Kentucky thread (recruiting/scholarship crunch/Cal and ethics)

[Kedsy]

I can see where what I was trying to put out was not put out there correctly. My fault. Blame it on a very long day trying to get my month's books to balance.
What I was trying to say was that if you did indeed help a family member/friend in need, you do so in private. What on earth is gained by leaking this information to the press??? More puzzling is why give these "funds" to the coach? Something doesn't past the "smell test" at least for me. You do something for people in need you do so privately not for publicity or at least that is what I do.

The obvious thing to gain would be exonerating the player, the mom, and the coach, who have all been accused of wrongdoing. If you believe his story, the guy did help them in private, but now he's stepping up because they are all under fire.

I agree that the friend giving the funds to the coach was either a lie or an example of unthinking behavior. My guess is it's the latter, but I suppose you never know in situations like this.

[roywhite]

Thanks Kedsy for reply #1000 to this thread I started.

I feel like such a proud parent. ;)

[Kedsy]

Thanks Kedsy for reply #1000 to this thread I started.

I feel like such a proud parent. ;)

Glad to be of service, Roy.

Although I'm thinking this is one kid you might want to be leaving the house soon...

[PADukeMom]

The obvious thing to gain would be exonerating the player, the mom, and the coach, who have all been accused of wrongdoing. If you believe his story, the guy did help them in private, but now he's stepping up because they are all under fire.

I agree that the friend giving the funds to the coach was either a lie or an example of unthinking behavior. My guess is it's the latter, but I suppose you never know in situations like this.

I have no problem with these people attempting to clairfy the matter however I wonder if it is now part of a cover-up or is it possibly someone just wanting their 15 minutes of fame.
If it were 99.9% of the teams out there I really would be in the "who cares" bunch however this is Cal & everywhere he goes he leave chaos in his wake. That should be his new nickname, Captain Chaos.

[BD80]

I will believe Austin is coming to Duke once he has sat down at a desk & opened up a book. Then I will believe. Until then, speculation is fun but useless however it did use up a good portion on my day today.:D

So Bledsoe and Cousins to UK is still useless speculation?

[jipops]

I don't keep a diary of lost recruits, but we certainly lost recruits to UVa in the 80s and 90s, if not later.

Bryant Stith may be one.

Will Dersch possibly another.

[Duvall]

Bryant Stith may be one.

Will Dersch possibly another.

Willie Dersch was definitely another. Of course, that was 15 years ago, when Duke was coming off a last-place finish and Virginia was coming off a trip to the Elite 8. The present circumstances are somewhat...different.

[Kedsy]

We just recruit different talent.

Since we both seem to be recruiting MP3, I'm not sure about the relevance of your observation (although I suppose it might explain why we haven't been losing recruits to them in recent years).

[dball]

IWhat's the last Burger boy that went and played for the Cavaliers? We just recruit different talent. .

Sylven Landesberg

[oldnavy]

Maybe he meant a one and done type which typically is not what coach K looks for. UK has the advantage because Cal puts guys in the league and Q is really good friends with J Wall. QM visited him multiple times while he was at UK. Anyway I would love to land Miller, he is a great kid and one hell of a player but in my gut I feel like he is a UK lean with Duke second, but things can change.

Could we please quit perpetuating this illusion? Cal has not "put" anyone in the league. Name one Cal coached player that would not have gotten in the league had they gone to play ball at Pitt Community College. Just because he aggressively seeks out talent that is one and done does not mean that he is doing anything to improve that kids chances of getting into the league. It is a fabrication, and a marketing lie that UK and Cal are selling to recruits don’t buy it!!

[oldnavy]

The obvious thing to gain would be exonerating the player, the mom, and the coach, who have all been accused of wrongdoing. If you believe his story, the guy did help them in private, but now he's stepping up because they are all under fire.

I agree that the friend giving the funds to the coach was either a lie or an example of unthinking behavior. My guess is it's the latter, but I suppose you never know in situations like this.

I am typically one of the most skeptical people on the planet. Years of hearing sailors excuses/stories for missing curfew and drug seekers explanations of why they need early refills will do that to you. By the way, druggies are the most clumsy people in the world, they are the only people I know that routinely drop their Vicodin down the sink! Anyway, I can see this story being true. Maybe he did intend to do it in private, but now has to go public to remove suspicion. Why did he give the cash to the coach? Maybe he just did it for the reason he stated, convenience. Not very well thought out, but understandable. Of course it could all be a big lie too, but tracing the money should not be that hard, there has to be banking records or withdrawals and such. And for the record, I believe Cal is very dirty.

[Channing]

i get your point, but I would say he put Chris Douglas Roberts in the league, and he was responsible for moving Tyreke Evans from off guard to point guard (mainly because he had nobody else who could play the point).

[sdotbarbee]

Sylven Landesberg

Since 2002 Duke has had 19 Burger Boys and UVA has had 1. My point is we normally get better talent out of high school, it is not arrogance it is just the truth.

[sdotbarbee]

Could we please quit perpetuating this illusion? Cal has not "put" anyone in the league. Name one Cal coached player that would not have gotten in the league had they gone to play ball at Pitt Community College. Just because he aggressively seeks out talent that is one and done does not mean that he is doing anything to improve that kids chances of getting into the league. It is a fabrication, and a marketing lie that UK and Cal are selling to recruits don’t buy it!!

Whether you like Cal or not, which I do not, he still gets these top recruits and he lets them showcase their talents. It may be a marketing lie, but it is working to get the top players, especially the one and dones.

[soccerstud2210]

Whether you like Cal or not, which I do not, he still gets these top recruits and he lets them showcase their talents. It may be a marketing lie, but it is working to get the top players, especially the one and dones.

because they don't have to play defense and they don't have to go to school. who wouldn't want that??? :) i kid.... kind of

[Duvall]

because they don't have to play defense and they don't have to go to school. who wouldn't want that??? :) i kid.... kind of

That is not fair!

Calipari's teams play defense.

[dchen09]

That is not fair!

Calipari's teams play defense.

Yea, they defend their eligibility.

[UrinalCake]

Yea, they defend their eligibility.

Cha-ching!

[gumbomoop]

So Bledsoe and Cousins to UK is still useless speculation?

Belatedly, congrats on a hilarious post. Not to mention that your witticism is here almost surely based on a substantive point.

[oldnavy]

Whether you like Cal or not, which I do not, he still gets these top recruits and he lets them showcase their talents. It may be a marketing lie, but it is working to get the top players, especially the one and dones.

I know that it works, that is why I pointed it out here. To say that Cal gets kids to the league is naive IMO and feeds into what UK and Cal are trying to do. I just wish folks would quit perpetuating the fallacy by repeating it.

[oldnavy]

i get your point, but I would say he put Chris Douglas Roberts in the league, and he was responsible for moving Tyreke Evans from off guard to point guard (mainly because he had nobody else who could play the point).

Why CDR? Do you believe that CDR would not have played Division I ball if not for Cal? If that is true, and Cal was the only one to give him a shot, then maybe. My point is that, say CDR had gone to Louisville vice Memphis, would he have gotten into the league? I say he would have.

No doubt that Cal plays into the one and done, and he does play a style that showcases talent, but I think it is a tremendous stretch to assume that the kids he has coached would not have gotten into the league had they played for say, Butler or St Joes, or "fill in the blank" non BCS school.

[Osiagledknarf]

How do Cook's and Turner's compare? I know Cook is listed higher than Turner though that rarely means too much.

Turner is more of an athlete then Cook is. He run the floor with very good quickness and also is a good spot up shooter. He would be a very good fit here with guys like Dawkins, Curry, and possibly Rivers in 2011.

Cook is more of your typical point guard. He has great ball handling skills, can shoot and has good court vision. I would not mind him coming to the fold for taking over for Kyrie, but he does not fit our style of offense as well as Turner does.

Turner has his intrest listed as "high" along with UConn and Kansas in the article that came out yestruday: http://duke.scout.com/a.z?s=167&p=2&c=986570&ssf=1&RequestedURL=http%3a%2f%2fduke.scout.com%2f2%2f986 570.html

Also, Scout has added the names Deuco Bello and Adonis Thomas as intrested in Duke.

http://duke.scout.com/a.z?s=167&p=9&cfg=bb&c=4&yr=2011

[Nugget]

It's past humorous to see someone singing Calipari's praises as "he puts people in the league."

Seems to me that Wall, Cousins, Evans, and Rose put themselves in the league -- was there ever any question those players were one and done?

And you can't possibly give Cal credit for putting Amare or Kendrick Perkins in the league since those guys never even played for him.

Who has he "developed" to a degree that it would be reasonable to credit Cal for "putting" the player in the NBA?

Certainly not Orton and his 3 points and 12 minutes per game last year.

Bledsoe? Patrick Patterson? CDR? Dajuan Wagner, who if I recall correctly, never actually made it?

If we have to go all the way back to Marcus Camby, it's not exactly a ringing endorsement.

[SilkyJ]

Bledsoe? Patrick Patterson? CDR? Dajuan Wagner, who if I recall correctly, never actually made it?


Wagner received an NBA paycheck for a few years (i think basically his rookie contract (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dajuan_wagner/career_stats.html)), but no, he never really stuck in the League. If it weren't for the one and done rule instituted but the NBA, half of Calipari's starters from year to year wouldn't be in college. So no, I wouldn't exactly call him a great developer of talent.

That said, he has adjusted his style and approach to fit the new way college basketball is being run, just like Coach K has done with his recruiting. One and done is the new black, and he's seizing the opportunity as best he can. Now whether he's seizing it or buying it, that's another question.

[Osiagledknarf]

How did we get into a dicussion about John Calipari and what players he has put in the NBA? What does this have to do with 2011 Duke recruiting?

[NSDukeFan]

How did we get into a dicussion about John Calipari and what players he has put in the NBA? What does this have to do with 2011 Duke recruiting?

Calipari has had the best recruiting class for two straight years, so some of the top players that Duke recruits he will be as well. There has also been a discussion about the fallacy that "he gets players into the league," that some recruits may state. It's hard to talk too much about recruiting the top players without mentioning Calipari at some point as he looks to have a good chance at the top class for the third consecutive year. Fortunately, they don't give championships for top recruiting classes.

[SCMatt33]

Seth Davis has a new article up on SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/seth_davis/07/27/vegas.coaches/index.html) in which he discusses interviews from Vegas with several major conference coaches about the coming season. Here's the first line from the Calipari interview.

The first contest is more than three months away, but Calipari is already deftly playing the expectations game. "Everybody is trying to say we'll be better than a year ago," he told me. "I'm like, are you out of your mind?"

I've read pretty much every free article about college basketball this summer from a major source, and I can't think of one well known media member who has claimed that UK will be better than last year. In fact, I've seen almost universal agreement that they will be good, but slightly worse than last year. Are there higher than usual expectations in Kentucky locally, or is Calipari just being himself and trying to pull a fast one on everybody?

[Duvall]

Seth Davis has a new article up on SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/seth_davis/07/27/vegas.coaches/index.html) in which he discusses interviews from Vegas with several major conference coaches about the coming season. Here's the first line from the Calipari interview.

The first contest is more than three months away, but Calipari is already deftly playing the expectations game. "Everybody is trying to say we'll be better than a year ago," he told me. "I'm like, are you out of your mind?"

I've read pretty much every free article about college basketball this summer from a major source, and I can't think of one well known media member, who has claimed that UK will be better than last year. In fact, I've seen almost universal agreement that they will be good, but slightly worse than last year. Are there higher than usual expectations in Kentucky locally, or is Calipari just being himself and trying to pull a fast one on everybody?

Both, of course. Kentucky fans aren't known for rationality, and Calipari is trying to play the expectations game, a bit clumsily by his standards.

Not that he needs to bother, since there really isn't anyone on next year's squad that can be mistaken for John Wall.

[gumbomoop]

FYI on Calipari's forthright discussion of his recruiting strategy. [Cal - "forthright" - I know, doesn't sound quite right, but check it out.]

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/13712/john-caliparis-bold-recruiting-gambit

[Kedsy]

FYI on Calipari's forthright discussion of his recruiting strategy. [Cal - "forthright" - I know, doesn't sound quite right, but check it out.]

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/13712/john-caliparis-bold-recruiting-gambit

You know, maybe this is what the kids mean when they talk about Calipari "putting people in the League." Most coaches will tell the kids to stay two or three years and get valuable experience, but Calipari tells them to go for it after one year -- and they still get drafted in the first round. It's what the kids want to hear, and the fact that he says it and then it seems to work reinforces the message.

[Nugget]

You know, maybe this is what the kids mean when they talk about Calipari "putting people in the League." Most coaches will tell the kids to stay two or three years and get valuable experience, but Calipari tells them to go for it after one year -- and they still get drafted in the first round. It's what the kids want to hear, and the fact that he says it and then it seems to work reinforces the message.

A fair point, though I don't think that had actually been posted when I made the original comment -- I was responding to the quote from Adonis Thomas.

This is certainly an interesting recruiting/branding strategy.

And, in all our haste (at least some of us) to bash Calipari, it's also worth remembering that he appears to have been the pioneer of a really decent tactic of explicitly writing into the Letter of Intent a provision that automatically voids the agreement if Calipari leaves the school -- so that the kid can have assurance he would be able to transfer elsewhere without penalty. I don't remember seeing anyone else do that before him.

[El_Diablo]

I don't remember seeing anyone else do that before him.

Maybe because most coaches aren't operating with one foot out the door while listening for the wail of approaching police sirens.

[gumbomoop]

FYI - Dodson won't play for UK in '10-'11.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5430024

Don't know how significant. Maybe addition by subtraction, although I think he was a pretty good 3-bomber.

[CameronBornAndBred]

FYI - Dodson won't play for UK in '10-'11.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5430024

Don't know how significant. Maybe addition by subtraction, although I think he was a pretty good 3-bomber.


Calipari says Dodson could return to the team "if he meets our standards."


Wow...he's one to talk about standards.

[loran16]

Wow...he's one to talk about standards.

Eh, the rumor is it's due to laziness. And if it's Cal and the player is not one of supreme talent as to be irreplacable (Cousins might fit this mold, though he by all reports was not lazy all the time but simply less than fully disciplined), that player won't meet his standards.

[BD80]

Calipari says Dodson could return to the team "if he meets our standards."

Wow...he's one to talk about standards.

Dodson probably spent more time in the classroom than in his agent's office, which clearly isn't up to Cal's standards.

[JohnGalt]

Dodson probably spent more time in the classroom than in his agent's office, which clearly isn't up to Cal's standards.

Yahtzee! Haha, well put.

[DukeBlueNV]

Cal bags (buys) another one...
(juicy stuff about halfway through the article)

http://yourseason.suntimes.com/2566462,080410-anthony-davis-kentucky.article

lots of buzz on twitter with recuiting guys like gary parrish, mike decourcy, etc. going crazy about the paper publishing something they are calling a "rumor". I liked one of Jeff Goodman's tweets: goodmanonfox- You can't just throw out rumors and accusations without any facts. If that were the case, I'd be writing them all day long.

I Guess we will have to wait see how this one plays out...

[COYS]

Cal bags (buys) another one...
(juicy stuff about halfway through the article)

http://yourseason.suntimes.com/2566462,080410-anthony-davis-kentucky.article

lots of buzz on twitter with recuiting guys like gary parrish, mike decourcy, etc. going crazy about the paper publishing something they are calling a "rumor". I liked one of Jeff Goodman's tweets: goodmanonfox- You can't just throw out rumors and accusations without any facts. If that were the case, I'd be writing them all day long.

I Guess we will have to wait see how this one plays out...

To be fair to Davis and his family, i agree that any innuendo regarding the monetary value supposedly placed on his commitment is in poor taste without any supporting facts, whatsoever. While I am not shocked by virtually any rumors regarding Calipari and Kentucky, I am of the mind that the school and the coaching staff should be attacked for any violations such as this more than the kid, himself. Of course, it is such a murky world when parents are involved and have ulterior motives that go beyond finding the best school for their children, but I'm still inclined to attack the schools that play along with such games, especially before any actual proof surfaces.

[UrinalCake]

Yeah, Kentucky has a right to be upset. Falsely accusing them of committing violations is something that unfairly detracts from all of the times they legitimately commit violations :D

[BD80]

Cal bags (buys) another one...
(juicy stuff about halfway through the article)

http://yourseason.suntimes.com/2566462,080410-anthony-davis-kentucky.article

lots of buzz on twitter with recuiting guys like gary parrish, mike decourcy, etc. going crazy about the paper publishing something they are calling a "rumor". I liked one of Jeff Goodman's tweets: goodmanonfox- You can't just throw out rumors and accusations without any facts. If that were the case, I'd be writing them all day long.

I Guess we will have to wait see how this one plays out...

I would have enjoyed being in the UK lawyer's office when the issue was discussed:


UK: "All we have to prove is that the paper, at the time they wrote the story, had NO HARD FACTS that we will be paying the kid's family, right?"

Lawyer: "Well, they can say they had a source and can then try to prove through discovery that the allegation was true"

[Sound of crickets in background]

Frankly, if I ran the paper, I would lawyer up and dare UK to sue. Discovery would be a reporter's dream come true. There would be a great fight as to whether there would be a protective order prohibiting the paper from publishing what it "discovers," UK being a public university and the coaching staff being state employees. The Davis family would be under a microscope - and lots of other programs might sweat a bit.

The NCAA would be VERY interested in such a case.

I doubt UK takes this very far.

[sagegrouse]

I would have enjoyed being in the UK lawyer's office when the issue was discussed:


UK: "All we have to prove is that the paper, at the time they wrote the story, had NO HARD FACTS that we will be paying the kid's family, right?"

Lawyer: "Well, they can say they had a source and can then try to prove through discovery that the allegation was true"

[Sound of crickets in background]

Frankly, if I ran the paper, I would lawyer up and dare UK to sue. Discovery would be a reporter's dream come true. There would be a great fight as to whether there would be a protective order prohibiting the paper from publishing what it "discovers," UK being a public university and the coaching staff being state employees. The Davis family would be under a microscope - and lots of other programs might sweat a bit.

The NCAA would be VERY interested in such a case.

I doubt UK takes this very far.

As a non-lawyer who has worked some with lawyers, IMHO (where the H is usually silent) the main uses of lawyers are to (a) keep you out of trouble, (b) occasionally prosecute or defend through legal actions, and (c) scare the wits out of some adversary through threatening letters.

I vote for (c).

sagegrouse

[Chicago 1995]

As a non-lawyer who has worked some with lawyers, IMHO (where the H is usually silent) the main uses of lawyers are to (a) keep you out of trouble, (b) occasionally prosecute or defend through legal actions, and (c) scare the wits out of some adversary through threatening letters.

I vote for (c).

sagegrouse

Given that rather than crawl in a hole and hide, the Sun Times printed a stronger version of the story today, mentioning sources at three different schools that had been approached by Davis for a payout, Kentucky's attempt to scare the Sun Times kind of blew up in its face.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/preps/2571594,CST-SPT-cruit06.article

I'm sure Parrish, Doyle and the like will be retracting all the nasty grams they Tweeted yesterday. :rolleyes

[Vincetaylor]

Given that rather than crawl in a hole and hide, the Sun Times printed a stronger version of the story today, mentioning sources at three different schools that had been approached by Davis for a payout, Kentucky's attempt to scare the Sun Times kind of blew up in its face.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/preps/2571594,CST-SPT-cruit06.article

I'm sure Parrish, Doyle and the like will be retracting all the nasty grams they Tweeted yesterday. :rolleyes

I think it's obvious what the first thing Anthony Davis needs to do is. Get rid of the unibrow. That's one of the worst I've seen.

[Chicago 1995]

I think it's obvious what the first thing Anthony Davis needs to do is. Get rid of the unibrow. That's one of the worst I've seen.

That's why he needs the coin.

Hair removal of that magnitude is not cheap.

[roywhite]

Given that rather than crawl in a hole and hide, the Sun Times printed a stronger version of the story today, mentioning sources at three different schools that had been approached by Davis for a payout, Kentucky's attempt to scare the Sun Times kind of blew up in its face.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/preps/2571594,CST-SPT-cruit06.article

I'm sure Parrish, Doyle and the like will be retracting all the nasty grams they Tweeted yesterday. :rolleyes

Well, this is interesting, indeed.

Hard to see that this just quietly goes away at this point...the family and/or the schools involved have got a problem, it appears.

I wasn't sure why Duke was not more of a factor in recruiting this kid; I think I understand a little better now.

[monkey]

That's why he needs the coin.

Hair removal of that magnitude is not cheap.

Maybe it's an homage to Mexican painter Frida Kahlo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frida_Kahlo)?

[sagegrouse]

Well, this is interesting, indeed.

Hard to see that this just quietly goes away at this point...the family and/or the schools involved have got a problem, it appears.

I wasn't sure why Duke was not more of a factor in recruiting this kid; I think I understand a little better now.

So, what does the NCAA do? Interview the Davises, if they'll talk; get the goods from the coaches at the other schools where his father apparently requested money; ask Kentucky what they know; and then ban the kid from college?

Or, is that too logical?

sagegrouse

[monkey]

So, what does the NCAA do? Interview the Davises, if they'll talk; get the goods from the coaches at the other schools where his father apparently requested money; ask Kentucky what they know; and then ban the kid from college?

Or, is that too logical?

sagegrouse

Makes sense to me - but does Davis get to keep the money? He performed his part of the bargain. Seems to me Kentucky (or related boosters) should be held to their performance under the contract, notwithstanding frustration of purpose.

[DukeBlueNV]

Well, this is interesting, indeed.

Hard to see that this just quietly goes away at this point...the family and/or the schools involved have got a problem, it appears.

I wasn't sure why Duke was not more of a factor in recruiting this kid; I think I understand a little better now.

I was also wondering why Ole Roy and the Heels showed intrested and then backed-off so quickly... Maybe UNC was trying to low-ball 'em... HAHA... but seriously if this is true then good for Roy and K for knowing to back off this kid.

[BD80]

Given that rather than crawl in a hole and hide, the Sun Times printed a stronger version of the story today, mentioning sources at three different schools that had been approached by Davis for a payout, Kentucky's attempt to scare the Sun Times kind of blew up in its face.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/preps/2571594,CST-SPT-cruit06.article

I'm sure Parrish, Doyle and the like will be retracting all the nasty grams they Tweeted yesterday. :rolleyes

At least Parrish is following up:

http://gary-parrish.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/23700493?tag=comBlogEntryListCnt;entry23700493

The good parts:


It could be worth noting that Kentucky only denied "any member of its Athletic Department has offered or paid money or other illegal benefits to the student-athlete or his family," and made no mention of boosters or agents. That means although the den[ial] is lengthy and aggressively worded, it doesn't necessarily deny what the Sun-Times reported Friday, that Davis' father "negotiated a deal that promised $200,000 from someone who wanted Davis to commit to Kentucky." ...

Kentucky concluded its statement as follows: "The University of Kentucky has put Mr. O’Brien and the Chicago Sun-Times on notice that these published statements are false and defamatory. The University fully supports any action the student-athlete and his family may take against Mr. O’Brien and the Chicago Sun-Times. The University is also evaluating all available rights and remedies it may have against Mr. O’Brien and the Chicago Sun-Times in responding to these false and defamatory statements."

I'm gonna huff, and I'm gonna puff ...

OMG is UK passing bricks right now. The LAST thing they want is litigation with discovery. I imagine the case could be removed to federal court. Hell, if I'm the Sun-Times, I file a dec judgment action in the federal court in Chicago and sell lots and lots of papers (or e hits or whatever).

[Newton_14]

So, what does the NCAA do? Interview the Davises, if they'll talk; get the goods from the coaches at the other schools where his father apparently requested money; ask Kentucky what they know; and then ban the kid from college?

Or, is that too logical?

sagegrouse

That would be my solution. If this story has merit and it was the family seeking the illegal payment, the correct thing to do would be to declare the kid ineligible and ban him from playing at any NCAA school. Unless there is a money trail that can help determine who allegedly made or allegedly was intending to make the payment, it would be hard to take any action against UK.

Interesting that in the Parrish article BD80 linked, UK only denies that anyone in the Athletic Dept made a payment. This is going to be an interesting story to follow...

[WiJoe]

So, what does the NCAA do? Interview the Davises, if they'll talk; get the goods from the coaches at the other schools where his father apparently requested money; ask Kentucky what they know; and then ban the kid from college?

Ban the kid? No chance. C'mon.

[JasonEvans]

Yeah, Kentucky has a right to be upset. Falsely accusing them of committing violations is something that unfairly detracts from all of the times they legitimately commit violations :D

Ok, I snarfed milk out my nose when I read this post. Fine stuff, sir!!!

I do want to say that the Sun-Times handling of this story has been somewhere between shoddy and libelous. The first article on the alleged payoff to Davis burried the payoff deep in the story. The paper said Davis was getting a payoff, but did not lead with that fact, instead waiting until the 9th paragraph of the story to make that allegation. Ummm, that's strange. They also initially made the accusation based on 1 source and what they called a "rumor."

Then, just when it seemed the article was total bunk and the paper was really in bad shape, the next article comes out which cites 3 sources at 3 different schools talking about Davis' father demanding payments. Now that article seems a lot better sourced and a lot more solid of a story.

So, which is the case-- is this poor journalism and a case of a kid and a school being wronged or is this a journalist shining a light into a corner that would rather remain in the dark?

Hmmmmm. I'd be eager for the NCAA to find the truth, but I doubt that organization has the means.

By the way, it is worth noting that Davis has not announced his school choice yet (though he says he has made his choice and everyone assumes it to be Kentucky). Presumably, if a $125-$200k deal was in place to secure his committment, the money has not changed hands yet because the committment has not happened yet. Well, it is awful hard to see how the payoff could happen now that such a glaring spotlight has been put upon this situation.

--Jason "I wish the reporter at the Sun-Times had waited until after the payoff had happened... that would have been juicy!" Evans

[BoozerWasFouled]

I do want to say that the Sun-Times handling of this story has been somewhere between shoddy and libelous. The first article on the alleged payoff to Davis burried the payoff deep in the story.

You have no understanding of libel laws. Libel only pertains to the truth or falsity of a claim. It has nothing to do with with which paragraph of a story contains the accusation. Or whether the story was well-written. Or whether the story mentions its sources. Only matters if its true or false. You could write it upside down, in magic marker, with every third word misspelled, and it wouldn't be libel if it's true.

[dchen09]

You have no understanding of libel laws. Libel only pertains to the truth or falsity of a claim. It has nothing to do with with which paragraph of a story contains the accusation. Or whether the story was well-written. Or whether the story mentions its sources. Only matters if its true or false. You could write it upside down, in magic marker, with every third word misspelled, and it wouldn't be libel if it's true.

I think JasonEvans' point is that due to the poor way the article was written, it doesn't give the claim alot of credibility. Thus the article seems libelous.

For that matter, what are the libel laws with rumors. If you publish a widespread rumor which isn't true, are you guilty of libel? Even if the rumor is widely accepted as true?

[JasonEvans]

You have no understanding of libel laws. Libel only pertains to the truth or falsity of a claim. It has nothing to do with with which paragraph of a story contains the accusation. Or whether the story was well-written. Or whether the story mentions its sources. Only matters if its true or false. You could write it upside down, in magic marker, with every third word misspelled, and it wouldn't be libel if it's true.

I am aware of how libel works. I was merely pointing out the very strange fact that the original story burried (in the 9th paragraph) a very significant and potentially scandalous accusation. It deos not make sense for a story to be written that way. If you are going to accuse a player and a school or arranging a $200k payoff YOU LEAD WITH IT, you don't put it in the 9th graph of the story.

I agree that the fact of whether the story is libelous or not has no bearing on the placement of the questionable accusation.

Lemme close with this-- after the first story, the one that burried the rumor in graph #9 and seemed poorly sourced, I thought the Sun-Times story was bunk. After the follow-up, which cites 3 sources, I am a lot more confident in the veracity of the story.

--Jason "like I said, because it seems no money has changed hands, we will likely never know the truth here-- ahhh well" Evans

[sagegrouse]

You have no understanding of libel laws. Libel only pertains to the truth or falsity of a claim. It has nothing to do with with which paragraph of a story contains the accusation. Or whether the story was well-written. Or whether the story mentions its sources. Only matters if its true or false. You could write it upside down, in magic marker, with every third word misspelled, and it wouldn't be libel if it's true.

Oooohhh!!! I think Jason used the term "libelous" in the sense of "maliciously defamatory," a usage that does not address the truth of the communication. OTOH and independent of the quote, I suppose it is barely possible that a former senior executive producer at CNN hasn't learned about libel laws, but I doubt it:


"Producer Pilar Tejerina is on the run. It's 3:25 p.m., and she's got to get a live shot from Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre on the air for CNN Headline News in five minutes....
...
"Pilar lets supervising producer Ginger Blackstone in Atlanta know that the sound bite from Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is ready and will be rolled (played back to air) from the Washington bureau during a live report from McIntyre.

"Now she heads to control room C, briefs the D.C. director John Davis and gets on the phone with Jason Evans, the senior executive producer in Atlanta."

Which leaves only one question: why am I defending the guy who posts more than anyone else on this Board?

sagegrouse

[BD80]

Oooohhh!!! I think Jason used the term "libelous" in the sense of "maliciously defamatory," a usage that does not address the truth of the communication. ... I suppose it is barely possible that a former senior executive producer at CNN hasn't learned about libel laws, but I doubt it: ...

sagegrouse

I thought libel law was easy. Just list all the ingredients accurately. ;)

i.e. The majority of my posts are 100% pure blarney.

As for "maliciously defamatory," wouldn't the plaintiff have to prove actual injury to its reputation?

UK (or Calipari) actually trying to prove that it has a reputation that could be injured?
I don't care who you are, that there is FUNNY!

[Duvall]

Davis commits to Kentucky (http://scouthoops.scout.com/2/992239.html).

Looks like money well spent.

[devildeac]

Oooohhh!!! I think Jason used the term "libelous" in the sense of "maliciously defamatory," a usage that does not address the truth of the communication. OTOH and independent of the quote, I suppose it is barely possible that a former senior executive producer at CNN hasn't learned about libel laws, but I doubt it:


"Producer Pilar Tejerina is on the run. It's 3:25 p.m., and she's got to get a live shot from Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre on the air for CNN Headline News in five minutes....
...
"Pilar lets supervising producer Ginger Blackstone in Atlanta know that the sound bite from Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is ready and will be rolled (played back to air) from the Washington bureau during a live report from McIntyre.

"Now she heads to control room C, briefs the D.C. director John Davis and gets on the phone with Jason Evans, the senior executive producer in Atlanta."

Which leaves only one question: why am I defending the guy who posts more than anyone else on this Board?

sagegrouse
Harumph!

[BD80]

Davis commits to Kentucky (http://scouthoops.scout.com/2/992239.html).

Looks like money well spent.

I wonder if the libel case will be combined with the breach of contract case?

What? Nobody followed up on their threat to take that slanderous excuse for a newspaper to court?

What about all those LIES?

huh? they weren't actually lies? there may have been some truth? actually they were completely true?

never mind