changes. I'd use those as a driver all the time to know when I need to slow down before the intersection. However, I don't live there anymore, so I don't get to enjoy those countdowns and now live where red light cameras abound without knowing when the light is turning yellow; quite annoying.

Speed cameras, on the other hand, don't make my driving that much more unsafe. However, I could see it doing so for others who slam on their breaks when they witness a speed camera.

Also, in case you were curious, as long as you have entered the intersection by the time the light turns red, you're okay. It's not that you have to clear the intersection by an appropriate time. So, if you're making a left turn, you can without hesitation go into the middle of the intersection, wait for traffic to clear at the yellow/red, and then turn without getting a ticket for going through the red. It works based on the electromagnetic field of the car in two positions, so if one was activated a while ago, it doesn't trigger. If they're activated in quick succession and the light is red, then it takes a picture. In most states, it's also illegal to take a picture of the driver/front of the car, so it only takes it from behind and the owner of the vehicle is responsible for paying the fine. Probably more info than anybody wanted to know on this thread, but I found it interesting when I learned it.

[bjornolf]

To Allenmurray: Well, first of all, in the DC area, you run the VERY real risk of being rear ended if you're the first person to stop at a yellow or red light. At least two or three people run almost every yellow/red light around here. I guess it's not that I'm so indignant about the cameras. I'm more just annoyed that this police chief is calling people that use such a device "cowardly" and branding them criminals, and that they so play up the safety part of it, when safety was MAYBE 10% of the real reason they did this. It's just disingenuous to me, and it ticks me off. Her getting all up on her high horse over it because it hurts her department's pocket book.

To BlueDog: I don't specifically know where the red light cameras are, but there are still a LOT of intersections in NoVA and DC that DON'T have the cool countdowns on the crosswalks, or they only work if someone's actually pushed the button to cross, so if there are no pedestrians present, it doesn't help. I have definitely found those helpful, though, in the past. Also, I didn't know how the cameras worked. Thanks for that info, it's good to know.

As to your comment about the turning left thing, that was the only thing I got deducted for in my driving test here in NoVA when I went to get my license at age 16. There was a line of cars going straight in the opposite direction and I pulled right out into the middle of the intersection to wait my turn. The tester told me I wasn't supposed to pull out until the opportunity to go was actually imminent. It was a 4 point deduction at the time, so I got a 96/100 on my test. I never forgot that little tidbit, though I do still break it at times.

Also, in relation to the speeding cameras, I haven't witnessed this, but the guy that called in to the radio said that he witnessed a bunch of people slowing drastically near a camera, one of them getting rear ended by a guy that didn't see the camera. I guess it's kind of like the state trooper phenomenon. There's always a moving slowdown around a state trooper on the move, and a state trooper with his lights on, standing beside a car writing out a ticket, will cause people on I-95 to slow to about 40 in a 65 MPH zone and cause a half mile backup. THAT is one of my biggest pet peeves when driving around here. What, do people think that the cop's going drop his pen and clipboard, run back to his car, and come pull them over? Really? People around here slow more for a cop in the act of giving a ticket than they do for one standing by the side of the road aiming a radar gun at them. It just makes ZERO sense to me.

[Clipsfan]

Maybe California should look into these? Seeing as how they can't pay their own bills

I can't speak for all of Cali, but there are at least 6 intersections with cameras within a mile of me and quite a few more as you spread out. People I know only tend to get caught by them late at night when they're too tired to think about them.

[allenmurray]

To Allenmurray: Well, first of all, in the DC area, you run the VERY real risk of being rear ended if you're the first person to stop at a yellow or red light. At least two or three people run almost every yellow/red light around here. I guess it's not that I'm so indignant about the cameras. I'm more just annoyed that this police chief is calling people that use such a device "cowardly" and branding them criminals, and that they so play up the safety part of it, when safety was MAYBE 10% of the real reason they did this. It's just disingenuous to me, and it ticks me off. Her getting all up on her high horse over it because it hurts her department's pocket book.

I am a frequent visitor to DC as it is my pre-Durham home.

Think of your logic - someone has to be the first person to stop at a yellow or red light. Why can't it be there person that sees it turn red?

[blazindw]

TTHAT is one of my biggest pet peeves when driving around here. What, do people think that the cop's going drop his pen and clipboard, run back to his car, and come pull them over? Really? People around here slow more for a cop in the act of giving a ticket than they do for one standing by the side of the road aiming a radar gun at them. It just makes ZERO sense to me.

In my hometown in Michigan, I have seen exactly that thing happen. The cop had the person's driver's license, got back in his car and pulled over another speeder, grabbed her license and wrote out tickets for both cars. If you're the other car, what are you going to do...leave? You can't, he has your ID. So yes, that is entirely possible. Also, it's so you don't speed and accidentally clip the cop, because then you're in a whole world of problems.

I have one of the speed trap iPhone apps, and it's not really that updated yet in DC. It's just like Gasbag, where it's users that update the locations of the speed traps, red light and speeding cameras. I think it's being updated more now, but that is the only thing that is slowing it down and had made it unreliable for me so far.

[bjornolf]

I am a frequent visitor to DC as it is my pre-Durham home.

Think of your logic - someone has to be the first person to stop at a yellow or red light. Why can't it be there person that sees it turn red?

Like I said, cause that person runs the very real risk of being rear ended. I've been rear ended doing that, and I didn't even slam on the brakes to stop. I've also been ALMOST rear ended doing that (person behind me came to a SCREECHING halt to keep from hitting me).

[bjornolf]

In my hometown in Michigan, I have seen exactly that thing happen. The cop had the person's driver's license, got back in his car and pulled over another speeder, grabbed her license and wrote out tickets for both cars. If you're the other car, what are you going to do...leave? You can't, he has your ID. So yes, that is entirely possible. Also, it's so you don't speed and accidentally clip the cop, because then you're in a whole world of problems.


Yes, but do you have to slow to 30 mph UNDER the speed limit and cause a half mile backup?

[throatybeard]

This doesn't sound like a very good idea to me.

Speeding is one of those things I did a lot from age 18-23 and then though better of around 30. I don't think I've been more than 5 over in the last few years. And I found it results in less stress about getting caught.

[kmspeaks]

Like I said, cause that person runs the very real risk of being rear ended. I've been rear ended doing that, and I didn't even slam on the brakes to stop. I've also been ALMOST rear ended doing that (person behind me came to a SCREECHING halt to keep from hitting me).

I've seen this happen as well. When the light turns yellow people speed up not slow down. A few years ago there was an e-mail passed around, You know you're from Northern Virginia when . . . One of the items on the list was a yellow light means 5-6 more cars can make it through the intersection and a red light means 2-3 more. This is only a slight exaggeration of how the majority of people in the area drive.

[bjornolf]

Are you kidding me? That's not an exaggeration at all. I get a chuckle when I'm going through a yellow or red at counting the cars that follow me. I don't like to run reds, but I will run yellows (I won't usually speed up, but I don't slow down, either), I admit it. And I've had times where the light turned yellow while I was waiting in the intersection to turn left when they have the green circle instead of arrow, then turned red right as I got to go. I've looked in the rear view mirror some of these times and seen up to FOUR cars following me through, and this is when I didn't get to actually turn until after it was red and the only reason I was going was so that I wouldn't block the intersection when others were trying to go. It's pretty insane.

[snowdenscold]

Yeah, there have been plenty of times here in NoVa where I've felt guilty because I went through a light a bit late, only to realize there were 1-3 cars behind me who went through too. They made me look pretty good =)