WSOP thread

[A-Tex Devil]

Any DBR readers going to the World Series of Poker this year? I remember enjoying reading about Jason's exploits last year. I won a home game competition to go this year to this upcoming weekend's $1500 buy in, so I'll be up there disappointing my friends who each now have a stake in me.

Never been there during the world series before, but anticipate it's a pretty wild scene at the Rio. Any tips on satellites? Are cash games easier or harder than usual (I'm low stakes, $1-$2, maybe $2-$4 NLHE)? I've always found Vegas $1-$2 games a pretty easy way to win some money without putting a ton of money at risk. Lots and lots of beginners to "teach."

Hopefully most of my time will be spent at my tourney, but I am also a realist :)

[JasonEvans]

Tell us all about your experience!!

I did not make it out this year. Not sure when I will go again, but I hope to do it some day soon. I am thinking about setting up a group of friends to play and "sponsor" one of us to go next year. That's a good way to share in the excitement and the profits... though the odds of profits are slim and none ;)

--Jason "for folks who want to read about the past, here is my blog from last year: http://scoopthepot.blogspot.com/" Evans

[snowdenscold]

I wish I had gone - I could have seen one of my good friends win his bracelet in the $10K heads-up event.

[A-Tex Devil]

I wish I had gone - I could have seen one of my good friends win his bracelet in the $10K heads-up event.

He's a former UVa student, right? That's some win.

I think my little poker group doesn't expect much (I was certainly an upset winner), but some of them are coming along so it should be fun. What will be cool is that the big HORSE tourney is going on at the same time, so all the big guys will be around (and if they do well in that, not in my tourney :D)

I may sell my soul and do a twitter account for this (I am very anti-Twitter, but it seems this is something it makes sense for). If I do, I'll post it. I have a hard enough time keeping up with what's going on at the table, though, I may not think to post as often as folks would like.

[snowdenscold]

He's a former UVa student, right? That's some win.

Former grad school, current law school.

[JasonEvans]

How is it going A-Tex?!?! Updates, we want updates!!

All the pros are playing in the "pro championship" right now -- the $50,000 H.O.R.S.E. event. They've been playing for several hours and no one has been eliminated yet, though Greg Raymer and David Singer are getting close.

The best player in the world is in the upper-middle of the pack right now.
http://www.ftpbluff.com/admin/images/__Selected/IMGP5393.JPG

--Jason "Ivey already has 2 bracelets and 5 cashes this year... and he does not play in nearly as many bracelet events as some of the other pros" Evans

[A-Tex Devil]

About to head downstairs in 20 to start $1500 tourney. I am hoping there will be pros at my table still in HORSE getting blinded off :D. I did pretty good in cash games last night and saw some awful, awful behavior I don't even see at the janky poker houses in Austin. Dealers and floor people are too tolerant. Hopefully the tourney will be a little bit better on that end.

The HORSE tourney is wild. They only had about 90-something entries this year, but name someone you know, and they are in it. Only 5 or so people busted yesterday so everyone is still alive pretty much. Every table has like 3 recognizable faces. I am not much for celebrity-worship, but it was pretty impressive to see all that talent in one room. Doyle Brunson almost ran over my toe with his rascal. He drives that think like a NASCAR car.

Anyway, wish me luck.

Edited to say -- the guys staking me asked me to twitter if I can. I am not a twitter fan, but I obliged --- www.twitter.com/scott_at_wsop

[JasonEvans]

I made sure to play in events last year that were not around the $50k HORSE specifically so I could play with some big pros.

-Jason "good luck!!" Evans

[JasonEvans]

$50k HORSE update--

Which of the following tables would you most want to sit at--


John Juanda, Johnny Chan, Mike Matusow, and Scotty Nguyen
Gus Hansen, Howard Lederer, Gabe Kaplan (Mr. Kotter), and Jerry Buss (owner of the Lakers)
Jennifer Harman, Chris "Jesus" Ferguson, Max Pescatori, and Hasan Habib
Phil Ivey, Doyle Brunson, and David Benyamine
Annie Duke, Barry Greenstein, John "World" Hennigan, and Patrick Antonius
Daniel Negreanu, Erik Seidel, Andy Black, David Grey, and Chau Giang


Well, you probably would not want to sit with any of those guys, if you wanted to keep your money, but it sure would be fun to play with them if you had nothing at stake.

--Jason "the $50k event is da bomb!" Evans

[JasonEvans]

I've been following A-Tex's progress on Twitter. He just busted about an hour ago. Looks like about half the field is still in it, so he seems to have finished somewhere around the middle of the pack. Nice try, my friend! Now, tell us some stories of your adventure!

--Jason "winning takes a ton of skill... and even more luck" Evans

[A-Tex Devil]

Soooo...... exhausted after 11 hours of poker today. 5 in the WSOP and another 6.5 in a tourney at Caesars where I busted out with a straight to a rivered flush near bubble. Anyway, it was fun and I would do it again in a heartbeat. Here is the hand I busted on - not perfectly played, but have discussed it ad nauseum, and I'm confident now it's defensible:

I have 7500 in chips in small blind. Average is nearing 9K. I have a pretty tight table image, but I had just shoved two hands earlier (with really good hand) and didn't have to show. Anyway, I get AK. Blinds are 100-200 with 25 dollar antes. 3 people limp, I bump to $1000 (should have bet more, but that's another discussion and doesn't really play into post flop play). Only button calls me. He is loose and had raised a lot of pots and BARELY had me covered.

Flop is J88. I make a continuation bet of $1700, he calls. I am thinking he doesn't have the jacks here, or he'd bump me. I also think he raises with an 8. He has to be worried about my hand as well as I could have any of the pre flop monsters based on my line so far with a paired board.

Turn is 4 -- blank. I slow down and check. If I bet, I'd pretty much have to bet most of my stack and I wanted to see what he would do. If he bet out, I would have a decision to make. If he checked (based on past behavior), I am pretty sure he's inducing me to make a bet on the river and I'm getting away from the hand. He bets $2000 into a pot that is already over $6K which was a weird bet -- smallish. I went in the tank knowing I had to push or fold. Calling wasn't an option, even though he kinda priced me in, and I was certain he didn't have jacks or an 8.

So I think - what is he calling me with pre-flop. Not a high pocket pair (9s or higher) because he wouldn't flat call 2 limpers ahead of him. Prob not A8 or hand like that. **MAYBE** AJ, but I think he checks behind me there (and raises from button pre flop). If he paired the 4, I think I can get him off of it. The only hands that I don't think I could push him off of (not necessarily the same as what I am actually behind) that he MIGHT have are quad 8s or a set of 4s. But quads are unlikely. So I pretty much narrowed the hands that he would actually call my push with to a set of 4s based on the board and my action so far.

Then add on to that the fact that in a field that large, you have to have it in you to take big pots. If you aren't blessed with a huge stack and don't try to force people out, sometimes even with all of your chips, when you have the worst of it, you will have to be very very lucky to get very far. So I push my last ~5K or so chips representing a big pocket pair (and, honestly, I could have had a hand as bad as 99 with that line). Again, he has me barely covered. If he calls me and loses, he has less than 500 chips...... so he calls and I lost. What do you think he had?

[JasonEvans]

Soooo...... exhausted after 11 hours of poker today. 5 in the WSOP and another 6.5 in a tourney at Caesars where I busted out with a straight to a rivered flush near bubble. Anyway, it was fun and I would do it again in a heartbeat. Here is the hand I busted on - not perfectly played, but have discussed it ad nauseum, and I'm confident now it's defensible:

I have 7500 in chips in small blind. Average is nearing 9K. I have a pretty tight table image, but I had just shoved two hands earlier (with really good hand) and didn't have to show. Anyway, I get AK. Blinds are 100-200 with 25 dollar antes. 3 people limp, I bump to $1000 (should have bet more, but that's another discussion and doesn't really play into post flop play). Only button calls me. He is loose and had raised a lot of pots and BARELY had me covered.

Flop is J88. I make a continuation bet of $1700, he calls. I am thinking he doesn't have the jacks here, or he'd bump me. I also think he raises with an 8. He has to be worried about my hand as well as I could have any of the pre flop monsters based on my line so far with a paired board.

Turn is 4 -- blank. I slow down and check. If I bet, I'd pretty much have to bet most of my stack and I wanted to see what he would do. If he bet out, I would have a decision to make. If he checked (based on past behavior), I am pretty sure he's inducing me to make a bet on the river and I'm getting away from the hand. He bets $2000 into a pot that is already over $6K which was a weird bet -- smallish. I went in the tank knowing I had to push or fold. Calling wasn't an option, even though he kinda priced me in, and I was certain he didn't have jacks or an 8.

So I think - what is he calling me with pre-flop. Not a high pocket pair (9s or higher) because he wouldn't flat call 2 limpers ahead of him. Prob not A8 or hand like that. **MAYBE** AJ, but I think he checks behind me there (and raises from button pre flop). If he paired the 4, I think I can get him off of it. The only hands that I don't think I could push him off of (not necessarily the same as what I am actually behind) that he MIGHT have are quad 8s or a set of 4s. But quads are unlikely. So I pretty much narrowed the hands that he would actually call my push with to a set of 4s based on the board and my action so far.

Then add on to that the fact that in a field that large, you have to have it in you to take big pots. If you aren't blessed with a huge stack and don't try to force people out, sometimes even with all of your chips, when you have the worst of it, you will have to be very very lucky to get very far. So I push my last ~5K or so chips representing a big pocket pair (and, honestly, I could have had a hand as bad as 99 with that line). Again, he has me barely covered. If he calls me and loses, he has less than 500 chips...... so he calls and I lost. What do you think he had?

My question is-- what could you beat after he bet that $2000 on the turn? What could he have had that you could beat? You can beat a bluff but nothing else.

So, aside from a bluff, what hands does his betting represent.

He has certainly bet like someone with a small or medium pocket pair. Call the pre-flop bets and then feel good when the flop brings junk-- paired junk is even better because it reduces the odds that you hit something. If he has a small-medium pocket pair, then you are in search of an ace or a king (or perhaps the board making 2 pair that was higher than his pocket pair).

He could have A-J. From the button, A-J works with his pre-flop betting. What's more, when you bet $1700 on the flop, the A-J will always call you. It cannot raise out of fear that you have a high pocket pair. When you then check the turn, the A-J starts feeling good and that's where the $2000 bet comes from. I would be very afraid of A-J, especially because it eliminates one of your outs on the river if he calls your push.

This hand would scare the !#@%!@^ out of me in your shoes. The number of hands that beat you are voluminous but the number of hands you beat are tiny. Then again, there is so much in the pot that you almost have to make a stand, especially if you are feeling some pressure on your stack.

How much would you have left at that point if you fold on the turn? Around $5000 with 100-200 blinds, right? Damn, I do not know what I would have done.

So, do tell... what did he have?

--Jason "I bet he had a suited connectors that included an 8... am I right?" Evans

[mr. synellinden]

Soooo...... exhausted after 11 hours of poker today. 5 in the WSOP and another 6.5 in a tourney at Caesars where I busted out with a straight to a rivered flush near bubble. Anyway, it was fun and I would do it again in a heartbeat. Here is the hand I busted on - not perfectly played, but have discussed it ad nauseum, and I'm confident now it's defensible:

I have 7500 in chips in small blind. Average is nearing 9K. I have a pretty tight table image, but I had just shoved two hands earlier (with really good hand) and didn't have to show. Anyway, I get AK. Blinds are 100-200 with 25 dollar antes. 3 people limp, I bump to $1000 (should have bet more, but that's another discussion and doesn't really play into post flop play). Only button calls me. He is loose and had raised a lot of pots and BARELY had me covered.

Flop is J88. I make a continuation bet of $1700, he calls. I am thinking he doesn't have the jacks here, or he'd bump me. I also think he raises with an 8. He has to be worried about my hand as well as I could have any of the pre flop monsters based on my line so far with a paired board.

Turn is 4 -- blank. I slow down and check. If I bet, I'd pretty much have to bet most of my stack and I wanted to see what he would do. If he bet out, I would have a decision to make. If he checked (based on past behavior), I am pretty sure he's inducing me to make a bet on the river and I'm getting away from the hand. He bets $2000 into a pot that is already over $6K which was a weird bet -- smallish. I went in the tank knowing I had to push or fold. Calling wasn't an option, even though he kinda priced me in, and I was certain he didn't have jacks or an 8.

So I think - what is he calling me with pre-flop. Not a high pocket pair (9s or higher) because he wouldn't flat call 2 limpers ahead of him. Prob not A8 or hand like that. **MAYBE** AJ, but I think he checks behind me there (and raises from button pre flop). If he paired the 4, I think I can get him off of it. The only hands that I don't think I could push him off of (not necessarily the same as what I am actually behind) that he MIGHT have are quad 8s or a set of 4s. But quads are unlikely. So I pretty much narrowed the hands that he would actually call my push with to a set of 4s based on the board and my action so far.

Then add on to that the fact that in a field that large, you have to have it in you to take big pots. If you aren't blessed with a huge stack and don't try to force people out, sometimes even with all of your chips, when you have the worst of it, you will have to be very very lucky to get very far. So I push my last ~5K or so chips representing a big pocket pair (and, honestly, I could have had a hand as bad as 99 with that line). Again, he has me barely covered. If he calls me and loses, he has less than 500 chips...... so he calls and I lost. What do you think he had?

I would guess he had the 8, even though you assumed he would raise the bet on the flop. If he did, that is what I would question in your analysis. Assuming it its a rainbow flop, there is not much that would worry him other than a pair of JJ. He wouldn't be worried about AA, KK or QQ. It would hard for me to put him on the 8 on the flop, but I could put him on KJ or QJ (off or suited), in which case you are still beat. And I don't think he'd raise with either of those hands because he is worried about AJ or any of the higher pairs.

But based on his subsequent betting, I would guess he had 8-9 suited or 8-7 suited or A-8 suited. The $2000 bet wants a call. Since you checked, he is not putting you on a big hand because a big hand wants to take the pot down there, not having likely improved (unless it is J-J). And calling the all-in means he had to have an 8 (I think), so I would go with one of the three hands above.

[A-Tex Devil]

See -- I wouldn't consider him calling me with an 8 or J a "hero" call. That would have been a bad read by me and easy call by him - so more power to him on that. So since pocket 4s were the only thing I was REALLY afraid of, I'll tell you what he had....

He had a pair of 3s. Which is basically what I put him on. (I had 5s or 6s in my head, so 3s was even worse since it wasn't over the 4). If he made the call, I would have 9 outs (Any A, K or J -- and I actually had 12 outs with the 4), which obviously I didn't get.

Look --- I knew he likely had me beat. But I also knew he could be making a move on the turn since I checked. While the guy was loose, I gave him credit for being able to lay down a hand -- and that was probably my mistake.

The reason I pushed is that I still think check raise by me there represents a whole lot of hands than air, including potentially the 8 or even something as bad as AJ (I make big flop bet, he calls, I'm scared he might have an 8). But even a hand like 10-10 or 9-9 (if I really don't believe he has the jack) works with my line and makes sense if I am putting him on AK, AQ, KQ and I don't want an A,K or Q to hit river. The way the guy had been playing, he would have raised the jack on the flop. Maybe even put me all in.

I should have bet 1300-1500 before the flop. Or maybe even more. Out of position, I should have made it clear that I am going to go far with this hand and it will be expensive to call. Other thing would be to check the flop and float the AK, controlling pot size and representing a hand with the check call (or even a very ballsy check raise which I'm not sure I could pull off). That may have been a better line in retrospect, but the C-bet is fine, I think.

But hey -- it was fun. Worth doing!!!

[JasonEvans]

As I said in my post, low pocket pair makes sense for him. He played it aggressive, that's for sure, especially post-flop when he hit nothing. He was pretty much toast to a number of hands you could have. But, it appears he read you well and figured you did not have any of those hands that had him beat.

I hate going out on a bluff, which is essentially what you did. It was a tough one to get away from though. Bummer.

--Jason "it takes some luck... a lot of it... to even make the money" Evans

[JasonEvans]

http://www.turbosng.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/poker-horse1-300x161.jpg

Only 19 players left. Phil Ivey, Doyle Brunson, Daniel Negreanu, Phil Helmuth, and many of the other really big name players are out. But, plenty of major names remain.

Freddy Deeb is 3rd in chips. Gus "The Great Dane" Hansen is up there too. Huck Seed, the most overlooked Main Event champ of the past decade, is in the middle of the pack and well-positioned right now. Todd Brunson, Doyle's son, is on the short stack with just 145k in chips (the average is around 700k, I think).

-Jason "19 remain-- 16 get paid" Evans

[A-Tex Devil]

Yeah. I guess I underestimated my fold equity there :).

I actually was ok going out like that. I still don't hate my move even though other player seemed to read it correctly. I didn't want to go out on cooler, making bad call or calling/pushing marginal hand because of short stack. If I had pushed and he turned over an 8, that would have sucked as well.

I think most people fold to my play with his hand. I read his hand well because he had what I thought I could push him off of, but he either wasn't good enough to fold or was good enough to know exactly what I had. If latter is true, more power to him.

[JasonEvans]

Yeah. I guess I underestimated my fold equity there :).

I actually was ok going out like that. I still don't hate my move even though other player seemed to read it correctly. I didn't want to go out on cooler, making bad call or calling/pushing marginal hand because of short stack. If I had pushed and he turned over an 8, that would have sucked as well.

I think most people fold to my play with his hand. I read his hand well because he had what I thought I could push him off of, but he either wasn't good enough to fold or was good enough to know exactly what I had. If latter is true, more power to him.

Yeah, I will freely admit that I probably fold to your move because the only thing pocket 3s beats is a bluff. And there is a risk of busting even if he catches you in a bluff because another board pair or hitting one of your bluff cards ruins him. It took either massive stones or being a fool for him to call your all-in.

--Jason "you played it pretty well, I think" Evans

[JasonEvans]

The money bubble has burst at the $50k H.O.R.S.E. event. 16 players are left. The big story that is developing is the two chip leaders.

In first place is Vitaly Lunkin, the Russian player who has really burst onto the scene in this year's World Series. He won a bracelet in a $1500 event last year and this year he has been one of the top few players at the Series. He won the opening event, a $40,000 buy-in hold'em, to take home a prize of $1.8 million dollars. 2 weeks later he took 2nd place in the world championship of Pot-Limit Omaha, a $10k buy-in event, to win another $400-grand. Now he is the chip leader with 1.9 million chips in the 2nd biggest event of the year. Whew!

But, the bigger story is 2nd place where The Great Dane sits with just over $1.5 million in chips. Gus Hansen is probably the greatest player to never win a bracelet. He is known for his hyper-aggressive style and willingness to play virtually any two cards as if they are suited A-K. He inspired millions of poker players to be aggressive and has had amazing success on the World Poker Tour. If he could take his first bracelet in this event, that would be huge.

--Jason "I know no one cares but me... but still" Evans

[sue71]

--Jason "I know no one cares but me... but still" Evans

Actually, that's not true. I enjoy reading your analysis of the tourney... please keep 'em coming!

[DevilAlumna]

Any recommendations on where to go to see all player standings at various, other Vegas poker tournaments that are going on right now?

I have a friend who claims to have made it to the final table at Caesar's a day or two ago, and I'd like to see if he's been blowing smoke or not. Tonight he's playing at the Bellagio; says that the rapper, Nelly, is at the table next to him.

[JasonEvans]

Any recommendations on where to go to see all player standings at various, other Vegas poker tournaments that are going on right now?

I have a friend who claims to have made it to the final table at Caesar's a day or two ago, and I'd like to see if he's been blowing smoke or not. Tonight he's playing at the Bellagio; says that the rapper, Nelly, is at the table next to him.

What is your friend's name? Exactly what day did he say he made the final table at Caesar's?

You can view the latest results from Caesar's Mega Stack Series here (http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-tournaments/2655-2009-mega-stack-series).

--Jason "the Bellagio has big tournaments all the time but I am not sure who tracks them" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Remember that talk about Gus Hansen taking his first bracelet at the $50k H.O.R.S.E.?

Uhhhh, nevermind.

The Great Dane busted out in 9th place. The final table for the "pro's championship" are--

1. Erik Sagstrom - 3,675,000.
Erik is from Sweden and is considered one of the best online players in the world. He has never done anything of note in a major live tournament though. This is a major break-through for him.

2. Vitaly Lunkin - 2,490,000
I already mentioned how this Russian has burst on the scene this year as the WSOP.

3. David Bach - 2,345,000
David is a pro, but not a well-known one. He came in 11th at the $50k HORSE event last year and finished 2nd in an Omaha bracelet event a couple years ago.

4. John Hanson - 1,700,000
Hanson is another pro who has had some success but nothing major. His biggest result was finishing 3rd at the 2007 HORSE championship. He won $850,000 for that. There were fewer players this year so a 3rd place would ONLY get you about $550,000.

5. Huck Seed - 1,380,000
Huck won the Main Event World Championship in 1996. Sadly, that is the one year that no one bothered to televise the Main Event (it was a few years before the Moneymaker-fueled poker boom). Huck has won 4 bracelets in his career but none since 2003. He remains one of the less-known Main Event champions. He came in 7th in last year's HORSE championship.

6. Chau Giang - 1,075,000
Chau is probably the best player at the table. He is a regular in the "Big Game" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Game_(poker)) at the Ballagio where he plays 4000/8000 limit games with Doyle Brunson, Phil Ivey, Barry Greenstein and whatever sucker happens to sit down with them. Chau has 30 career cashes at the WSOP, 8th most all-time. He has won 3 bracelets. Last year, he made more than 2 million dollars playing online in his spare time. Not bad, eh?

7. Erik Seidel - 965,000
If there is anyone as good as Chau at the table, it is Erik Seidel. Erik has 8 career bracelets and more than 9 million in career tournament winnings including a WPT title.

8. Ville Wahlbeck - 645,000
You are probably saying, "who?" right now but this Finnish kid has had a fabulous 2009 World Series. He has 5 cashes so far and won a bracelet in the $10k Mixed Event (in which they rotate playing 8 different games). He also has a 2nd in the $10k 2-7 Lowball Draw Championship and a 3rd in the $10k 7-card Stud World Championship. Ville is a well-known player on the European Poker Tour who has really burst on the scene this year. He is currently 2nd in the Player of the Year standings and, with a win in this event, would move ahead of Jeffrey Lisandro for first place. Ville is on the short-stack though and a win would seem to be a bit of a longshot.

--Jason "first place is $1.2 million" Evans

[DevilAlumna]

What is your friend's name? Exactly what day did he say he made the final table at Caesar's?

You can view the latest results from Caesar's Mega Stack Series here (http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-tournaments/2655-2009-mega-stack-series).


http://twitter.com/orangelambo

Guess he was 7th at an event on 6/27, not last table. Still, pretty darned good.

[JasonEvans]

http://twitter.com/orangelambo

Guess he was 7th at an event on 6/27, not last table. Still, pretty darned good.

There are often 8, 9, or even 10 players at the "Final Table."

-Jason

[A-Tex Devil]

Cool. I played the $150 game at Caesars that night, so we were in the same room! Some former "World's Strongest Man" was in my tourney, but not at my table.

I was doing much much better in that tourney. Started with 200, paid 18, I busted out in battle of blinds around 28-29.

I had 4-7o in the big blind. Got called by SB, flop 4d-6d-8c. Check, I bet half pot, get called. 5 on turn, he pushes and has me BARELY covered. Went in tank thinking is it my bad luck that he has 7-9? I decide no, and call, he flips over 7d-3d. So he had straight too plus flush draw. Diamond on river. C'est la vie. Can't blame him there.

[JasonEvans]

Cool. I played the $150 game at Caesars that night, so we were in the same room! Some former "World's Strongest Man" was in my tourney, but not at my table.

I was doing much much better in that tourney. Started with 200, paid 18, I busted out in battle of blinds around 28-29.

I had 4-7o in the big blind. Got called by SB, flop 4d-6d-8c. Check, I bet half pot, get called. 5 on turn, he pushes and has me BARELY covered. Went in tank thinking is it my bad luck that he has 7-9? I decide no, and call, he flips over 7d-3d. So he had straight too plus flush draw. Diamond on river. C'est la vie. Can't blame him there.

Were you at all short stacked? Did you consider pushing on the flop with bottom pair and a belly-buster?

--Jason "after you've played in an event where the buy is a few thousand, the $150 buy-in tournaments seem so tame, don't they?" Evans

[A-Tex Devil]

Were you at all short stacked? Did you consider pushing on the flop with bottom pair and a belly-buster?

--Jason "after you've played in an event where the buy is a few thousand, the $150 buy-in tournaments seem so tame, don't they?" Evans

Actually, we were both middle stacked (about 40K at the time), and in retrospect, I should have given more credence to the 7-9 since he was willing to make that move. He could have had any 2 cards. Blinds were 1K-2K with 300 antes at the time, so he pushed about 35K chips into a 12K pot.

Just a tough spot. I should be more willing to raise preflop from BB with any two cards on occasion when he just calls pre-flop like that, especially with blinds and antes that large. If he comes over top or calls, I get some information and can slow down big time.

[JasonEvans]

6. Chau Giang - 1,075,000
Chau is probably the best player at the table. He is a regular in the "Big Game" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Game_(poker)) at the Ballagio...

7. Erik Seidel - 965,000
If there is anyone as good as Chau at the table, it is Erik Seidel. Erik has 8 career bracelets...


And naturally, the first two guys out at the final table of the $50k event were Chau and Erik.

--Jason "can I pick'em or what?!?!" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Holy !@#^@^!!

The Final Table of the $50k HORSE event is still going on. Play began more than 17 hours ago and they are still playing!! The final 2 are John Hanson and David Bach. Bach has a fairly large chip lead (11.75 million - 2.5 million) right now, but it is still far from over. They've played 400+ hands of poker since they sat down at 2pm PT yesterday. Wow!

--Jason "apparently there are only 3 spectators watching right now-- everyone else is sleeping" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Holy !@#^@^!!

The Final Table of the $50k HORSE event is still going on. Play began more than 17 hours ago and they are still playing!! The final 2 are John Hanson and David Bach. Bach has a fairly large chip lead (11.75 million - 2.5 million) right now, but it is still far from over. They've played 400+ hands of poker since they sat down at 2pm PT yesterday. Wow!

--Jason "apparently there are only 3 spectators watching right now-- everyone else is sleeping" Evans

Not over yet...

Hanson was down to about 1.2 million chips about 30 minutes ago and was all-in with a chance to lose at least once. But he has made a stunning comeback and now has the chip lead 7.5 million chips to 6.8 million. Whew!

Worth noting that the blinds are getting to be very large and will eventually force an end to this from their sheer size. Right now they are on 100,000-200,000 blinds with bets of 200,000/400,000. This obviously means that it is fairly easy for a million chips to change hands in a single hand. The blinds are about to go up in a few minutes to 125k/250k with bets of 250k/500k.

--Jason "wish I was there watching!" Evans

[JasonEvans]

After 20 hours of poker and 492hands played, David Bach took the $50k HORSE event a short time ago.

He won it in a hand of Razz when his 9-7-6-4-A low, beat Jon Hanson's 9-8-6-5-2. It was that close.

Bach took $1.2 million for first place. Hanson only won $789,000 for second. Poor guy ;)

--Jason "starting Friday... The Main Event" Evans

[Trooper]

For those of you following along with the world series events, Pete Rho is a '98 Duke grad and has made over $1MM this year in tournaments already including a 2nd place finish in the $2,000 No-Limit Hold'em event.

He's currently in 14th place in the player of the year standings -- cheer him on!

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-players/135702-peter-rho

[Wheat/"/"/"]

This thread is why I like to hang out with the DBR crowd...this place is always full of surprises!

Wheat/"/"/"/" just returned fron Vegas and cashed in the senior WSOP. Finished #224 out of over 2700+, largest senior event ever. This was my first big tournament and I had a blast. I didn't know we had some poker players around here...especially you Jason. We might have to get a little PokerStars game going.

I'm glad I just happened to check the off topic board tonight, so sorry I'm late to the party. Below is a post I did as a trip report over at 2+2 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/), a great poker site, BTW.......
Vegas Trip Report
I enjoy reading the trip reports here, so just thought I'd share mine...and yea, I know its long and lacking sex, drugs and rock and roll.

It's official...I am now old.

I know this because my my 71 year old dad calls me up a couple of months ago and tells me he is going to stake me in the WSOP. I say no way...you're not going to put up 10 grand for that, and he says, "you're right OLD MAN, I'm putting you in the Senior WSOP for a $1000 since you hit 50".

Whatever pops...I'm in!

It was time to use a few frequent flyer miles...so round trip first class out of Tampa it was and I was off to meet the old man on fathers day.

Dad gets out a few times a year to Vegas and has a time share at the Wyndam Grand Desert, which is close to the strip. They also have a shuttle that runs to all Harrahs casinos, which is nice. I loved it there, especially since I didn't have to pay anything.

He got me playing about 3 years ago, but had never played a big live tourney. I have won 3 of those daily $80 or whatever afternoon tourneys at Harrahs in the past, but there were never more than 50-60 players. And yes, I have the tee shirts to prove it

The senior WSOP event had more than 2700 players this year. When I complimented the floor on how well run I thought it was, he said it was the largest senior event ever.

My plan was to play an ABC style, nothing fancy, pay attention and just pick my spots. The plan worked on day one. I had a nice run of cards and picked up some pretty good pots. And I did steal a couple just from paying attention.
A couple of my better hands...One where I limped from the cut off with Q-10s and flopped a straight, and another when I hit two pair after limping UTG with AJ.

I could have had a really good day one, but lost two nice pots when I got a short stack all in with AK against AQ and the guy hit a Q, and another when my QQ ran into KK behind. Oh well...I still managed a slightly above average stack for the start of day 2.

As for Pops, the story I heard, more than once, was that Dad got railed when his KK was sucked out on at the river for a 4 flush.

Day 2 started card dead for me, but I did make myself be patient. I made it through two levels without hardly playing a hand. Then this came up. There was a lady two seats to my right that was betting position strong every time.
I look down UTG at 10 10 and decided to limp. Another limper, and she raises 4x. Blinds fold, I smooth call and the other limper folds. Dream flop comes 3x,10x,7x giving me top set. I check, she checks. Turn comes Jx and I check again hoping she thinks I have AK or AQ and bets out like she has been doing...on cue she way over plays her AJ and says all in...I snap call and the river is a brick for a monster pot.

Back to being card dead, and missing the flop with some small pairs. At the dinner break I sit right on an average chip stack.

We come back and now under 400 players left. I continue to play tight, even making a couple of good laydowns (I think).

Now down to 285, the cash is 270, and I make my only dumb move of the tournament. Blinds are getting pretty big and I have already decided that if I get took out, I would go down being aggressive. I look down at Q-10s from the button after it had been folded around. Hoping to steal, I raise it up 4x, but the BB calls. Flop comes Qx,9x,5x. I have the BB more than covered and hoped he missed, so I put him all in and...bummer...he had woke up with AA.
My own damn fault, I never should have been in that hand...so now I am crippled with a little over 10x the BB and on the cash bubble.

Then a fortunate thing happened. We only had one really big stack at the table, and he was playing it. Everyone else was around average and I was short. The big stack then accidentally tabled his hand out of turn when he thought everyone else was out of the hand he was in. Ruling was the hand played out face up, and he recieved a time out penalty, I think of two orbits or something like that, which was OK by me.

With the big stack gone where I didn't have to worry about him calling, I used my tight image and moved with two all ins holding KJ and A10 against stacks which I gambled couldn't or wouldn't call and I was able to hold steady at around 10x BB as we went hand for hand.

Then at 271 players, one more to go before cashing in a WSOP event, and hanging on by a thread, its folded around to me on the button and I look down at 5s 2s. The SB and BB each have about 18,000 and I have around 10,000.

I could have laid it down and probably squeaked into the money right there, but what the hell? I needed chips if I was gonna make a come back and the pressure would be on the callers. There were only two moves fold or all you can eat baby! I shoved thinking if nothing else I will have a story for pops about how I put his $1000 buy in on the line with 5s2s!

The small blind hemmed and hawed, before laying down what he said was 55. The BB folded too and I cruised into the money at my first WSOP event.

I busted out at 224th when I got it all in with A5s against QQ and JJ. A Q spiked the flop and I was gone.

The cash out was $2044.00. I paid the old man back his $1000 and offered another $200 which he refused to take. He is a good father, have I mentiond that?

Next night we decide to go to the Flamingo for some 2-4 limit with a couple of friends. We like the dealers there and I see every flop for about two hours before donking off a $100. We had a few drinks and were all talking trash the whole time, just having fun. It was worth the $100 just for entertainment.

Our friends called it a night, and since I had a 6am flight, I decided to just stay up and play 1/2 NL. I got back to paying attention and by 4am I was up $400. Dad stayed up too, but decided to wonder off and play some slots and BJ. He returned in time to take me to the airport with a slot ticket worth $720and said he had only put $30 in.

I left Vegas this time in first class...up $1344.00 and with a priceless memory of a good time with my dad.

[YmoBeThere]

Thanks to all who have posted. Re-kindling my interest in the game after a disastrous trip to Foxwoods over the Memorial Day weekend.

[JasonEvans]

What a great story, Wheat!! Seeing as I know Wheat's real name, I can confirm that he did in fact finish 224th (http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/players/playerprofile.asp?playerID=63382) at the Senior Event this year. Heck, with that cash, Bluff Magazine now rates him as the 9903rd best player in the world right now. As all of us who are unranked will tell you, that's not too shabby!!!

--Jason "jealous.... extremely jealous!" Evans

[YmoBeThere]

What a great story, Wheat!! Seeing as I know Wheat's real name, I can confirm that he did in fact finish 224th (http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/players/playerprofile.asp?playerID=63382) at the Senior Event this year. Heck, with that cash, Bluff Magazine now rates him as the 9903rd best player in the world right now. As all of us who are unranked will tell you, that's not too shabby!!!

--Jason "jealous.... extremely jealous!" Evans

He just moved up to 9,893, without playing a hand!

[Wheat/"/"/"]

A world professional poker ranking...that's pretty funny, I had no idea.

I did call the old man and rub it in after I saw Jason's post:)

We really should get a DBR PokerStars game going...

[OZZIE4DUKE]

A world professional poker ranking...that's pretty funny, I had no idea.

I did call the old man and rub it in after I saw Jason's post:)

We really should get a DBR PokerStars game going...
Congrats, Wheat. :cool:

We can have the poker tourney when we have that fishing trip on your boat weall talked about last year....

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Congrats, Wheat. :cool:

We can have the poker tourney when we have that fishing trip on your boat weall talked about last year....

I'm all in for both!

[Brian12215]

Wheat,
Whats the best way to get money on PS now? I've heard that Visa Pre-paids are the way to go but tried it and it didn't allow it. I sort of gave up. Any help would greatly be appreciated. Congrats on making the money!

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Wheat,
Whats the best way to get money on PS now? I've heard that Visa Pre-paids are the way to go but tried it and it didn't allow it. I sort of gave up. Any help would greatly be appreciated. Congrats on making the money!

I haven't had to put any $ in in a long time, or tried to take any out. last time I did I used Western Union.

I don't play for any serious $ online, just play the micro stakes games....05/.10 limit games just to see lots of flops and practice post flop play.

[JasonEvans]

Some interesting stories (http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/news/article.asp?newsID=2507) from the final opening day of the Main Event.

Can you imagine being at Phil Ivey's table, being told you would be on the ESPN featured table as a result, being told that sponsors would give you thousands of dollars to wear their gear on TV, and then being told... "never mind, but you still get to play with Phil and he will probably take all your chips."

--Jason "some big name pros have some very big stacks coming into day two... but recent history tells us most of them will go down by day three" Evans

[JasonEvans]

I know it is hard to understand, but after 5 days of play, half the field has finished day 2 ;)

Because so many people play in the Main Event, they play the "first day" over 4 days. They take the players from day 1a and 1b and combine them together on day 2a and they take the players from day 1c and 1d and combine them together on day 2b. After that, the field is small enough (less than 2800 players) so they can combine everyone into one field and have only one day 3, day 4... and so on.

Anyway, last night was day 2a. There is a very interesting chip leader right now. His name is Eric Cloutier. He is a former minor-league hockey player and not-very-successful poker pro. I don't think he is related to poker legend TJ Cloutier, but I am not sure.

Anyway, here is why Eric is interesting. It seems he is in a bit of trouble back home in Louisiana. He owns a couple bars back there and he allegedly rigged the cash registers to not report sales properly and cheat the state out of taxes receipts. He was arrested back in February on more than 500 counts of money laudering, fraud, racketeering, and all other kinds of messy stuff.

Why does this matter to poker fans? Well, it seems he has a court date that he cannot miss coming up in a couple days. If he lasts long enough at the World Series Main Event, he will be faced with either leaving the Series or skipping his court date. Yikes!!

Additionally, depending on the conditions of his bail, he may be breaking the law by even attending the World Series. I doubt anyone in Louisiana would have noticed but now that he is the chip leader, the news is bound to get around. (http://news.bluffmagazine.com/wsop-day-1a-chipleader-eric-cloutier-facing-15-felony-charges-5980/)

Interesting little side story, that's all.

Day 2b of the Main Event starts in about an hour. Among the big-name pros who are well-positioned coming into day 2b (the average stack is right at 45,000):

Jeff Lisandro 146950
JC Tran 139975
Josh Arieh 135700
Dutch Boyd 121050
Justin Bonomo 103425
Hevad "Rain" Khan 97800
Kirk Morrison 96000
Thomas "Thunder" Keller 95625
Lee Watkinson 91050
Joe Hachem 84550
Phil Ivey 84025
David Benyamine 81700
Blair Hinkle 80650
Dan Harrington 76025
Antonio Esfandiari 75025
Theo Tran 69100
Cyndy Violette 69000
Chad Brown 67950
Marco Traniello 67000
Lou Diamond Phillips 66650
Kenny Tran 65600
Jennifer Harman 61125
Dave "DevilFish" Ulliott 59000
Howard Lederer 58300
Scotty Nguyen 57075
John Juanda 54875
Amnon Filippi 53000
Jean-Robert Bellande 51950

--Jason "we'll see what happens today... hope my man Phil Ivey can get a really big stack going" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Howard Lederer, Scotty Nguyen, Kathy Liebert, Erik Lindgren, Mike "The Grinder" Mizrahi, and several other big-name pros have busted out today. But, plenty of mega-poker stars are still around and thriving.

The biggest story of the day is probably Phil Helmuth. The Poker Brat started the day with 27000 chips, a well-bellow average stack. Still, ESPN put him at the featured TV table, perhaps hoping to get a classic Helmuth meltdown when he busted out. They were wrong. Phil has been on a major rush and is now up to 136,000 in chips. He is easily among the top 50 or so in the room and is probably talking up a storm about how great he is.

A few other big names...

Josh Arieh 180000
Jeff Lisandro 178000
Antonio Esfandiari 163000
Kenny Tran 160000
David Benyamine 158000
Tony Hachem (Joe's brother) 156000
Hevad "Rain" Khan 153000
Phil Ivey 140000
"Thunder" Keller 123000
JR "Bobby" Bellande (from Survivor) 120000
Kirk Morrison 120000
Jordan Farmer (LA Lakers) 110000
Nate Silver (the baseball and political analyst) 110000
Dennis Philips (finished third last year) 105000

--Jason "where else can a stud athlete like Jordan Farmar and a uber-nerd like Nate Silver compete?" Evans

[wolfpackdevil]

Well I am a huge Phil Ivey fan, I mean HUGE.

And Phil has not done great in the Main Event in recent years. But winning 2 bracelets already this year, and is looking phenomanal so far in this Main Event.

He just won a huge pot, worth about 105,000 in chips. So Ivey is now among the leaders at about 230,000.

This has been a fun main event to follow.

GO IVEY!!!

[JasonEvans]

Just read a fun story that tells you how insane poker is and how hard it is to win one of these tournaments.

At one table a short time ago, there were three players all-in (well, 2 were all-in and one had them covered). One guy had pocket kings, another guy had the other 2 kings, and the third had pocket aces. This means that both players with kings were essentially drawing dead pre-flop... unless they could catch a straight (in which case they would split the pot) or a flush.

Guess what happened? 4 hearts came out (including the ace of hearts) giving the guy with the king of hearts a nut flush. So, instead of busting, that guy now has 120,000 in chips. That is nothing but blind luck.

--Jason "crazy, crazy game!" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Attention Phil Ivey lovers...

At the conclusion of day 2 of the tournament, Phil has 325,000 in chips. This would appear to put him in the top 10-15 in total chips with about 2000 players left in the tournament. That's a biiig chip stack and I am betting it will get a lot bigger.

Phil is a master at playing the big stack and when they sit down to play again, the tournament will soon be approaching the money bubble (the top 648 get paid). You can bet that as players tighten up getting to the money that Phil is going to start pushing his stack around and putting pressure on players. Making the money is this event is meaningless to him. He wants a stack big enough to win the whole thing.

http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/football/bob_blog/philivey.jpg http://www.blindbetpoker.com/img/players/phil-ivey.jpg

By the way, I found out why Phil asked not to play at the ESPN TV table on day one a few days ago. He came over to the Main Event after playing for 48 straight hours in Bobby's Room (the high stakes cash game at the Bellagio). So, he was not in the mood to put on a show for the cameras. He wanted to chill and listen to his ipod and not really think while he cruised through the first day. He said he was mostly playing $2000-$4000 hi-low Omaha in Bobby's room but that they were also trying out a new triple draw game that everyone seemed to like.

Anyway, I am betting that ESPN has Phil on camera a lot now that his stack is so huge. He is going to be a significant player in this thing this year!

--Jason "I'll try to compile some other big name chip counts soon" Evans

[wolfpackdevil]

thank you for the updates Jason.

I think Phil has a great shot this year. But the last time he got really far in the main event, he got a big stack and decided to keep pushing, rather than to hold back and cruise to the final table.

He ended up busting before the final table.

But he's my favorite, and I hope this is the year

[JasonEvans]

I think Phil has a great shot this year. But the last time he got really far in the main event, he got a big stack and decided to keep pushing, rather than to hold back and cruise to the final table.

He ended up busting before the final table.

He busted when that donk Chris Moneymaker hit a mini-miracle on the river (watch it here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qjEUC_lI4g)). Without that suck-out, Ivey is probably winning that tournament and we would never have heard of Chris Moneymaker.

-Jason "if not for an ace on the river-- my, how poker history would have changed!" Evans

[toughbuff1]

He busted when that donk Chris Moneymaker hit a mini-miracle on the river (watch it here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qjEUC_lI4g)). Without that suck-out, Ivey is probably winning that tournament and we would never have heard of Chris Moneymaker.

-Jason "if not for an ace on the river-- my, how poker history would have changed!" Evans

You can call Moneymaker a donk, but he actually played very well that tournament. That was one of the few suck-outs he had (everybody has to have a couple of those to make it that far), and heads-up against Farha he pulled off one of the biggest bluffs in history. Granted, he hasn't performed as well in other tournaments since his big win, but I think you are diminishing his accomplishments by calling him a donk. And if every-man Moneymaker didn't win that tournament, we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation right now.

If you look at the winners of the Main Event since 2002, I'd say Moneymaker ranks above Jerry Yang and Robert Varkonyi, and possibly Jamie Gold (I know Gold has his critics, and I hate his attitude, but he did play that big stack very well).

[JasonEvans]

You can call Moneymaker a donk, but he actually played very well that tournament. That was one of the few suck-outs he had (everybody has to have a couple of those to make it that far), and heads-up against Farha he pulled off one of the biggest bluffs in history. Granted, he hasn't performed as well in other tournaments since his big win, but I think you are diminishing his accomplishments by calling him a donk. And if every-man Moneymaker didn't win that tournament, we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation right now.

It has been pointed out that Phil Ivey owns a pretty large chunk of Full Tilt Poker and, as a result of Moneymaker sending millions of people on-line to play as part of the poker boom, Ivey has probably made terns of millions of dollars via his stake in Full Tily. So, one could argue that losing that hand to Moneymaker may have been the best thing that ever happened to Phil ;)


If you look at the winners of the Main Event since 2002, I'd say Moneymaker ranks above Jerry Yang and Robert Varkonyi, and possibly Jamie Gold (I know Gold has his critics, and I hate his attitude, but he did play that big stack very well).

Yeah, donk is a bit strong. What's more, the play against Ivey was a solid one. Phil disguised his hand very well and there was no way Moneymaker could have put Phil on a full house at that moment.

There is no question in my mind that Moneymaker is better than Yang and Varkyoni. They are both quite poor players for champions. It is hard to say who is better between Chris and Jamie Gold. I think it is telling that neither of them have had all that much success in major tournaments since they won their titles (though Moneymaker made a WPT final table).

I'd rank the past 7 champions thusly--


Raymer (his top 30 the year after his win was really impressive)
Hachem (very close to Raymer, both are excellent players)
Eastgate (still early, but has done well since last year's win)
Gold (big drop from #3 to #4, IMO)
Moneymaker (very few cashes despite playing in a lot of tournaments)
Yang (got insanely lucky to win it all, IMO)
Varkonyi (only one cash since 2002)


I hope a few established pros make deep runs this year-- they are overdue, IMO.

--Jason "Main Event on break until Friday" Evans

[toughbuff1]

I can't argue with that ranking at all. There is a huge gap after Eastgate, who may turn out to be the best of the bunch when its all said and done. I think you have it right, though.

[A-Tex Devil]

It has been pointed out that Phil Ivey owns a pretty large chunk of Full Tilt Poker and, as a result of Moneymaker sending millions of people on-line to play as part of the poker boom, Ivey has probably made terns of millions of dollars via his stake in Full Tily. So, one could argue that losing that hand to Moneymaker may have been the best thing that ever happened to Phil ;)



Yeah, donk is a bit strong. What's more, the play against Ivey was a solid one. Phil disguised his hand very well and there was no way Moneymaker could have put Phil on a full house at that moment.

There is no question in my mind that Moneymaker is better than Yang and Varkyoni. They are both quite poor players for champions. It is hard to say who is better between Chris and Jamie Gold. I think it is telling that neither of them have had all that much success in major tournaments since they won their titles (though Moneymaker made a WPT final table).

I'd rank the past 7 champions thusly--


Raymer (his top 30 the year after his win was really impressive)
Hachem (very close to Raymer, both are excellent players)
Eastgate (still early, but has done well since last year's win)
Gold (big drop from #3 to #4, IMO)
Moneymaker (very few cashes despite playing in a lot of tournaments)
Yang (got insanely lucky to win it all, IMO)
Varkonyi (only one cash since 2002)


I hope a few established pros make deep runs this year-- they are overdue, IMO.

--Jason "Main Event on break until Friday" Evans

Do you ever watch "High Stakes Poker" on the Game Show Network? Jamie Gold is horrible (relatively - he is consistently the worst player at that table by far). He's sucked out a couple of huge pots, but those guys LOVE him in that game. He played the big stack well, but he also kept coming from behind in his run to the final table.

Eastgate has been pretty good on that show. Tom "Durrrr" Dwon has been amazing and unflappable even when he loses a huge pot. If you go on Full tilt poker, he has a challenge going on right now with Gus Hansen. I think it's $500-$1,000 blinds heads up. Haven't caught them while they are actually playing yet.

[Gary]

Yeah, donk is a bit strong...

I'd rank the past 7 champions thusly--


Raymer (his top 30 the year after his win was really impressive)
Hachem (very close to Raymer, both are excellent players)
Eastgate (still early, but has done well since last year's win)
Gold (big drop from #3 to #4, IMO)
Moneymaker (very few cashes despite playing in a lot of tournaments)
Yang (got insanely lucky to win it all, IMO)
Varkonyi (only one cash since 2002)


I hope a few established pros make deep runs this year-- they are overdue, IMO.


I've been watching the WSOP for about 10 years solid now, and have always enjoyed it. I don't play the game, but am fascinated by it and love watching the pros. So I won't presume to pass judgment on the opinions of those of you here who know much more about the game than I do, but I have to say a little (whether I'm right or wrong) about Moneymaker and his run to the title '03. First of all, the guy absolutely got lucky against Phil. No doubt about it. Frankly, I think the guy just got lucky over and over again that entire tournament. His results since demonstrate that to me. Heck, I thought he got very lucky against Sammy. Bluffing is all fine and good, but sometimes even that is reckless and it takes blind luck. To me that's what happened in the finals between Chris and Sammy. Just my two cents on Moneymaker's run. Having said that, I agree with Jason's rankings 100%. I still think Greg is the best of that group, with Hachem right on his heels.

I enjoy most of the big name pro's well enough. The only guys, off the top of my head that I honestly don't care for are Josh Arieh & Mike the mouth because of the way they treated Raymer in '04. And I'm not a big fan of Scotty Nguyen after his behavior in the H.O.R.S.E tournament last year. To their credit, I believe all the guys I mentioned have apologized for their behavior, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth to see that kind of stuff.

I'd love to see some big names make the final table again too, Jason. That's the fun in it for me. Not seeing a bunch of kids or amatuers lucking into the finals with wild play.

Gary

[Udaman]

Jason - I just watched the YouTube tape...and I was expecting this to be something huge. What I saw was Ivey making a huge, huge mistake.

After the flop, he simply has to think the Moneymaker has 3 Queens, or even worse, 3 6's with a boat. Moneymaker was the chip leader at the point, and could be muscling...but he did a limp bet. He was trying to keep Ivey and the other guy in the game, because (as the odds showed) he now had an 82% chance of winning. Ivey didn't have enough chips at that point to make the call - not if he was fighting for the final table...and not knowing that it was almost a certainty that Moneymaker was sitting on three of a kind or better with major odds in his favor.

Ivey got lucky to get the 9 (super lucky). Moneymaker then got lucky to pull the Ace. But Ivey should never have called Moneymaker's bet after the flop. That's why he didn't shake his hands - he was mad at himself for being stupid, then almost getting bailed out, only to get unlucky.

[toughbuff1]

I just watched it myself, and I think Moneymaker has to call there even if he is 100% sure that Ivey has pocket nines. When Ivey reraised all-in, he made it only 120k more to go into a pot that had almost 900k. Moneymaker is getting 7.5 to 1 odds when he is only a 5-1 dog. I don't think anyone necessarily played the hand poorly; it was going to be a cooler for somebody whatever came up on the river.

[YmoBeThere]

Hmmm...the prior two posts make me remember why it's called gambling.

[Gary]

I just watched it myself, and I think Moneymaker has to call there even if he is 100% sure that Ivey has pocket nines. When Ivey reraised all-in, he made it only 120k more to go into a pot that had almost 900k. Moneymaker is getting 7.5 to 1 odds when he is only a 5-1 dog. I don't think anyone necessarily played the hand poorly; it was going to be a cooler for somebody whatever came up on the river.

In all honesty, I hadn't watched the Youtube link that Jason had posted before I gave my response about Moneymaker getting lucky with Phil. I was going more on my general memory about his entire run to the title. I still say the guy was more lucky than good - by a long shot - to win the bracelet. But that hand wasn't, in and of itself, a super lucky one for Moneymaker. Having said that, I doubt he was thinking Phil had pocket nines when he immediately called the all in. His reaction was one of shock when Ivey turned his cards over, so I'm not inclined to give him the credit that toughbuff does. I don't believe he reasoned it out that way. He just, for whatever reason, thought he had the best hand on the Turn. And that was stupid on his part. A guy like Phil isn't going all in unless he's got pocket nines in that spot. So I still say Moneymaker was a little lucky there. Just not as bad as I had initially remembered on that particular hand.

Again, just my two cents.

[Jim3k]

Five-thirty-eight dot com (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/07/third-last-and-final-for-now-poker.html)

[InSpades]

Guy I've known for a few years is up to $2M in chips in the main event. Hope he gets onto TV, would be fun to see him. He is rather out-spoken so he would certainly put on a show. He's a pretty well-known Magic the Gathering player (quite a few well-known poker players have come from that background). He's probably near the chip lead I would guess if he still has all those chips (this was about an hour into day 5). His facebook message was actually "should have around $3m at the end of tomorrow". He's almost there.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Things are getting interesting...here's a place (http://www.pokernews.com/wsop/2009/event-57/day5/page2.htm)for timely updates.

[YmoBeThere]

Dennis Phillips made it through to Day 6...

[JasonEvans]

There are 185 players left out of the 6500 who initially laid down $10k each to play. While the majority of those left are no-names who are seeking to become names, there are still a number of very interesting and established players still out there with an excellent chance of staying alive... including the best poker player on the planet.

Here are some interesting chip counts--

1. Warren Zackey - 4.8 million (he has never cashed in a WSOP event)
4. Tom Schneider - 3.1 million (he won 2 bracelets in 2007 and was WSOP player of the year that year)
9. James Akenhead - 2.6 million (came in 2nd at a bracelet event last year)
33. Fabrice Soulier - 1.6 million (14 career cashes and one of the better French players in the world)
46. Phil Ivey - 1.38 million (best player in the world. Nuf said)
55. Blair Hinkle - 1.28 million (won a bracelet last year at an ESPN televised table. His brother, Grant, is also a well-known pro)
57. Jeff Shulman - 1.26 million (editor of Card Player magazine and a very successful pro)
59. Antonio Esfandiari - 1.22 million ("The Magician" is well-known to anyone who watches poker on TV for his success at WPT and WSOP events)
63. Theo Tran - 1.20 million (has made numerous WSOP final tables and been on ESPN a few times)
80. Dennis Philips - 1.0 million (came in 3rd in the Main Event last year and was a darling of the ESPN cameras)
82. Joe Sebok - 992,000 (well-known pro with a fun personality is often featured by ESPN in its coverage)
85. Peter Eastgate - 927,000 (last year's Main Event champion making a phenomenal follow-up run and cementing his rep as a legit champ)
87. Blair Rodman - 905,000 (pro who has been around since the early 1990s and has something like a dozen final tables at WSOP events in his career)

There are other big-name pros further back in the pack, like JC Tran, David Benyamine, Kenny Tran, and even former Main Event champ Joe Hachem (who has a little more than 500k chips). They will probably need a good day to stay alive but they have enough chips to still be dangerous.

The tournament organizers probably want to get down to about 90 or so players today. The eliminations have been coming a lot quicker than they thought in recent days which has allowed the players to only play 5 or 6 hours a day as opposed to 8 or 10. We'll see if the reckless pace continues today.

--Jason "can't wait to see the coverage this fall on ESPN-- hope we get to see a lot of Ivey's play" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Just saw the table assignments for today. Gonna be interesting to see what ESPN picks as the featured table.

Phil Ivey, David Benyamine, and others
Peter Eastgate, chip leader Warren Zackey, and others
Joe Hachem, JC Tran, Dennis Philips, and others

--Jason "I think I'd go with Hachem and Philips-- Joe has a lot of personality at the table" Evans

[A-Tex Devil]

Is "Elky" Grospelier still alive in the tourney? He has done pretty well this world series and I know he was chip leader after day 3 or 4.

[JasonEvans]

Is "Elky" Grospelier still alive in the tourney? He has done pretty well this world series and I know he was chip leader after day 3 or 4.

He's at 970k in chips. Still alive and still in the running but not nearly the force he was earlier in the tournament. He was at almost 1.5 million in chips around mid-day yesterday, but struggled to the finish.

--Jason "day 6 just began minutes ago" Evans

[wolfpackdevil]

Just a little main event update here late in day 6. There are 85 players remaining here in the tournament.

the chip leader as of 1:45am ET is Darvin Moon at around 7.5 million in chips.

Not far behind is another well known pro, Antonio Esfandiari at 5.6 million. There are still many top pros left in the field.

Phil Ivey has had a pretty good day. He started with just about 1.3 million, and got as high as 3.3 million in chips. But after a tough hand, he is sitting about 20th in chips with 2.8million.

Dennis Phillips, Peter Eastgate and Joe Sebok are still in the field.

update ya later

[YmoBeThere]

Is this Ivey's best run in the main event?

[JasonEvans]

Is this Ivey's best run in the main event?

No, if you look earlier in this thread you will see reference to Ivey busting out in 10th place at the 2003 Main Event when Chris Moneymaker beat him with a huge "suck out" on the river. Of course, Phil was 10th out of 839 players. This year he is in the top 64 (and still going) out of 6400 players.

Unless something crazy happens though, this will likely be Phil's best Main Event run.

--Jason "an update on Phil and other big name pros... in just a moment" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Day 6 saw the field cut all the way down to 64 players. It also saw some of the biggest names in Poker make big, big moves!

The chip leader is a no-name Darvin Moon, with almost 10 million in chips. But no one is really paying much attention to him.

That's because Phil Ivey, widely considered the best player in the world, is in 3rd place in chips with 6.34 million. Phil with chips is hugely dangerous. He is fearless and can stare into your soul. Most of the hands I read about that he was in yesterday were hands where he kept putting pressure on his opponents until they wilted and folded. That is what Phil does. Give him 6.3 million chips in a tournament where an increasing number of players are going to be looking to play it safe and secure a higher payday (64th place is worth $90k, 63rd is worth $108, 54th is $138k, 45th pays $178k) is a formula for him to keep on stealing and forcing the action. Anything can happen, but you have to really watch out for Phil at this point.

Other big news from last night's play...

Former champs Joe Hachem and Peter Eastgate both got eliminated. So did big-name pros Blair Hinkle, Theo Tran, JC Tran, and David Benyamine.

A few other well-know pros are still alive though. In addition to Ivey, Antonio Esfandiari also made a huge move and is now in 6th place with 5.6 million chips. Card Player Magazine editor Jeff Schulman is in 12 place with 4.7 million chips. Frenchman Fabrice Soulier has 3 million, Tom Schneider has 2.8 million, last year's Main Event darling Dennis Phillips has 2.3 million, Blair Rodman has 2.1 mil, and Scott Sittron has 1.2 million (I sat next to him at a table in the 2008 WSOP).

--Jason "gonna be an exciting day!" Evans

[Gary]

Thanks for the updates, Jason. I'll definitely be rooting for Phil at this point. All of the other bigs that I'm really familiar with and enjoy seem to be gone now. So I hope Phil Ivey can make it to the final table and win it all. As with many pros, for him to have that many chips is a formidable thing for all the other players. He knows how to use that stack to his advantage and I can see him bullying people out in short order.

[JasonEvans]

Thanks for the updates, Jason. I'll definitely be rooting for Phil at this point. All of the other bigs that I'm really familiar with and enjoy seem to be gone now. So I hope Phil Ivey can make it to the final table and win it all. As with many pros, for him to have that many chips is a formidable thing for all the other players. He knows how to use that stack to his advantage and I can see him bullying people out in short order.

It is not just a matter of bullying people around, it is the fact that Phil has such a large stack, he can pick him moments to make a move. He can afford to wait a bit, until he gets in the right situation.

A great example was a hand he played yesterday where he saw a cheap flop with J-5 of hearts... a dud of a hand. When 2 hearts fell on the flop, Phil pushed all-in knowing that the other player was not a huge threat because that guy only had about 400k chips left and Phil was above 5-million. The other guy had A-9 (I think) and a 9 had fallen on the flop. Phil was behind, but had the flush draw (which he hit on the river) to take down the pot and eliminate the other player.

Another hand was a case where Phil had pocket Kings and got his chips all-in against a guy with unsuited AK. Phil's kings held up and he won a big one.

With close to 6-million chips and his ability to read the table, Phil is going to be able to pick his spots and even if he picks a couple of them poorly, he is probably not going to be in danger of a big loss because most players simply do not have enough chips to really harm him except in really extreme hands.

I am doing a poor job of explaining it, but my point is that Phil's big stack not only gives him the ability to push players around, but it gives him the ability to be patient. For a player as good as Phil Ivey, that may be even more important than being a bully.

--Jason "now watch... I jinxed him and he will get busted today" Evans

[Gary]

I am doing a poor job of explaining it, but my point is that Phil's big stack not only gives him the ability to push players around, but it gives him the ability to be patient. For a player as good as Phil Ivey, that may be even more important than being a bully.

No, you're not doing a poor job explaining. I completely get that and it's a great point to make. Hopefully Phil will be able to keep reading people right and avoid any bad luck. I think it would be a great thing for ESPN, WSOP, and professional poker in general for Ivey to win. It's time for an established, well known pro to take this particular bracelet again.

Gary

[Clipsfan]

It is not just a matter of bullying people around, it is the fact that Phil has such a large stack, he can pick him moments to make a move. He can afford to wait a bit, until he gets in the right situation.

A great example was a hand he played yesterday where he saw a cheap flop with J-5 of hearts... a dud of a hand. When 2 hearts fell on the flop, Phil pushed all-in knowing that the other player was not a huge threat because that guy only had about 400k chips left and Phil was above 5-million. The other guy had A-9 (I think) and a 9 had fallen on the flop. Phil was behind, but had the flush draw (which he hit on the river) to take down the pot and eliminate the other player.

Another hand was a case where Phil had pocket Kings and got his chips all-in against a guy with unsuited AK. Phil's kings held up and he won a big one.

With close to 6-million chips and his ability to read the table, Phil is going to be able to pick his spots and even if he picks a couple of them poorly, he is probably not going to be in danger of a big loss because most players simply do not have enough chips to really harm him except in really extreme hands.

I am doing a poor job of explaining it, but my point is that Phil's big stack not only gives him the ability to push players around, but it gives him the ability to be patient. For a player as good as Phil Ivey, that may be even more important than being a bully.

--Jason "now watch... I jinxed him and he will get busted today" Evans

To me, the first push with a flush draw is an example of bullying a smaller stack. He had worse odds when he put his money in the pot and was probably hoping for the other guy to fold rather than risk his tournament there.

The instance of the KK is better to illustrate choosing the right time to put his money in the pot. JMHO.

[wolfpackdevil]

Ivey is now 3rd in chips with 6.4 million, and in my mind the favorite by far.

should be a fun day 7

[JasonEvans]

Ivey is now 3rd in chips with 6.4 million, and in my mind the favorite by far.

should be a fun day 7

1) There is tons of poker still to be played. They will play down to 27 players tonight (they typically go to the final 3 tables on the 3rd to last day) and then down to the "November 9" tomorrow. My point is that luck will still play a very large factor in even making the final table. The fact that Phil has such a large stack means he can control the bad luck a little bit and hopefully not let it hurt him too much if it comes along. Still, it is out there and Phil is known for being willing to risk his whole stack on a hunch at any time. If he does it at the wrong time, he could go out much eariler than we expect.

2) There are certainly some other excellent players left in the field and in good chip position. Esfandiari in 6th place and Schulman in 12th place are both truly great players with a ton of success in tournaments. They can hang with Phil for sure and I bet some of the other big pros can as well.

3) Is Phil the favorite at this point? Yes, of course. But I still give him no more than maybe a 15 or 20% chance of winning the whole thing. There is just too much that could go wrong and too many players left alive. I'd give him about a 50% chance of even making the final table.

--Jason "hmmm, here is a bet-- straight up, would you take Phil, Esfandiari, and Schulman or the rest of the field right now?" Evans

[Clipsfan]

--Jason "hmmm, here is a bet-- straight up, would you take Phil, Esfandiari, and Schulman or the rest of the field right now?" Evans

I think you've got to take the rest of the field...even though those three are great players, there is still a lot that can happen and you'd probably deserve odds in your favor if you only took 3 of the remaining players. As you said, luck can make a big difference - look at how some of the recent bracelets have been won.

[pacificrounder]

--Jason "hmmm, here is a bet-- straight up, would you take Phil, Esfandiari, and Schulman or the rest of the field right now?" Evans

Phil Ivey is the best player in the field, has chips, and knows that he might never (even with all his talent) be back to the point he's at now. He's going to give it all he has, and I think that will be enough.

[wolfpackdevil]

I think today is the biggest day for Phil Ivey and Antonio Esfandiari.

The field will most likely be cut down to 27 today, and if they can maintain a top 5 chip count, (like ivey has, and esfandiari is close to,) they should be in good shape for a spot in the final table

[Clipsfan]

Phil Ivey is the best player in the field, has chips, and knows that he might never (even with all his talent) be back to the point he's at now. He's going to give it all he has, and I think that will be enough.

I just read that the odds on Ivey were 5-1 entering today.

[JasonEvans]

Well, they are at 29 players remaining right now and Phil Ivey is a machine.

Phil is 14.9 million in chips, second only to Billy Kopp's 19 million. Jeff Schulman is in 3rd place with 11 million. Antonio Esfandiari is struggling and is in 24th with 2.5 million.

The day is not done, but the odds on Ivey winning it all are getting shorter and shorter. My Ivey, Schulman, Esfandiari vs. the field bet is looking good right now ;)

--Jason "I am dying to see Phil play it for real when ESPN starts showing the series in a couple months" Evans

[wolfpackdevil]

Well we are hours away from starting the final day of the main event before the Final Table in November.

Ivey, Esfandiari, and Schulman all remain in the 27 man field.

Phil Ivey was second in chips before losing about 4 million of his chips late in the night. So he will start the day 4th in chips, with about 11 million.

Schulman is at 10 million, and Esfandiari at 5 million.

the chip leader is Darvin Moon with 20 million chips.

[JasonEvans]

27 players left...

Phil Ivey is at table 2 today with the biggest stack in the room, Darvin Moon with 20-million in chips. Also at Phil's table is pro Jeff Schulman with a little more than 10-million in chips. Phil has 11.3 million. Those two guys are the only ones who can really hurt him as the rest of the table is 2 short-stacks with 1 million, a guy with 4 mil, 2 with 5 mil, and one with 6 mil.

It is far better than being at table 3 that has a 15.9 million chip stack, 3 11 mil chip stacks, 2 9 mil stacks, a 5 mil, a 4 mil, and a short-stacked 1 mil. By the way, Esfandiari is the 4 mil stack at that table. He's going to feel the pressure, I bet. But, if he can get a good hand he may find it easy to chip up from the deep stacks willing to make calls.

Table 1 is the weakest. It has a 10 mil stack, an 8, a 6, two 5s, a 4, a 3, a 2, and a 1 mil short-stack.

Play begins today with blinds of 50k/100k with a 10k ante. The 1 million dollar stacks are in trouble and will likely be all-in quickly. Everybody made an extra $99,000 in real money by making the final 27 (as opposed to busting out 28th) so I bet we will see some looser play early on today. The money is the same from 27th through 19th so if you are in the bottom third of the stacks, you might as well push and hope to get lucky.

Things will, of course, really really tighten up as we get to the final 9. Everyone is going to want to make that final table and come back in November to battle for the bracelet. Also, everyone at the final table makes a million bucks (actually, 1.23 million). 10th place ONLY makes $890k.

--Jason "today makes me nervous for Phil-- he is not afraid to risk his stack and go out much sooner than he should" Evans

[JasonEvans]

There are only 12 players left as I type this... and Phil has had a fairly tough day so far. He started with 11 million chips but after a couple levels of play found himself down close to 5 million. He fought his way back to a little more than 9 million but is now down to about 7. He is in 10th place in chips and there are plenty of players in the upper teens and 20s, including Jeff Schulamn at 22 million.

Phil is going to have some work to do to be one of the November 9. Schulman is in good shape though so we should have at least one well-known tournament pro in there.

The current structure is 120k/240k blinds with a 30k ante. Phil has some time before he is really short-stacked and has to take big risks. So long as he stays north of about 4 million, he can be somewhat patient. It is also worth noting that no one wants to be the guy who allowed Phil to chip back up into a really dangerous position, so perhaps he will get some respect if he stats to make moves. On the other hand, I bet everyone wants him out as soon as possible!

--Jason "fingers crossed for him-- though it is worth noting that he certainly does not need the money first prize would bring" Evans

[JasonEvans]

The Final Table, also known as the "November Nine" because the final table will be played in November are set. Two huge, huge name pros have made it.

Seat 1: Darvin Moon - 58,930,000
Seat 2: James Akenhead - 6,800,000
Seat 3: Phil Ivey - 9,765,000
Seat 4: Kevin Schaffel - 12,390,000
Seat 5: Steven Begleiter - 29,885,000
Seat 6: Eric Buchman - 34,800,000
Seat 7: Joe Cada - 13,215,000
Seat 8: Antoine Saout - 9,500,000
Seat 9: Jeff Shulman - 19,580,000

The blinds and antes are still small enough so that no one is going to feel tremendous pressure from the start. There is a fair amount of experience at this final table. Ivey and Schulman are obviously extremely experienced, but a few of the other players have had tournament success including some final tables.

James Akenhead came in 2nd in a bracelet event last year, winning more than $500k, and is well-known in European poker circles. Antoine Sout is alsoa European who has had some tournament success. Eric Buchman has several WSOP cashes and has made a final table before. Joe Cada claims to be a professional poker player too (though he does not have many tournament results).

This is being called the most talented final table at the Main Event since the poker boom began a little less than a decade ago.

--Jason "can't wait until November... and to see the hands on ESPN starting in a month or so" Evans

[mr. synellinden]

Ivey made it, but he is pretty short-stacked at about 10 million chips. Compare that to the chip leader, Darvin Moon, who has almost 60 million chips and you see the challenge that will face Ivey in four months. But Jerry Yang was among the short stacks two years ago when he won, and at one point early in the final table in 2005 Joe Hachem was the shortest stack, and he came back to win.

Moon had a big stack that ballooned when he went head-to-head with one of the other chip leaders on day 7, Billy Kopp, who had about 20 million chips when he went all in on the turn with 3-5 of diamonds after three diamonds hit on the flop. Unfortunately, Moon had also flopped a flush, with the Q-J of Diamonds and Kopp busted out in 12th place after at one point being the chip leader with about 27 million in chips.

Here is the November 9 and their chip counts:

Darvin Moon - 58,930,000
James Akenhead - 6,800,000
Phil Ivey - 9,765,000
Kevin Schaffel - 12,390,000
Steven Begleiter - 29,885,000
Eric Buchman - 34,800,000
Joe Cada - 13,215,000
Antoine Saout - 9,500,000
Jeff Shulman - 19,580,000

[mr. synellinden]

Sorry for duplicating that post. It hadn't been posted when I started typing mine.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

This is the best place (http://www.pokernews.com/wsop/2009/event-57/)to look back at how the hands were played out to reach the "November Nine".

In particular, check out this mistake by Koop...think he would like to have this hand back and not try to make the cute play here?

From pokerNews........"Billy Kopp opened for 600,000 preflop from early position and was called by the small blind, Darvin Moon. So far, so good.

On a flop of Kd,9d,2d, Moon had first action and checked. He then called when Kopp bet 750,000. Again, nothing out of the ordinary yet.

It was on the turn 2h where everything went haywire. Moon checked again and drew a bet of 2.0 million from Kopp. Moon then check-raised to 6.0 million. Improbably, Kopp moved all in for about 20.0 million total. Even more improbably, Moon called!

Kopp: 5d-3d
Moon: Qd-Jd

Kopp looked like he wanted to cry when he saw Moon's hand. He knew that he was drawing dead and that Moon had him covered. Kopp had more than 80 big blinds to start the hand; with the river he had none. He didn't even wait for the river to come out, barreling out of the secondary feature table area as fast as he could".

[JasonEvans]

I don't know what Kopp was thinking. His re-raise on the turn confuses the heck out of me. Moon has been check-calling every bet and then check-raises on the turn. Did Kopp bother to consider what Moon could have at that point?

With a potential flush on the board, I think gambling that Moon was on a bluff is a very poor gamble. I suppose A-K or K-Q for top pair is posisble, but Moon is making a pretty darn strong play with the check-raise and I would put him on something bigger than top pair at this crucial stage of the tournament.

It is possible that Moon has pocket dueces and he has caught quads. Kopp is toast if that happened. I guess Moon might have A-2 for turned trips, but if he did then Moon is betting with the weakest set possible and betting into a potential flush. Again, I think you have to put him on something more than trip 2s. He could have been slow playing pocket Ks or he could have pocket 9s, both of which would put him on a made full house. In all these cases, Moon has Kopp beat pretty badly. Of course, it was also possible (and it was true) that Moon simply had a better flush than Kopp. The key question here is-- can anyone think of another hand that Moon might have had at that point that would explain the check-calls and especially the check-raise?

See, the way I read this hand is that with the sole exception of turned trip deuces, any other hand Moon might have make Kopp a loser.

The check-raise to Kopp should have brought, at the most, a call. There was no reason at all for Moon to risk another 14 million or so on this hand!! Just lay the sucker down and take your 14 million to the final table. I don't get it.

I'll add one more thing-- when Moon went all-in, the only way he gets called is if he is badly beat. No way top pair calls a 20 million chip all-in at this point. Heck, even the trip 2s get laid down to an all-in bet. The only way you get called is if he has a very strong flush or he has one of the made boats. Why, why, why did Moon risk his chips like this?!?! It was really foolish in my mind.

Other opinions?

--Jason "when players go 'in the tank' for 3+ minutes, I think this is the kind of analysis they are going through" Evans

[snowdenscold]

Did you confuse Moon and Kopp a couple times towards the end of your post there?

[A-Tex Devil]

I don't know what Kopp was thinking. His re-raise on the turn confuses the heck out of me. Moon has been check-calling every bet and then check-raises on the turn. Did Kopp bother to consider what Moon could have at that point?

With a potential flush on the board, I think gambling that Moon was on a bluff is a very poor gamble. I suppose A-K or K-Q for top pair is posisble, but Moon is making a pretty darn strong play with the check-raise and I would put him on something bigger than top pair at this crucial stage of the tournament.

It is possible that Moon has pocket dueces and he has caught quads. Kopp is toast if that happened. I guess Moon might have A-2 for turned trips, but if he did then Moon is betting with the weakest set possible and betting into a potential flush. Again, I think you have to put him on something more than trip 2s. He could have been slow playing pocket Ks or he could have pocket 9s, both of which would put him on a made full house. In all these cases, Moon has Kopp beat pretty badly. Of course, it was also possible (and it was true) that Moon simply had a better flush than Kopp. The key question here is-- can anyone think of another hand that Moon might have had at that point that would explain the check-calls and especially the check-raise?

See, the way I read this hand is that with the sole exception of turned trip deuces, any other hand Moon might have make Kopp a loser.

The check-raise to Kopp should have brought, at the most, a call. There was no reason at all for Moon to risk another 14 million or so on this hand!! Just lay the sucker down and take your 14 million to the final table. I don't get it.

I'll add one more thing-- when Moon went all-in, the only way he gets called is if he is badly beat. No way top pair calls a 20 million chip all-in at this point. Heck, even the trip 2s get laid down to an all-in bet. The only way you get called is if he has a very strong flush or he has one of the made boats. Why, why, why did Moon risk his chips like this?!?! It was really foolish in my mind.

Other opinions?

--Jason "when players go 'in the tank' for 3+ minutes, I think this is the kind of analysis they are going through" Evans

He absolutely should have called on the turn (or folded). The only hands he is beating that play that way are, like you said, Ad2 and **maybe** AdA. But if you have AdA, there you are likely raising or check raising on the flop.

Based on that play, I put him on 3 hands -- KK, 99, better flush, or maybe A2.

With a paired board you HAVE to slow it down there. I **might** even check back on the turn at that point, but it would be tough.

Honestly, I don't ever raise with 3d5d from early position until I'm actually at the final table. No need to make a move like that at that point.

[JasonEvans]

Did you confuse Moon and Kopp a couple times towards the end of your post there?

Ooops, yes I did. I hope folks will understand what I was saying. I was sorta worked up by what a phenomenally bad move Kopp made.

ATex seems to have gotten my point. Like he said, there are really only 3 or 4 hands Moon could possibly have had and A2 is the only one that Kopp beats.

Really bad play... and it cost him at least a couple hundred thousand dollars.

--Jason "wow, can you imagine winning $896k and feeling like a donkey?" Evans

[Wheat/"/"/"]

In my mind, the mistake Koop made was entering the hand with 5d-3d from early position in the first place at that stage of the tournament.

After that, it was destined to be a train wreck when that flop hit.

It's one thing to try and make that play when its important to build chips, but against the big stack, on the bubble with 80bb, Final table spot, TV endorsements, oh...and an extra million dollars?

He didn't take the time to think it all through. He was blinded by the excitement of seeing what he thought was the perfect flop.

More discussion here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/kopps-bust-out-top-three-biggest-ever-me-mistakes-not-534807/)of that hand.

[JasonEvans]

In my mind, the mistake Koop made was entering the hand with 5d-3d from early position in the first place at that stage of the tournament.

Agreed. Diamonds on the flop are always going to put him in a very dangerous position with that weak of a flush.

Maybe he was trying to represent a full house. He might have figured that Moon never calls that huge a bet and risks his tournament without the nuts... and Moon did not have the nuts.

--Jason "low suited connectors... Daniel and Gus would approve" Evans

[YmoBeThere]

Is it November yet?

[JasonEvans]

Is it November yet?

Ha! Have folks been watching on ESPN? Wow, the play from the amatuers has been super aggressive. Hachem was grumbling a bit about it in one of the recent episodes. There are a ton of guys who seem willing to act strong with like suited 9-7 and the such. sure, that works some of the time, but you are likely to get crushed in the long run. It may just be the hands ESPN is showing up.

I am not going to read any reports when the final table plays out so I can watch the ESPN coverage having no idea what is going to happen. I like it better that way. I did that last year and had no idea Eastgate would win. It made it fun ;)

--Jason "Ivey is freaking statue -- he never shows a thing" Evans

[YmoBeThere]

Actually, I went to the WSOP website to check out dates as I may be in Vegas in November. Saw that Negraneu finished second in Europe. Plus, I recently moved away from the New England area and don't have the opportunity to go down to Foxwoods any more.

I may take the same route as you regarding the Final Table.

[Indoor66]

"Ivey is freaking statue -- he never shows a thing"

Maybe it is because he appears to have 0 personality. :p

[micah75]

Bumperoojee

Ivey is an enigma. Not your prototypycal stereotype. Fascinating player though. Can't quite figure him out. No cigar, no sunglasses, no intimidation, no trash-talk, no whine, no high-five when he wins a hand.... he comes across as solid, love his demeanor. Bites on an apple while a huge hand is underway. Doesn't get riled if he loses, doesn't shout out to fans when he wins. His one weakness, if there is one, is that he knows he can win huge in the cash games, thus he may not be so inclined to win the main event, thus possibly getting reckless in race situations. Yet... here he is, in the November 9. Hoping he wins...

Was rooting for Lou Diamond Phillips during his deep run, but he got clipped with KK vs 2 hands with AA, allin. Class act. Loved his quip to the waitress after he won a huge pot "fresh change of underwear please!"

Wow... this WSOP has become a huge spectator event. I love it. One nice thing about it is that even if your favorite player isn't at the final table, you can still enjoy the play by play. Partly because of Lon M and Norman Chad, but also because each player has his or her own unique identity, either as an online pro, or as a video-game pro, or as a trucking pro, or whatever. As Doyle Brunson once said in one of his earlier books, a pro poker player can be successful in any field... law, medicine, accounting, whatever. I believe that.
Most of the top pros have been successful in other areas of life, whether that be computers, math, magic, psychology, chess, or whatever.

[micah75]

Bumperooski

I still like Ivey, even though he's short-stacked at the final table. He could be the first one to bust out, but if he gets hot and builds a stack, look out. I don't know what's happening, as I've purposefully refrained from looking at the
online results, so as to enjoy the ESPN coverage, which has been superb. Well, I guess I did cheat and look at the online results a couple of weeks ago. But just so I had some idea as to who to look out for come November.

Can't say I'm rooting for the other big pro (Schullman, from Card Player), but I do like Moon and some of the online pros. Akenhead looks like a winner, IMHO. Super solid, and a proven European champion.

But hey... I'm a shmuck and a known putz as well as a dufus extroidinaire. I'm not proud of that, but I am happy that I'm alive am I am I, (as Cat Stevens would say.)

[JasonEvans]

I still like Ivey, even though he's short-stacked at the final table. He could be the first one to bust out, but if he gets hot and builds a stack, look out.

I may be wrong, but I think the blinds will start at 120k/240k with a 30k ante. Phil has 9,765,000 in chips, meaning he has about 40 big-blinds left. That is hardly short-stacked. He will be in no rush to get his chips in unless he is pretty darn confident he is ahead in the hand or he knows he can outplay his opponent. He is not even the smallest stack in the room, with 3 million more chips than Akenhead and just slightly more than Antoine Saout.

Sure, his stack looks small compared to the giant 58 million chips sitting in front of Moon, but Phil is not in anything close to a desperate situation.

I think it may work in Phil's advantage that he is not even remotely interested in the increased prize money with each placement. Phil is there for the win and nothing else. I would bet that 2nd thru 9th are all the same for him. Contrast that to some of the other guys at the table to whom the difference in 9th ($1.2 million) and 4th ($2.4 million) could really mean something.

I actually think Schulman is the guy who may have the best shot at knocking off Moon. He is in a far better chip position with 19.5 million and, like Ivey, the money does not mean nearly as much to him as it means to some of the other guys (though he is not Phil Ivey rich, at least I don't think so). Plus, you know Schulman is going to be patient and play smart poker (though I would not be shocked if, at some point, he really shifted gears to take advantage of his solid image-- something Dan Harrington has been doing since he was portrayed as only playing premium hands a few years ago).

--Jason "Is it November yet?!?!" Evans

[micah75]

I may be wrong, but I think the blinds will start at 120k/240k with a 30k ante. Phil has 9,765,000 in chips, meaning he has about 40 big-blinds left. That is hardly short-stacked. He will be in no rush to get his chips in unless he is pretty darn confident he is ahead in the hand or he knows he can outplay his opponent. He is not even the smallest stack in the room, with 3 million more chips than Akenhead and just slightly more than Antoine Saout.

Excellent point, Jason. I guess I was looking at Moon's huge 58 mil stack and thinking Phil was sort of ss, but clearly that is not the case. He's in a position to pick his spots and take his time. You're right, he's in better shape than Akenhead. Forgot to look at the final table stacks.... was mostly going by what I saw transpire on ESPN's coverage. But what a strong field, eh?


I think it may work in Phil's advantage that he is not even remotely interested in the increased prize money with each placement. Phil is there for the win and nothing else. I would bet that 2nd thru 9th are all the same for him. Contrast that to some of the other guys at the table to whom the difference in 9th ($1.2 million) and 4th ($2.4 million) could really mean something.

Yes, for him, winning the bracelet is everything. He doesn't need the prize money... he's probably worth 40 or 50 mil by now. Interestingly, I heard Doyle say recently on a WPT interview that for him, poker is about the money, and he'd rather win the money than the bracelet. But nearly everyone else says the opposite, especially those who have never won a bracelet. I think Ivey has already won about 7 bracelets in overall WSOP play. Sure would love to see him catch up with Helmuth's 11 (or is it 12 now?) Most of Phil's glory bracelets were earned back before the big poker boom.


I actually think Schulman is the guy who may have the best shot at knocking off Moon. He is in a far better chip position with 19.5 million and, like Ivey, the money does not mean nearly as much to him as it means to some of the other guys (though he is not Phil Ivey rich, at least I don't think so). Plus, you know Schulman is going to be patient and play smart poker (though I would not be shocked if, at some point, he really shifted gears to take advantage of his solid image-- something Dan Harrington has been doing since he was portrayed as only playing premium hands a few years ago).

Schulman (sorry I mispelled his name earlier) has really surprised me. Just a really great solid player. But when the blinds go up big time and the table starts getting short-handed, that's when things become really fascinating... to watch and see who is able to shift gears and play their rags allin on the button, etc. Seems like the young guns with tons of internet experience have been easily able to do this over the past few years, and of course, Stu Ungar was a master at this in a bygone era. But it will be extremely interesting to watch how the pros (Phil and Schulman) adjust to this.

Moon has been having an absolutely incredible run thus far, and has practically been apologetic after winning big hand after big hand, explaining that he has been running good since the very beginning. Interesting how he said that even if he wins it all, he will still keep his day job as a chainsaw logger in Maryland. (The home of the "Rajun Cajuns", nyuk nyuk, a recurring joke from Norman Chad throughout this tourney.) I would quit that job in a heartbeat and move on to something else! But he says it's "his life."


--Jason "Is it November yet?!?!" Evans

Can't wait! I wonder if Moon's luck will have run out due to the long layoff. And he has been quite lucky. I've been impressed at how the pros try to get him to talk during a big hand, and he does talk, yet doesn't seem to give away any tells, and will even show his cards if someone lays it down. Most pros just remain silent and rarely turn over the cards.

[wolfpackdevil]

Starting today at around 2:00pm EST, The November Nine will meet again in the Rio for the Final Table.

Darvin Moon is the chip leader with around 54 million in chips. He owns around 30% of the entire chip count for the whole table.

Phil Ivey, (the best player in the world,) has around 9 million, and is sitting around 7th in chips.

It should be a really fun couple days to determine the WSOP final table champion.

[JasonEvans]

Starting today at around 2:00pm EST, The November Nine will meet again in the Rio for the Final Table.

Darvin Moon is the chip leader with around 54 million in chips. He owns around 30% of the entire chip count for the whole table.

Phil Ivey, (the best player in the world,) has around 9 million, and is sitting around 7th in chips.

It should be a really fun couple days to determine the WSOP final table champion.

I plan to watch it play out on ESPN Tuesday night and will chime in with my thoughts after watching.

-Jason "Moon's stack is so huge, he can afford to make mistakes, probably several mistakes, and still win-- that is a huge luxury that the other players simply do not have" Evans

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Spoiler alert! Don't follow the link if you want to wait for the TV.

They are down to the final two.

You can read about it and see it how the hands have played out here. (http://www.pokernews.com/live-reporting/wsop-2009-final-table/november-nine/)

[micah75]

No, I won't give away the names. Just that one of my least favorite players, a notorious young mouth-breather, is in the final 2. Of course, if you enjoyed watching Tom Dwan on PAD, you will surely enjoy this monkeyshine of a non-beaker breather, poker-reeker. I've seen him breathe through his nose on occassion, so I know it's not a noggin problem. He just loves to suck air and let the flies in, sort of like the uni-bomber, who loves to cough on his comrades on both sides, bless his heart. How his lovely gal Jennifer Tilly tolerates that bs is beyond me. But I digress. I don't know who wins this, just sure hope it's not the mouth-breather. Squadoosh on this dastardly muttley. (Yeah, I know I'm being harsh, I just wish folks would learn to breath through their nostrils.)

Lookin' forward to watching the whole shabang unfold on ESPN. Booyah?

[Udaman]

I hate to say it...but the final table really wasn't that good for Poker. It showed how much, truly, luck comes into play.

The final winner (Cada) basically pulled one after another joke card out of his butt to keep on keeping on.

Examples

1) Cada has the small stack, and goes all in with 3,3. He's up against J,J. 82% that he's toast. On the flop he gets a 3. Whatever.

2) He's all in with 2,2 verus Q,Q 82% chance his night is over...he pulls a 2 on the flop. Are you kidding me?

3) In another elimination fight, Cada has A,K versus 8,8. Flop and turn give nothing. Cada has to have an Ace of King to stay alive. 6 outs. 86% chance his night is over. Instead...he gets the K to stay alive.

So, if you add up those three situations, the odds that Cada wins all three are 1 in 250. Lose either and he's not the winner. Lucky, lucky, lucky.

Cada was trying to muscle Moon head to head...only every time Moon reraised, Cada folded. Then he got very fortunate. Moon and he were betting big, and Moon went all in, while Cada just had a pair of 9's, when there were two 10's showing on the board. Cada called.

Moon had 8,7 and on the board was 10,9,5. The turn was another 10 when Moon went all in...and Cada called. Terrible, terrible call there. He had to think that Moon had a higher pair, and maybe a 10. Yet he called anyway. Even still, Moon was sitting there to win if he go a J, 6 or 4. Basically he had 16 outs - decent odds. Cada was fortunate there (not lucky, but fortunate).


The guy in 2nd (Moon) did the same thing.

At one point he's toe to toe with someone, He has A,Q...the other guy has Q,Q. 69% he's going to lose. The flop and turn give nothing. Moon has 3 outs, or a 95% chance of losing, only he flops the Ace to eliminate the other guy.

And the worst...with Ivey all in, Ivey has A,K and Moon has A,Q. 72% chance that Ivey wins. Only Moon pulls a Q on the turn. Game. Set. Match.

None of these had anything to do with skill. Yeah, I haven't seen all the action and I'm sure there were some bluffs here and there that caused people to fold...but mostly from above I see players getting really, really lucky. Especially Cada.

[toughbuff1]

********************SPOILER*********************** ********












































You are right to some extent in that both had situations where they got very lucky. However, you missed a couple of things. The AK vs. 88 hand was pretty much a coin flip when they got the money in, the king just happened to spike on the river, not the flop. And I thought Cada's call with j9 was a great call. He saw how aggressive Moon was playing, and was banking on the fact that Moon didn't have a 10. He only had to fade 7 outs, not 16 (3 jacks and 4 sixes). As far as Moon, while he did get extremely lucky against Begleiter and Ivey, he was never all-in with the worst hand. He was just trying to use his big stack to get people off of pots, and got caught running into big hands a couple of times. Moon has to make the Ivey call, because Ivey had only 8 big blinds left and was pushing with anything decent. The Begleiter hand was a little more questionable, but he still did it knowing that even if Begleiter calls and wins, he still has chips. And Begleiter has been known to 3 bet with some marginal hands (J9 for instance) so I don't think that Moon's all-in was necessarily the worst shove, he just picked the right time to make the wrong move.

Sure, the best hand doesn't hold up every time, and the best players don't always win. But that randomness is part of what makes poker so much fun. There were some bad beats obviously, but there was also some very good play at the final table, and it was enjoyable to follow.

[micah75]

Wow, I was going to wait until tonight to see who won, but couldn't resist peeking at the results above. Really surprised that Cada won. Nothin' agin' the guy, just wish he would close his mouth and breathe properly. But who knows, maybe I was a mouth-breather in my young-gun days. Hopefully, he will outgrow it. He probably needed the gink more than Ivey did. I watched a segment on ESPN a few days ago, where Ivey was travelling around to various casinos by jet, and winning 250K or so rolling dice in an hour's time, just an average day for him, on an day off from cards. Nonetheless, I look forward to watching the final table tonight. Yes, luck does play a huge part of poker. I remember the last 2 times I went to a B&M room playing no limit, I lost huge with KK, going allin vs Ax type of hands, and an A flopping to clip me big time. The last time that happened, 4 people called me preflop, 3 of them with an A, and one of them caught the case A with best kicker, scooping a 1K+ pot. What can ya do. Hard to lay down KK when you know it's the best hand preflop, and you can't really slow-play it.