Fringe discussion

[JasonEvans]

For those of you interested in this much-hyped new show, the pilot airs tonight.

Here is an early review (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/09/arts/television/09frin.html?th&emc=th) from the NYTimes. It is fairly encouraging.

--Jason "I look forward to the discussion tomorrow, after we have seen the show" Evans

[CathyCA]

The people melted to death on a plane? That's too scary for me. I won't be watching. I like for my airplane experiences to be warm and fuzzy. I don't need this scary scenario entering my mind.

[edensquad]

There is also a nice review in this a.m.'s USA Today (don't know how to link, sorry).

[Jumbo]

There is also a nice review in this a.m.'s USA Today (don't know how to link, sorry).

You can do it two ways. You can always post the URL. Or, you can highlight a word, click on the icon tha tlooks like a globe, and copy and paste the URL there.

[killerleft]

Thanks for the link, Jason. I'm always ready to try a new sci-fi show.

[ohioguy2]

The people melted to death on a plane? That's too scary for me. I won't be watching. I like for my airplane experiences to be warm and fuzzy. I don't need this scary scenario entering my mind.

Sounds like their experience was very warm. I am recording this to watch later. Sounds like my kind of show. I am also recording BBC America's Primeval--really like those Brit's sense of humor.

[JasonEvans]

Does Chris Carter get royalties on this because it sure as heck felt like an XFiles knock-off. It was XFiles minus the aliens but with a much bigger special effects budget.

The whole thing felt like they were trying too hard. Even the graphics identifying the cities they were in were screaming, "look at how cool I am!!"

It needs work. There is something there, but it really needs some work.

--Jason "much more in the AM" Evans

[2535Miles]

The whole thing felt like they were trying too hard. Even the graphics identifying the cities they were in were screaming, "look at how cool I am!!"

It needs work. There is something there, but it really needs some work.
I concur.


--Jason "much more in the AM" Evans
Excellent. Let's make some LSD.

[freshmanjs]

Does Chris Carter get royalties on this because it sure as heck felt like an XFiles knock-off. It was XFiles minus the aliens but with a much bigger special effects budget.

The whole thing felt like they were trying too hard. Even the graphics identifying the cities they were in were screaming, "look at how cool I am!!"

It needs work. There is something there, but it really needs some work.

--Jason "much more in the AM" Evans

I liked it. I agree with your take, but i think i'm more positive. it showed a lot of potential. i am reminded of the early days of sd-6 recruiting. i like that we aren't quite sure who's on what side. the twist was good.

it was a bit slow in the middle, and maybe somewhat overstyled.

but, i'll keep watching.

[Jfrosh]

I think I'll watch again. Agree with everyone, very x-files like. Also slow in the middle, I actually fell asleep but thanks to DVR caught what I missed this morning.

[BlueDevilBaby]

I thought the exact same about X-files, but I could not really pay attention as my visiting parents talked throughout the entire program. I finally quit watching. Will try again after they leave.

[Jmac1970]

My wife and I liked it as well. It did slow down a bit in spots but I became quite fond of the crazy old scientist. I think that is has the potential to be interesting as the season progresses.

We both noted that in several places right before commercial, the music was almost identical to Lost when something dramatic happens. I suppose that is the influence of J.J.

[2535Miles]

We both noted that in several places right before commercial, the music was almost identical to Lost when something dramatic happens. I suppose that is the influence of J.J.
Very "Losty" indeed. I shut my eyes at one point and couldn't tell the difference.

Seriously, I thought this was a decent pilot. It setup a lot of different avenues to explore, tried to get viewers emotionally involved with a love interest, and also raised some questions about the main characters' past. I agree with everyone here that there seems to be some great potential, now we just have to see how it adds up.

A few points (SPOILER):
- I could do without the scene on the couch, eating food with a cow.
- I'm not sure if Mark Valley will have more of a role, but I was pleased with his performance so far. Perhaps making the transition from lawyer to FBI agent isn't such a stretch.

[pfrduke]

SPOILER ALERT, SPOILER ALERT!

I agree that it has potential, but I'm a little less sanguine on its chances than some of the other folks here.

Some pretty preposterous things happened last night, and I'm not just talking about see-through skin. Anybody else curious as to how a (mid-level) government agent commandeered the resources to do all of the following in about 48-72 hours: (1) fly to/from Baghdad; (2) gather millions of dollars of equipment, chemicals, materials, etc in the basement of a university; (3) get a mentally unstable person within shouting distance of said dangerous chemicals and sharp implements, etc. Weird sci-fi stuff I can suspend disbelief on. Limitless government resources and efficiency that violates all laws of space and time (especially when the government is involved) is a little too much to be believed.

[freshmanjs]

SPOILER ALERT, SPOILER ALERT!

I agree that it has potential, but I'm a little less sanguine on its chances than some of the other folks here.

Some pretty preposterous things happened last night, and I'm not just talking about see-through skin. Anybody else curious as to how a (mid-level) government agent commandeered the resources to do all of the following in about 48-72 hours: (1) fly to/from Baghdad; (2) gather millions of dollars of equipment, chemicals, materials, etc in the basement of a university; (3) get a mentally unstable person within shouting distance of said dangerous chemicals and sharp implements, etc. Weird sci-fi stuff I can suspend disbelief on. Limitless government resources and efficiency that violates all laws of space and time (especially when the government is involved) is a little too much to be believed.

were you a fan of alias? that show was completely ridiculous at every turn, but from midway through season 1 til the end of season 2 was absolutely excellent TV.

[JasonEvans]

As far as I am concerned, spoilers are a given at this point in the thread.

I agree that some of the stuff the FBI lady did was absurd.

But, my favorite "do they think we are idiots?" moment was the fact that Harvard had just thrown sheets over all the equipment in the basement but it was otherwise fully in tact at when they came in 17 years later. I was amused too at the fact that the 17 year old equipment appeared to largely be very modern computers -- and the old scientist who had been locked up for 17 years was perfectly at home using very modern computers. It is worth noting that when this guy was locked up it was 1991 and no one had even heard of the internet. Cell phones were still the size of a brief case. There was no such thing as a DVD. The pity is that I think that disconnect could have been fun an funny to exploit over time, but they brushed it off and made him fully competent and capable faar too quickly.

Mark Valley is dead and I don't think he will be back on the show. My wife commented after he died that they had 6 hours to talk to him after he was dead. Only moments later Blair Brown and her iRobot mechanical arm were ordering him to be questioned because he was only 5 hours dead.

Again, my biggest complaint was they tried too hard. They threw a ton of strange stuff at us to see what would stick. The LSD, Blair Brown's arm (amputated because of her cancer?!?!?), Mark Valley being a bad guy, using twins to make us think the guy on the plane was still alive (they should have made his look more distinctive, so we could really tell it was the same person) -- it was all just a bit too much.

I am surprised because JJ did such a great job developing the characters and the story in Lost and not getting hung up on the supernatural stuff too quickly. I feel like he is doing the exact opposite here. My wife, who is not a fan of sci-fi stories like this, was very put off by last night's Fringe and is not sure she wants to keep on watching. If they had eased us into all of it, the show could have had a wider audience, I think.

My bet is that this thing struggles a bit and is never anywhere near the hit that Lost is.

-Jason "gotta check last night's numbers now" Evans

[JasonEvans]

As I suspected, the ratings for Fringe were not great. You can read my comments on them in this post (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?p=190780#post190780) in another thread.

-Jason "the big question is how it does next week-- it is easy to do ok in week one" Evans

[pfrduke]

were you a fan of alias? that show was completely ridiculous at every turn, but from midway through season 1 til the end of season 2 was absolutely excellent TV.

I've actually never seen a single episode of Alias. But I think Jason's point regarding easing us in is right on. For example, Lost has plenty of things that defy the normal operation of space and time. But it spent so much time introducing us to the characters and the universe before taking huge leaps with things that cannot really be done (minus, maybe, the smoke monster) that it was less of a shock to the system. In Fringe, by contrast, we knew nothing about the universe of the show, and our introduction to it was this government agent and a dude in a mental hospital reconstructing what looked like 8 figures worth of a combination of 17-year-old and new state-of-the-art equipment in about 12-24 hours. I think it was just a little too outlandish for an Ep. 1. That said, I'm sure I'll watch next week's (and to be honest, I usually make it through a full season of shows unless I just absolutely can't take it). I'm hopeful it can improve.

[Lavabe]

For those of you interested in this much-hyped new show, the pilot airs tonight.

Here is an early review (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/09/arts/television/09frin.html?th&emc=th) from the NYTimes. It is fairly encouraging.

--Jason "I look forward to the discussion tomorrow, after we have seen the show" Evans

Where was this "much-hyped?" I saw no hype at all about it. Then again, now that I think of it, I haven't been watching a lot of Fox lately (Olympics).

Maybe now that we have HD, I'll get a look at it. Thanks for the alert and review.
Cheers,
Lavabe

[Fish80]

I watched the show and I liked it (sung to the tune of I kissed a girl).

$10M budget for the pilot? That's serious money, some movies cost less than that.

The role of the cow really puzzles me. I have to watch it again to see what they ever used the cow for. :D

[bjornolf]

There was a pretty good amount of hype. There were tons of TV commercials on Fox and FX and FMC and a few other Fox owned channels. They talked about it on a few of the talk shows, and they even did promos of it during football where the commentators even talked about it. (I wish Madden were still on Fox...I can just hear him... "Fringe? What's the Fringe? What kind of name is that for a show? Didn't he play for the Bears in the 80's? Yeah, that's him. Right? Got a touchdown in the Superbowl. That was on big guy." And Michaels responding "That was the Fridge, John, not the Fringe." "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, huh, huh.") There were even full page ads in magazines. I saw one in SI and two or three in Game Informer. Fox also spent half of its fall preview show talking about it. I haven't seen too many shows recently with as MUCH hype, or maybe I should say marketing, as the Fringe.


Speaking of which, I haven't seen the whole thing yet, but what I've seen almost reminds me more of Twin Peaks than X-Files. Does anyone else get that feeling, or have I just not seen enough of it yet. The kind of slow parts, the slowly building tension, the just totally weird scenes (like the cow), trying to solve a weird murder (or disappearance) from the start. I'll watch the rest tonight. Maybe I haven't seen enough yet.

[bigj4194]

I just finished watching the debut episode. I think that its going to be a good show...it will strech your imagination but for me as a SciFi fan this will be an great show.

[Lord Ash]

Hm, just finished, and it was so-so.

Having just watched the first four X-Files of my life this week, I have to say yes, it already felt X-Filey.

Some dialogue was witty. Some clearly tried to hard. I laughed a few times.

It almost felt like, at times, it was trying to be a funny show. But the majority felt like it was supposed to be scary and sci-fi.

Definately the blare of Lost trumpets before some commercials. I don't mind Abrams making that a JJ thing. BTW, there will only be ONE JJ on THIS forum!

The woman who played the main character is very, very pretty in a perfect way for the part. The crazy doc was also quite good. The Mighty Ducks guy tried too hard to be a pain and witty.

There was, as mentioned, a LOT going on... holy cow at some points. No pun intended.

Yeah, the logos over the places was too much for me, but points for trying something new.

Also... is it one storyline? Or will it be one major arc storyline with each week being a different CSI sort of solve-the-case thing? I don't know yet.

Ehh. 6/10, but some potential I think.

[Lavabe]

There was a pretty good amount of hype. There were tons of TV commercials on Fox and FX and FMC and a few other Fox owned channels. They talked about it on a few of the talk shows, and they even did promos of it during football where the commentators even talked about it. (I wish Madden were still on Fox...I can just hear him... "Fringe? What's the Fringe? What kind of name is that for a show? Didn't he play for the Bears in the 80's? Yeah, that's him. Right? Got a touchdown in the Superbowl. That was on big guy." And Michaels responding "That was the Fridge, John, not the Fringe." "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, huh, huh.") There were even full page ads in magazines. I saw one in SI and two or three in Game Informer. Fox also spent half of its fall preview show talking about it. I haven't seen too many shows recently with as MUCH hype, or maybe I should say marketing, as the Fringe.


Speaking of which, I haven't seen the whole thing yet, but what I've seen almost reminds me more of Twin Peaks than X-Files. Does anyone else get that feeling, or have I just not seen enough of it yet. The kind of slow parts, the slowly building tension, the just totally weird scenes (like the cow), trying to solve a weird murder (or disappearance) from the start. I'll watch the rest tonight. Maybe I haven't seen enough yet.

Thank you, Bjornolf. As I have little reason to watch the Fox family of channels (except for the soccer channel), and as we moved in the last month, I haven't seen much of Fox. That would explain the lack of hype I experienced.

Cheers,
Lavabe

[alteran]

I agree with the 6 out of 10 ratings. I'm usually pretty forgiving of pilots, though, and I think this show has potential.

The show I thought of was 24, and I don't mean that in a good way. I mean that in a "gratuitous suspension of disbelief" way.

Plenty of ridiculous stuff even before they get to the paranormal, like the limitless budget of the FBI subordinate, the 17-year abandoned lab at Harvard that still works, the contrived release conditions of the mad professor, the implausibility of the traitor/boyfriend and the protagonist being randomly assigned to the chemical storage facility, I could go on. All of these could easily have been written around with very believable items, but they chose to throw unbelievability in your face.

That makes me worry about the writing.

Like I said, reminds me of 24, except 24 sometimes gets to that "so bad it's good" place with contrivance, I don't see that being applicable here.

I know the cow was included for humor, but at least use it for something.

The clear skin stuff was a highly creepified, good visual. The opening sequence worked for me, too. The image of the plane just flying on with everyone dead was pretty cool.

I'll give it a few more eps, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Fish80]

. . . I know the cow was included for humor, but at least use it for something. . . .

The mad doc was very specific with his cow requirements. Perhaps the cow will become very important in subsequent episodes.

Never underestimate the cow!

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

The Mighty Ducks guy tried too hard to be a pain and witty.

Who's the Mighty Ducks guy? Is this also the Dawson's Creek guy?

The show was ok, I'll definitely watch it again as there isn't much else on that I find enjoyable. It is nearly a carbon copy of the X-Files mixed in with a little bit of Eureka.

[killerleft]

I tuned in late because the wife loves Big Brother and I forgot to dvr Fringe. It really does seem to have possibilities. I'll certainly give it another try.

I spent the first 10 minutes trying to figure out where I'd seen the mad scientist before. It's John Noble, who played Denethor in Lord of the Rings, of course. The acting seemed very good, at least. Are they re-running the pilot before the first show?

[pfrduke]

I tuned in late because the wife loves Big Brother and I forgot to dvr Fringe. It really does seem to have possibilities. I'll certainly give it another try.

I spent the first 10 minutes trying to figure out where I'd seen the mad scientist before. It's John Noble, who played Denethor in Lord of the Rings, of course. The acting seemed very good, at least. Are they re-running the pilot before the first show?

Encore on Sunday (I think). And apparently John Noble can only play batsh** crazy (although he does it well, and with gravitas).

[Reisen]

Just watched it in HD online. Loved it. 9/10. Remember, even Lost has had ratings issues...

[killerleft]

Encore on Sunday (I think). And apparently John Noble can only play batsh** crazy (although he does it well, and with gravitas).

Thanks, I'll set the DVR this evening!

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

Just watched it in HD online. Loved it. 9/10. Remember, even Lost has had ratings issues...

I think I read that only once has Lost has put up worse numbers than what Fringe got and that was right after the writers strike ended.

Not a great sign.

[JasonEvans]

Continuing plot question--

Are they going to make Joshua Jackson an FBI agent? Cause right now he is just a dude (a really smart dude who was trying to earn a living elsewhere) who is sorta being kept from working at his career because he is tangent associated with an ongoing FBI investigation. Pretty thin, if you ask me.

I hope they deal with this going forward.

Oh, and one more thing-- I am guessing we are gonna get some cool guest star down the road to be the CEO of that mega company that Blair Brown works for... the guy who worked with the old professor and stole his ideas to make a mega-rich company. I wonder who they will pick for this role. I imagine we will be introduced to this actor some time around sweeps.

It might be a good role for Roddy McDowell if he had not already been used by Heroes in a role that could have been coll but was woefully underdone.

--Jason "it needs to be someone menacing-- hmmm, would Donald Sutherland be good?" Evans

[bigj4194]

So...after the second episode of Fringe what do people think? I personally am a big fan. I think it shows great promise, but it also requires a certain amount of imagination. If the first and second episodes any example of what we are going to see for the rest of the show, i'm excited. Do other people feel the same way?

As for someone who never saw the X-files, I have heard a lot of discussion about the similarity of the shows. I am just curious, how similar is it really? Since I like this show, is it worth it to watch the X-files?

Note: mods, you may want to merge this with the debut thread, but since it doesn't have to do with the debut episode I decided to start a new thread.

[Cormac]

So...after the second episode of Fringe what do people think? I personally am a big fan. I think it shows great promise, but it also requires a certain amount of imagination. If the first and second episodes any example of what we are going to see for the rest of the show, i'm excited. Do other people feel the same way?

As for someone who never saw the X-files, I have heard a lot of discussion about the similarity of the shows. I am just curious, how similar is it really? Since I like this show, is it worth it to watch the X-files?

Note: mods, you may want to merge this with the debut thread, but since it doesn't have to do with the debut episode I decided to start a new thread.

I only saw the first 4 seasons of the X-Files and the first movie. Yes, the concept is similar, but I think Fringe is very different. So far, no aliens for starters (but its Abrams, so there's no telling where this show will go!). I also am enjoying Fringe more so far. X-Files is a great series, but I just think the actors and thus far the story lines/overarching theme are more interesting. Just my 2 cents. But X-Files is definitely worth watching and if you like fringe, then I think you would enjoy it.

[elvis14]

So far I've enjoyed the first two episodes. I'm trying to not pick it apart and just enjoy it. I think it has great potential so it's going to be interesting to see where they go with it. I like the cast, especially the main 3 characters.

[CLT Devil]

I thought is was decent, but not great. I do like LOST, and only have room in my brain to try and figure out these shows where you have to suspend reality for the hour you watch it, although at least Fringe explains what is going on instead of seemingly making it up as they go along like LOST.

It moves at a faster pace than the X-Files, but I can't see how Fringe is going to keep coming up with concepts that haven't been done on the X-Files. For all you Southpark fans, it reminds me of the episode where they try and come up with all these show ideas but for every good one they have someone points out the "Simpsons Did It."

Good visuals. The 'mad/absentminded scientist' irks me.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I didn't read the Fringe debut thread, and then didn't see the debut when it first aired. But then I watched it when it was re-aired over the weekend, and WOW! I loved it. Last night was OK but no where near as good. We'll see how it goes - I've set the DVR to record the series.

[bjornolf]

Trying to earn a living in a career? I believe he was trying to make a shady land deal to keep his bookies off his butt. If that's working at a career, I'm worried about you, Jason. I believe the female agent slipped it in to him at one point that she'd get his debts paid off if he helped her with his father.

And after watching it, I really don't see much of Twin Peaks in it. But I also don't see much of X-Files either. It seems more like that show a few years ago with the woman from Karen Sisco. What was it called? Threshold maybe? That had the creepy thing with the empty ship showing up where all the people went nuts and jumped off, and the bugs dancing in certain patterns, and some conspiracy, and messages from outer space or something. Some meteor had landed or something. It was letting off a signal or radiation or something that people with certain DNA were vulnerable to and it turned them into vicious attack zombies or something. There was even a little government conspiracy thrown in for good measure if I remember correctly. I don't remember it all, but this show reminds me a lot more of that show than X-Files. Though I might be mixing it with another show, cause I think there was another show that came out the same season that had a similar premise. Did anybody else watch that?

Has anybody else noticed that the networks seem to do that? A couple years ago it was the conspiracy theory shows. The next year it was aliens and they had the show with the glowing sting-ray looking things in the water that ate people and replaced their bodies as well as the show with the kid who adopted the dinosaur-like creature he found in the ocean. Does anyone remember those shows, or am I totally nuts here? How does that happen? Does one network come up with it first and then others copy them? Or does a popular movie give people ideas of what audiences will watch? Maybe our insider Jason can fill us in on that process. Jason?

[edensquad]

We have watched the first 2 shows; seems like "Bones" meets "X-Files".... **shrug **

We like Bones better.

[jimsumner]

Intriguing so far.

We'll see how it goes.

I do see a lot of similarities with X-files. Not so much plot lines as the sense of doom and dread, the feeling that nothing is as it should be, that no one can be trusted.

[JasonEvans]

Has anybody else noticed that the networks seem to do that? A couple years ago it was the conspiracy theory shows. The next year it was aliens and they had the show with the glowing sting-ray looking things in the water that ate people and replaced their bodies as well as the show with the kid who adopted the dinosaur-like creature he found in the ocean. Does anyone remember those shows, or am I totally nuts here? How does that happen? Does one network come up with it first and then others copy them? Or does a popular movie give people ideas of what audiences will watch? Maybe our insider Jason can fill us in on that process. Jason?

There is certainly a sense of "it worked once, lets make it work again" in Hollywood when it comes to themes for TV series. Sure, there are some formats that are always hanging around -- medical dramas, legal/cop/crime stories, comedies about families/parenting -- but whenever something vaguely new or unusual comes along and strikes a chord with viewers it almost always get replicated by all the networks.

Most folks trace the current sci-fi craze to Lost. There is little question that interest in that genre is part of what made NBC take the plunge with Heroes. It also helps that almost all of the biggest movies of recent years have been at least somewhat in the sci-fi realm.

Really, the TV networks trying to duplicate the success of one show is no different from what happens in the movie business. Iron Man, Batman, and other current superhero movies got their big-budget go-aheads from studios that saw the monster success that was Spiderman a few years ago.

All these things come in waves. We are currently in a big sci-fi wave. It will fade at some point. Sci-fi won't go away but something else will be on top for a little while and you'll see a lot less sci-fi/comic book stuff on TV and in theaters. Then, whatever the new fad is will fade and sci-fi will come back. It is hardly rocket science to see how this stuff works.

Want more examples? The current reality TV/game show craze on TV is largely a product of the huge success of Survivor (summer 2000) and Who Wants To Be a Millionaire (fall 1999-spring 2000). It is just how the entertainment biz works.

-Jason

One thing that

[bjornolf]

well, yeah, but a LOT of times the shows all seem to come out at the same time, like Threshold, Invasion (the one about the glowing rays in the water that eat people and replace them), and the other one I mentioned that I couldn't remember the name with the sea monsters the kid takes home (I just found it, it was called Surface). There was also a stream of paranormal type shows that came out together, back around the time of Freaky Links (which I loved). I understand how when something's successful, people will try to copy it. What I don't get is how two or three networks come out with shows that are VERY similar at the same time. That's what I don't get. How does that work?

[JasonEvans]

This kind of thing simply does not happen.

If you think the plot-lines on Fringe are unlikely, wait until you hear about the ratings for the show.

After a good-but-not-nearly-as-good-as-had-been-hoped debut week for Fringe, there was a fair amount of hand-wringing over the future of this stylish show. Traditionally, shows tend to drop off a bit from debut to 2nd week -- unless there is just so much buzz and excitement over the debut that the show can build. With a fair amount of hype going into its debut, I thought this would be difficult for Fringe. Basically, I figured that everyone who would watch the show already knew about it.

Well, I have no idea why but I was wrong, wrong, wrong! Fringe is a hit -- a big hit!

Helped out by a strong lead-in from Bones, Fringe's audience surged in week #2. The show attracted 13.3 million viewers, almost 50% more than it had in its debut week. That is just not done. Fox says no drama has done that in at least 5 years -- and perhaps ever.

Having one of Fox's biggest shows as its lead-in was probably a major reason for the bump, but that does not explain all of it. It is worth noting that Fringe attracted more males and more 18-34 year olds than Bones did, meaning Fringe's impressive number was not just about holding onto folks who were already watching Bones.

It is still not nearly a Lost-sized hit, but unless something drastic happens, it now appears Fringe will be here for a while.

--Jason "I have still not watched Ep 2 -- my TIVO awaits" Evans

[Schwarz]

Helped out by a strong lead-in from Bones, Fringe's audience surged in week #2. The show attracted 13.3 million viewers, almost 50% more than it had in its debut week. That is just not done. Fox says no drama has done that in at least 5 years -- and perhaps ever.

Having one of Fox's biggest shows as its lead-in was probably a major reason for the bump, but that does not explain all of it. It is worth noting that Fringe attracted more males and more 18-34 year olds than Bones did, meaning Fringe's impressive number was not just about holding onto folks who were already watching Bones.


It was actually preceded by the House season premiere. What sort of numbers did House receive?

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

Agree with others that it's okay, not great so far. Very derivative of X-Files, Eureka, etc. with a Monk/Silence of the Lambs zany Dr tossed in. (The only similarity I saw with Twin Peaks was the Kyle McLaughlin lookalike twins in the Pilot). Also found the writing really terrible at times. Leaving aside the plot issues mentioned above, the dialogue was really, really bad. "Terrible terror" was the low point, but tons of motivation presented via statement ("I want to drive a tank into the building"), hackneyed "action" lines, etc. Believe it or not, there are better way to establish that a female character is fighting in a "man's world" than to have everyone call her "honey" a lot and be dismissive.

Still, a lot of shows start off rough and get better, so I think it's due a few more weeks to see if they start developing characters beyond "the hard-a__" boss, the "brilliant eccentric", and "Pacey but whinier." X-Files worked because of Mulder and Scully and I've seen nobody with anything approaching the complexity and chemistry of those characters presented in the X-Files pilot. Abrams normally gives us such strong characters so I'll be cautiously interested to see what he brings as the season progresses.

[JasonEvans]

It was actually preceded by the House season premiere. What sort of numbers did House receive?

Duuuuh-- I knew that. I am an idiot. I don't know why I wrote Bones. Those two shows are not in the same ballpark in terms of ratings.

House did ok in its debut, but not up to its usual very high standards. It pulled in 14.7 million viewers, tops of any show on Tuesday night. But, that is a sharp decline from a year ago when house debuted with more than 18 million viewers. It is not a decline to be alarmed about-- House remains one of the biggest dramas on TV-- but it is a drop off from last season.

--Jason "if House and Fringe continue to do these exact same numbers, Fox will be very pleased" Evans

[freshmanjs]

Seems to me that Fox would have been better off premiering Fringe right after the premiere of House. That would have gotten a much larger audience for the 1st episode (much stronger ep than #2). Anyway, the show is enjoyable enough that I'm glad it has an audience.

[JasonEvans]

Seems to me that Fox would have been better off premiering Fringe right after the premiere of House. That would have gotten a much larger audience for the 1st episode (much stronger ep than #2). Anyway, the show is enjoyable enough that I'm glad it has an audience.

The problem was that the Fringe debut episode was 90 mins long (with limited commercial interruptions, 2 hours with regular commercials). Putting it on the same night as House was impossible.

As an aside, Fox has been big time long enough that it should start programming until 11pm anyway. Think of all they are giving away by not putting anything on after the 2-hour editions of American Idol!

--Jason "how did ABC let JJ pitch Fringe to Fox?!?!" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Fringe Ratings Report- Week #3

This was not a good week. After the big boost from House, Fringe fell back down again this week, to 9.6 million viewers. It was 3rd in its time slot, well behind the debut of he Mentalist on CBS (15.5 million viewers) and Dancing With the Stars on ABC (17+ million). However, that only tells part of the story.

Fringe may have been clobbered by those two shows in total viewers, but it did quite well when you only look at the very desirable younger demographics. It actually won the 9pm hour among 18-34 year olds and it came in a very close second to Dancing in the 18-49 year old demo. The takeaway from this is the The Mentalist is skewing very, very old (like many CBS shows) and that Fringe, despite some less than stellar overall ratings, is still a hit among younger viewers. Fringe will live for a while, it seems.

--Jason "I have a feeling that JJ and the folks behind Fringe have some stuff planned out that will make this seem smarter than just an X-Files rip-off... I hope" Evans

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

I have to disagree with some of the comments.

I've watched a helluva lot of X-files, I don't think the show is meant to immitate it in any way shape or form.

If you've been really into Lost, actively playing the Arg game, looking into the Wiki-files, you'll see there is a lot of "fringe" science in the world of lost.

JJ's Cloverfield had an extremely realistic sci-fi feel to it as well which is what I think makes him so talented among others.

I think Fringe is a channel for some other of JJ's ideas. It seems to me like he wants us as an audience to really delve into what could be possible.
It doesn't mean its going to be as complete as LOST, but it may take your mind on a rollercoaster through a lot of different futuristic possibilities. A lot of things we use on a day to day basis - if you'd go back 400 years - no one would ever even think of believing it was possible.

more later.

[CLT Devil]

Okay - After last night's 'The Arrival' episode I think I'm done with Fringe. Too many unbelievable events...bald guy who can read minds, bad guy came back to life after being killed in first episode, some dude with a crazy ray gun, wacky scientist subdues agent and wants a root beer. Thought it could have been a decent show but last night was pretty bad.

[JasonEvans]

Okay - After last night's 'The Arrival' episode I think I'm done with Fringe. Too many unbelievable events...bald guy who can read minds, bad guy came back to life after being killed in first episode, some dude with a crazy ray gun, wacky scientist subdues agent and wants a root beer. Thought it could have been a decent show but last night was pretty bad.

I have to admit, "The Observer" troubles me. I think they were on a fairly cool theme up until this point where they were trying to explain everything with some form of science. I am at a loss for how you explain "The Observer" other than making him someone from the future or from outer space or something dorky like that. He is a cool mystery but takes the show in a direction that I do not like and that is not consistent with where they have gone so far.

I was also bothered that no one commented on the weapon the bad guy was using in this past episode. Joshua Jackson said, "careful, he's got a gun!" at one point but then the bad dude fired his weapon and it caused an explosion much bigger than any gun and no one bothered to even mention it. What's more, the bad guy used his weapon to kill lots of FBI folks but no one talked about the mystery of how they died. I am guessing there were no bullet holes. That should have been a major part of what they were investigating. At the end, the bad guy is dead and the gun is lying on the ground, but the hot female FBI agent does not even give it a second glance. Poor storytelling.

Still, I am sorta digging the show and am willing to give it more time.

-Jason "my wife is not a fan, which is a bad sign as she fell for Lost and XFiles pretty quickly" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Fox has picked up Fringe (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117993202.html?categoryid=14&cs=1) for the entire season. It is the leading show among 18-49 year old viewers, which is a very key demographic.

Additionally, the ratings held firm (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117993181.html?categoryid=14&cs=1) this week. It won its time slot among 18-49 year olds and is keeping about 80% of the strong leadin from House.

I hope that the security of good ratings and a full season pickup will allow the writers and producers to build some important plot points to really allow this show to live up to its potential.

-Jason "I skipped Heroes this week... I am so proud of myself" Evans

[bigj4194]

I too am still enjoying this show. I think this show is one that yu need a little bit of imagination on and one that will continue to be interesting.

A side thought about the observer...I hope they explain him more in future episodes.

[Cavlaw]

I had House on while making dinner, and left the TV tuned to Fox when Fringe came on. I lasted about 15-20 minutes of having it on in the background before I just had to find something more interesting.

[CLT Devil]

I'm with you. The first few episodes were good, but this latest one I had to break out the cpu and do some work while I had it on in the background.

Jason - your points were right on the money. The bald 'observer' guy seemed to not be a human, maybe outer space? Why didn't the agent immediately grab the digging thing if she knew it could dig a hole by itself and disappear? The gun is a whole 'nother story...it took out multiple agents who wore heavy armor, yet in the woods he couldnt hit someone because they hid behind a slender tree? Maybe Im being too picky, but these little things are what I liked about the X-Files, and it seems like it's too early to have so many mysteries with no explanation...maybe if they had introduced them at a slower rate.

Interest is waning...Ill give it one more episode.

[elvis14]

I finally watched this weeks Fringe last night (after the VP debate). I have to agree with what others have said, it was a weak episode that was too over the top. In one episode, we have the following which are not in anyway explained or sometimes not even openly wondered about:


The ray gun (nobody mentioned it, tried to keep it etc)
The bad guy with the ray gun, no background no information about who he was working for, etc
The bald guy (at least Pacey was wondering why this guy could read his mind) really what's up with that guy
The mind reading machine the bad guy used...what happened to that?
The dead boyfriend showing up
The big silver suppository that humms


Then there's the whole thing where we get hints that "Massive Dynamics" is really the evil empire. Then we see them working with the FBI? Yet what we don't see is anyone really trying to investigate MD to figure out what's up. We keep hearing references to "the pattern" but we don't see anyone trying to put the pieces together to figure it out.

This show has so much potential, I hope future episodes are better than last night and don't require not just suspension of disbelief but also suspension of common sense!

[JasonEvans]

My wife says she is getting a little bit tired of the "mad doctor" always instantly knowing the answer for everything. It seems every single little project he worked upon 20 years ago is now part of "the pattern." Ok, I am fine with that because the pattern is probably being created by Massive Dynamics and the mad doc's old lab partner. But are we supposed to think that the folks at Massive D have not come up with any other new stuff in the past 20 years?

So far, the show is reeking of "X Files" episodes that are not about the overall story but are just random stuff. I guess last night was ok, but it didn't do all that much for me. I suspect that the bad guy doctor who did the experiments will certainly play a role down the road, but if that is the case then I think we needed to get to know him better in this episode. The show is doing some decent ongoing stuff with Mark Valley's dead character but it is so much of a side thought that it is not hooking me.

I want something to make me wonder what is going on but give me clues at the same time. I want something to make me want to come back -- something more than blind faith that the shows knows where it is going adn that it is going to some cool places.

Sure, having the bald "observer" walk out of the elevator before it crashes to the ground was sorta fun but the show needs to do more than just have the bald guy show up every episode in my opinion.

Oh, and when are they going to do something -- anything -- with Joshua Jackson's character? He is supposed to be some genius but his role so far mostly consists of one-liners about how crazy his father is. Yawn.

--Jason "everyone noticed the bald observer, right?" Evans

[BluDevilGal]

--Jason "everyone noticed the bald observer, right?" Evans

Nope, totally missed that. But I'm hopeless at noticing anything whether on tv or in real life.

Thanks for pointing it out!

[JasonEvans]

Nope, totally missed that. But I'm hopeless at noticing anything whether on tv or in real life.

Thanks for pointing it out!

Do you have the show on your DVR? It is at the beginning of the episode in the scene where the cute receptionist and the creepy electrified delivery man get on the elevator together. Just as the elevator doors open someone gets off the elevator. It is "baldy" the Observer guy from the last episode. He somewhat eyes the electric guy and then walks out of frame. It happens quickly.

-Jason "I was sorta hoping there would be a security tape that would show him" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Ahhh-- all it took was a little bit of internet digging to find this...

(for some reason, I cannot make it show up, so I attached the image instead)

--Jason "there's baldy, getting off the elevator" Evans

[Cormac]

Sounds like I'm the only person still enjoying this show! I know it was picked up for a full season, so hopefully it will survive! I think I'm just a sucker for all things Abrams. I loved all of the seasons of Alias and I definitely love Lost. So maybe I'm just a big dork! I still don't get much of an X-Files vibe when I'm watching Fringe. I don't know, X-Files just always seemed more cheesy to me (only saw the first 4 seasons and the first movie). Sure you have to suspend reality during Fringe, but it seems more grown-up to me than X-Files. Also, I love the crazy doctor. Walter is hilarious. Come on, who didn't laugh when he was dancing a jig in wool socks to build up some static electricity???

[Cormac]

Guess I really am the only one who hasn't given up on this show yet! I still love it! Last night's epi was pretty good I thought. Turning people into radioative dirty bombs is an interesting premise. Walter kills me! (Bring back cotton candy! Blue!! Not pink!! :D ) Anyway, I'm still enjoying it, even if you have to suspend thinking once in awhile!

[JasonEvans]

Yes, I too somewhat enjoyed this week's episode. I forgot to notice if The Observer made a cameo at any point, perhaps as a patron in the coffee shop at the beginning.

Overall the episode was ok. I was glad that it was not another case of them investigating something Walter had worked on years ago that had been turned into some evil weapon. I am getting a little bit tired of that. I found the bad drug company executive's attitude toward the FBI to be really unrealistic, especially when he threatened Olivia (with not having babies or something like that-- huh??). I did not like it when Olivia's boss came down hard on her either, that seemed unrealistic too.

Still, the show feels like X-files lite. We had yet another episode with a science experiment gone bad this week. I am fine with that but it increasingly looks like few of these episodes are linked in any way. Yes, Massive Dynamics played a role again and I am betting there will be some real fireworks down the road when Nina Sharp (Blair Brown) asks for her favor from Peter, but I am left wondering where this thing is going. Actually, that is not true, I am left wondering if it really is going anywhere that matters.

I still think JJ and company have a plan for "the pattern" -- for revealing more about it and what it means -- but they sure are taking their time getting there. I am getting a tad frustrated.

--Jason "need to go check the ratings..." Evans

[JasonEvans]

Ok, the ratings still look pretty good. This show will be around all season, I am sure.

Fringe got 9.1 million viewers on Tuesday, coming in third behind DWTS (16 million) and The Mentalist (15.3 mil). However, Fringe beat both those shows (and everyone else) in the 18-49 demographic and it crushed them in the 18-34 demo. Fringe is the show young people are watching Tuesdays at 9.

That said, much of Fringe's success could be coming from House as a strong lead-in. Fringe is holding about 75% of House's audience. Fringe is also showing some dropoff in its second half-hour (about 10-15%), perhaps as the House holdovers decide they don't want to bother to watch the rest of this program.

Still, the bottom line is that Fringe is doing well enough that it appears to be a success -- for now.

Fringe does face a bit of a challenge in coming weeks. The World Series and the election are going to push it off the air for a couple weeks and some shows really get hurt when they loses momentum early in their life-spans. But, Fringe is doing very well in Tivo ratings so I am betting its audience will not forget about it.

--Jason "I am hoping that JJ has some nice plot twists and multi-episode arcs in store for us" Evans

[JasonEvans]

I forgot to notice if The Observer made a cameo at any point, perhaps as a patron in the coffee shop at the beginning.


Nope, but he was hanging out at party where Olivia confronted the drug company executive --

Click here to see the frame grab with him in it. (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YPCf8JFgUdI/SP6_liV8y9I/AAAAAAAAH-I/LRdDZZCoGwo/s1600-h/Observer.jpg)


--Jason "ok, I am now convinced he will show up in every episode-- my new goal is to find him every time ;) " Evans

[Cormac]

Jason, has he been in every episode so far, or just in all of them since the tunneling torpedo epi? Having watched every episode of Lost and Alias, I learned a long time ago to be very, VERY patient with shows affiliated with Abrams. They may end up going somewhere awesome, but in the meantime, I just sit back and enjoy the journey. Hopefully peope will remain patient with Fringe as well. *fingers crossed*

[JasonEvans]

Jason, has he been in every episode so far, or just in all of them since the tunneling torpedo epi? Having watched every episode of Lost and Alias, I learned a long time ago to be very, VERY patient with shows affiliated with Abrams. They may end up going somewhere awesome, but in the meantime, I just sit back and enjoy the journey. Hopefully peope will remain patient with Fringe as well. *fingers crossed*

It is my understanding that he has been in every episode. He was in the pilot walking outside of Massive Dynamics.

Considering the poor actor had to shave his eyebrows, I am glad they are giving him consistent work ;)

Actually, he is a guy named Michael Cerveris (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0148964/mediaindex) and is a very successful Tony Award winning stage actor.

--Jason "I am trying to remain patient, but, aside from the Observer, I have gotten few hints that they plan anything more than a random mystery each week" Evans

[ohioguy2]

Glad to see this thread is ongoing. Time Warner and Fox are at odds here in Ohio and TW is not broadcasting Fox shows! No World Serious, no Fox at all on cable. I liked the few shows I saw, and really Fringe is the only fox show I miss, even though I time shifted them and watched only when I had time.

[killerleft]

I'm not too worried about how everything ties in. The acting is very good, and I love John Noble's character, Walter.

I guess I don't require as much from shows as some of you guys. Fringe moves at a fast pace and delivers lots of action. I've read lots of books with less action that withheld the "grab" until the very end, and those books were very good (The Other, by Thomas Tryon, comes to mind).

[Ignatius07]

--Jason "I am trying to remain patient, but, aside from the Observer, I have gotten few hints that they plan anything more than a random mystery each week" Evans

I normally don't read the OTB other than for Lost threads, so I was glad to check in here to see this. I too have seen each episode, and I've had the same exact complaint as you, Jason - feeling that each episode is random and not linked enough to the others. I think the X-Files Lite comparison is really spot on. Lost suffered from the same general flaw in its first couple of seasons, but it's "random" characteristic was introducing subplots that it completely dropped and didn't explain. That is frustrating, of course, though not as bad as having Fringe being essentially it's own hour-long made-for-TV movie each week. It's not that bad, of course, but I really want to see more continuity. I'll probably stick with it through the year.

I like Walter a lot as well, though I didn't think his dialogue was very good in Tuesday's episode. Especially his "third question" in the diner in the beginning when he asked for some of the French onion soup. I feel like I am pointing out a lot of flaws for one of only a few shows that I actually watch, but I guess that's because I expect big things from JJ Abrams.

[DBFAN]

Nope, but he was hanging out at party where Olivia confronted the drug company executive --

Click here to see the frame grab with him in it. (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YPCf8JFgUdI/SP6_liV8y9I/AAAAAAAAH-I/LRdDZZCoGwo/s1600-h/Observer.jpg)


--Jason "ok, I am now convinced he will show up in every episode-- my new goal is to find him every time ;) " Evans

That is cool, I did not see him in that one and I was looking because I caught him in the Elevator on the previous episode. I to will make it my goal to catch him every week.

[CLT Devil]

Make it or break it week for me......hope it keeps my attention. Wait, look like a rerun, nevermind.

[JasonEvans]

Make it or break it week for me......hope it keeps my attention. Wait, look like a rerun, nevermind.

What did you think of this week?

I was somewhat underwhelmed with the episode though I really like that it feels like the show is starting to set up some interesting stuff. This episode was clearly designed to set up a lot of future developments.

Oh, I was quite disappointed with this week's appearance by baldy. I feel like they have put him in fairly key places for the most part, generally right where the key paranormal activity is happening or around the person who is responsible for it. In short, he is usually "Observing" as he should be.

This week, he was in the crowd just ahead of Olivia as she is walking off the plane in Germany. It was a bad location for him as there was nothing in that place for him to Observe. They also had him so obviously walk toward the camera. It is sorta more fun when they hide him -- though I still love the fact that he got off the elevator a few episodes back right before the electric man got on board.

Anyway, here is this week's image of baldy--

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YPCf8JFgUdI/SRrypHTPF9I/AAAAAAAAIEo/VYJ-CcVoMP4/s576/TheObserver107.jpg

--Jason "need to check on the ratings to see if this show is still doing well" Evans

[Cormac]

I'm still loving the show. I agree that they are making it fairly easy to spot baldy, but I'm guessing they feel that they need to make him more obvious in order for the majority to see him. Most people tend to have ADHD when it comes to tv shows (re: LOST) so if they just keep hiding him, I would guess a lot of people will miss his importance. I like how Jackson's character seemed to have a bigger role in this episode than just the occasional one liners. I really like the interaction between him and Walter.

[bigj4194]

I too am still loving the show. Thanks to this thread I have paid more attention to each episode and have started to spot baldy in each episode. I hope that the show is still doing well as I would hate to see it end without a conclusion.

Cormac- I too like the interaction between walter and his son...its always comical...especially in this episode when it comes to the gum or a breath mint at the beginning.

[killerleft]

This show is just lots of fun! Mucho action and Walter. I certainly didn't see that ending coming. I forgot to look for Baldy.

[JasonEvans]

I hope that the show is still doing well as I would hate to see it end without a conclusion.


Fear not, it ain't going anywhere. Fox has ordered a full season and the ratings, while not spectacular, are certainly very solid. It is skewing young so that even though it gets only about half as many total viewers as The Mentalist or Dancing With The Stars, it beats both of them in the 18-49 demographic and wins that demo. It wins the 18-35 demo even more consistently. It is also skewing more upscale, which is a big deal as well.

Now, much of Fringe's success may be from having a superstar leadin in House but things are about to get even better for Fringe in that regard because starting in January fox has decided to put put American Idol on ahead of Fringe. Talk about ratings gold!!

It would take a creative and ratings disaster for this show not to get picked up for another season at least.

--Jason "I do want to see the show start to go somewhere from an overall plot standpoint" Evans

[BD80]

Count me in as another fan of the show. Thanks for the heads up on the observer, that is the kind of detail I often miss as I do not typically devote full attention to the show. He does kind of remind me of Charlie Runkle from Californication, which is one of my favorite shows on TV.

Maybe with the most recent episode we are starting to see a plot develop to explain who is behind the occurrences that drive the story lines. I do hope that it doesn't get as convoluted as Lost, which started to lose me a couple of seasons ago and really went overboard when it jumped into the future.

[Cormac]

I whiffed on the Observer. Anybody know what scene he was in? I was just getting good at finding him in the last few episodes too! D'oh! Anyway, as usual, I liked the episode. Did I miss what they did to the apple at the end of the episode or are we not supposed to know yet? I like the continuity of bringing the parasite-inflicted FBI guy back. At least he was still important to the episode instead of disappearing for a few weeks and then coming back! Any other thoughts? Watching Walter suffer in the institution was heart-breaking. I love the guy! Missed him not being obsessed with something in this episode though!

[bigj4194]

i'm with you...i missed the observer and i was looking for him...haven't been good at spotting him until ive read this board, but i was looking hard for him and couldnt find him either. i thought it too was a good episode. *SPOILER ALERT* I wish they had explained the equation a little more though. All they said was the equation was completed and it led to the guy being able to stick his hand through a solid surface and grab the apple and pull it out. As always...looking forward to next week

[JasonEvans]

I saw him!! But it was hard!

At the 46 minute mark, he is standing in the background next to a tree as Olivia walks outside just moments before she spots the "red temple." No way you would notice him unless you were really looking hard. He is standing perfectly still, which makes him actually stand out a little bit as he is in a place where he should be moving. He is not looking at the camera but it looking off in a different direction. He is waaay in the background. I saw him and pointed him out and it still took my wife watching the scene again to spot him.

There were very few opportunities for him to show up this week as the action rarely took place in a public place. I don't like that he is showing up a lot in places where Olivia could spy him, seeing as she knows to be on the lookout for him and would probably try to grab him to question him if she spotted him. His appearance is unique enough that a good FBI agent would spot him... although he may be able to be invisible or whatever.

At least he was not essentially on the same airplane as Olivia this week ;)

--Jason "decent episode, IMO, and I liked that we got a continuation of the bad FBI guy at the end" Evans

[bigj4194]

I saw him!! But it was hard!

At the 46 minute mark, he is standing in the background next to a tree as Olivia walks outside just moments before she spots the "red temple." No way you would notice him unless you were really looking hard. He is standing perfectly still, which makes him actually stand out a little bit as he is in a place where he should be moving. He is not looking at the camera but it looking off in a different direction. He is waaay in the background. I saw him and pointed him out and it still took my wife watching the scene again to spot him.

After this...i went back and looked for him...it took me a couple of watches but i finally spotted him. Here's a pic attached. NICE SPOT Jason!

[JasonEvans]

After this...i went back and looked for him...it took me a couple of watches but i finally spotted him. Here's a pic attached. NICE SPOT Jason!

I think this makes me The Observer observer.

--Jason " ;) " Evans

[bigj4194]

Yes you are The Observer observer. I look to you every week when I don't spot him because you obviously quite good.

[Cormac]

I always knew butterflies were evil!!!

[JasonEvans]

I am out of town and may not watch this week's episode for several days. I'll post about The Observer after watching. Was he easy to spot or do I need to look hard?

--Jason "I wish they shot this show in HD" Evans

[bigj4194]

I whiffed...and i was trying to pay close attention...it must have been in the first 10-15 minutes as i was really watching the last 1/2 hour...then again i could have just completely missed...which has been known to happen...i look forward to the observer observer (wink wink Jason) to let me know where he was this past week!

[Cormac]

I whiffed...and i was trying to pay close attention...it must have been in the first 10-15 minutes as i was really watching the last 1/2 hour...then again i could have just completely missed...which has been known to happen...i look forward to the observer observer (wink wink Jason) to let me know where he was this past week!

I was multitasking and forgot to look for him too. D'oh!

[BluDevilGal]

I whiffed...and i was trying to pay close attention...it must have been in the first 10-15 minutes as i was really watching the last 1/2 hour...then again i could have just completely missed...which has been known to happen...i look forward to the observer observer (wink wink Jason) to let me know where he was this past week!


I was multitasking and forgot to look for him too. D'oh!

Me too! By the time I remembered to start looking, I must have already missed him. Had to be pretty early on in the episode.

[JasonEvans]

Sorry-- with holiday travel I have not been able to watch last week's episode yet. Will let you know as soon as I do. Hopefully I will observe him ;)

-Jason

[killerleft]

I know where The Observer can be found. But I cheated by looking it up at a Fringe-dedicated website. I also found out that he has a name. Has this been discussed, or does anyone know what The Observer's name is?

[bigj4194]

I know where The Observer can be found. But I cheated by looking it up at a Fringe-dedicated website. I also found out that he has a name. Has this been discussed, or does anyone know what The Observer's name is?

i only know him as the observer...but im curious where he was in this past episode

[killerleft]

The Observer is against a wall when Mark Young (butterfly cuttee) gets out of an elevator.

The Observer's name is September.

[bigj4194]

The Observer is against a wall when Mark Young (butterfly cuttee) gets out of an elevator.

The Observer's name is September.

Before reading your post I decided to watch the episode again just to see if I could spot him. 33 seconds into the episode I did indeed...right where you said

[bigj4194]

also...where did we learn that his name is september? I know you looked on a website, but is there mention of it in a specific episode?

[Cormac]

I thought last nights episode was one of the best so far! But I am biased! :D They brought back some of the characters from previous episodes, instead of waiting 6 months to do so! I am very curious about the relationship between Broyles and Nina Sharp. He obviously knows she is shady, but still works with her/accepts her help. I think its a very interesting dynamic (Pun totally intended!).

[killerleft]

also...where did we learn that his name is september? I know you looked on a website, but is there mention of it in a specific episode?

http://fringepedia.net/index.php?title=Main_Page

If you go to the website and click on recurring characters and The Observer's photo, it says under 'trivia' that "in the official Fox press release for The Arrival (episode), The Observer is named September.

[JasonEvans]

http://fringepedia.net/index.php?title=Main_Page

If you go to the website and click on recurring characters and The Observer's photo, it says under 'trivia' that "in the official Fox press release for The Arrival (episode), The Observer is named September.

If they ever actually call him September on the show that will be the moment that Fringe jumped the shark ;)

--Jason "is it kinda sad that almost all of our discussion of this show centers around a simple gimmick that has little to do with the overall plot?" Evans

[JasonEvans]

I just watched the butterfly episode and I cannot believe ya'll missed the Observer. He was in the episode at about the 2-second mark.

I also looked extensively for him in John Scott's memories but did not find him. I was sure I would see him in the background at the restaurant when Olivia and John were on their first date, but no luck. That would have been a cool little moment.

Oh, one other very amusing easter egg moment in the episode. When Olivia is looking around the butterfly guy's apartment and she found a plane ticket to Omaha-- the ticket was issued by a fictional airline. Wanna guess which airline it was?

Oceanic.

Nice little tip of the hat to fans of JJ's other show, Lost.

Oooh, I just did a little bit of internet searching and I found an image of the plane ticket. Here is it--

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YPCf8JFgUdI/SS0RvhJhUzI/AAAAAAAAISs/9Tz7qWoFmYE/s1600-h/OceanicAir.jpg

--Jason "I cannot lie, my wife spotted the plane ticket, not me" Evans

[killerleft]

Walter is quickly becoming my second-favorite character on TV, just behind Agent Gibbs on NCIS.

[bigj4194]

so this past episode was my favorite from the entire season so far. Fantastic episode. I can't wait until the next one. I was also successful in finding September (the observer!) he was pretty easy to spot in this one.

[Cormac]

Anyone visit any of the various websites associated with Fringe? Like imagetheunimpossibilities.com and massivedynamic.com. On one of the websites, there was a video of sheep forming perfect circles in fields in Iowa. I think they said there were like 10 cases and they were related to the "pattern". I wonder if this will actually play a role in the show, or is just something to peak interest before the show aired? Anyone check any of these out? Also, Walter is definitely one of my favorite characters too. He cracks me up. I love his weekly obsessions, like wool socks and gum. Good stuff.

[bigj4194]

Also, Walter is definitely one of my favorite characters too. He cracks me up. I love his weekly obsessions, like wool socks and gum. Good stuff.

I concur...how about root beer floats? that was a good one

[Ignatius07]

so this past episode was my favorite from the entire season so far. Fantastic episode. I can't wait until the next one. I was also successful in finding September (the observer!) he was pretty easy to spot in this one.

Where was the Observer in Tuesday's episode?

I re-watched the beginning of last week's just to see the Observer and he is embarrassingly obvious now that I re-watch it.

[bigj4194]

It was in the very beginning...right after the "previously on fringe" when you see the guy disabling the security systems, look in the monitors.

[Pacer]

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/39362

[Lord Ash]

I for one am glad that they have gotten past the initial "here is how the show will work" formula and have started to link everything together. You need this sort of linking to really keep a show like this fresh, and to keep fans interested. I am a firm believer that a show like this needs a definate end point as well that the writers can work towards, so I hope they do a good job keeping it interesting in the meanwhile since they do not have that sort of definate end-point.

There are definately some points in each show where I just shake my head, which is a shame... you know, the "I'll run off on my own over here to check this thing out!" sort of moments that, to me, just KILL the believeability of a show... I hope they avoid this, and I also hope that they can cut back, somewhat, on the "Ahh we don't understand this... ah wait, Walter gets it!" stuff. Good for some episodes, sure, but it can get old quick.

Anyway... fun new show. Hope it stays good, and I hope they keep them tightly linked; I was nervous there about three or four shows ago...

[Cormac]

Anyone know when episode 11 is supposed to air?


Edit: Nevermind. Not until Jan. 20th. Argh, thats a looooong wait!

[killerleft]

The wait is over. Fringe returns tonight!

[Cormac]

Anybody have any thoughts on last week's episode of Fringe? With the long layoff I totally forgot to look for the Observer, doh! I"m guessing he might have been in the classroom at the beginning, but I really have no idea. Have to re-watch the episode!

[JasonEvans]

Anybody have any thoughts on last week's episode of Fringe? With the long layoff I totally forgot to look for the Observer, doh! I"m guessing he might have been in the classroom at the beginning, but I really have no idea. Have to re-watch the episode!

Been busy. Have not seen it yet. Still on my DVR waiting for me to watch it.

-Jason "a tough to spot Observer is what I like!" Evans

[JasonEvans]

I watched it last night. Ehhh, it was just a so-so episode.

I did not spot the Observer. The online Fringe fansites say he MIGHT have been walking around the Harvard campus when Olivia pulls up in her car to pick up Walter and Peter just after she has escaped from her captors. There is also someone who claims the Observer was in the classroom of the prof who died at the beginning. I did not see him in either case.

My wife has given up on the show. She only watched half of the episode. She says the main characters just are not as interesting as the main characters on the XFiles (I agree) and that she is not drawn into the story either. I agree with her that the overall story has developed slowly. I had high hopes for this episode -- I think Olivia's kidnapping and whatever it was that the bad FBI agent was involved in will be large plot points in the grand scheme of things. But, it is coming together so slowly, it is just not grabbing my attention and making me care.

I am sticking with the show, but I am afraid that JJ is again planning on telling us a story over 5 or 6 seasons and I don't think I have the patience for it this time. They really need to pick up the pace, IMO.

--Jason "need to check the ratings to see how the show is doing-- though a 2nd season is all but assured based on how it was doing before Xmas hiatus" Evans

[Cormac]

I'm assuming most on DBR have given up on this show? I still find it entertaining and thought last night's episode was especially fantastic. It opened up a lot of avenues and I think it will be quite interesting to see where some of the characters' stories go from here, especially Olivia and Walter. The show hinted at some interesting things that I won't spoil! Anyway, I think the show is on hiatus again until April (argh!!). Anyone else at all still enjoying it?

[killerleft]

Hey Cormac! Not only am I enjoying Fringe still, I think the last couple episodes have been among the best.

People who gave up on the show because Walter seemed to be a little too smart regarding the technology really missed out. As we know now, there is a very, very good reason that Walter is a step ahead of the game.

The acting is wonderful, the pace of the show is fast, and Walter revealed two very interesting things last night. When I heard the blurb about the next episode being in April, I wanted to throw a shoe at the screen, Arab-style!

I'll be watching in April. The only question is whether I'll have my Duke 2009 NCAA championship t-shirt on or not!

[Cormac]

Hey Cormac! Not only am I enjoying Fringe still, I think the last couple episodes have been among the best.

People who gave up on the show because Walter seemed to be a little too smart regarding the technology really missed out. As we know now, there is a very, very good reason that Walter is a step ahead of the game.

The acting is wonderful, the pace of the show is fast, and Walter revealed two very interesting things last night. When I heard the blurb about the next episode being in April, I wanted to throw a shoe at the screen, Arab-style!

I'll be watching in April. The only question is whether I'll have my Duke 2009 NCAA championship t-shirt on or not!


Woohoo, another fan still hanging on! I really thought this last episode may have been the best of the series so far, and I've loved all of them. Walter continues to crack me up (Walter, put the cow away!). Also, with the reveal as to why Walter always appears to be spot on all of the time, I wonder how all of it relates to his former partner Bell (btw, is he still alive/have we met him yet?). It seems Bell continued a lot of experiments that (perhaps) Walter wanted to end. Hopefully that didn't give too much away! I really like the supporting cast too, mainly Broyles, Charlie and Astrid. They are great complementary parts. Speaking of Broyles, I saw where he is listed in an upcoming episode of LOST, woohoo!

And, yes this whole 7 week layoff thing is a killer! I hope it doesn't kill the ratings, as this show definitely needs to return for another season (or many more hopefully!).

[CLT Devil]

The whole Walter schtick is too predictable;
Walter: I need two things...an electrocardiogram
"Sure Walter, we'll get it. You said you needed TWo things?"
Walter: Oh yes....and a frosty from Wendy's

Has there been an episode where he hasnt used that little line yet.

Also, why didnt they just keep cutting open the lips, mouth, etc of the guy whose mouth was growing over? Why not try, couldnt have hurt.

That being said....I'm still hanging in there, still watching...although it is getting close to the 'Show That I Love To Hate' status of LOST. I give up on LOST, once they introduce time travel they can basically explain away all the things that didn't make sense before they could ump through time.

[Schwarz]

Last week's episode put the show back on track and actually resolved some things. The first couple shows since it returned in January were starting to lose my interest. I especially hated the guy who came to oversee their division who had an axe to grind with Olivia. It just seemed so pointless.

I haven't watched this week's yet.

[killerleft]

I wonder... if they could ump through time, would today's umps be as scared of Ty Cobb as they were back in the day? Sorry CLT Devil, the mental picture needed to be exorcised.

And yes, they could work in Walter's quirk of thinking of food no matter how gross the moment in more original ways. Time travel? I think that is certainly possible, since the experimental technonlogy was discovered a generation ago.

Did Olivia really make the lights go out?

[Lord Ash]

Ahh interesting to see this come back up! I was just going to post about it:)

Interesting to see what folks are saying. I too found that it is not holding me like I hoped it would. Love John Noble, and I think that Anna Torv is about as beautiful as a woman can be. However, I am still struggling with the show a bit. For some reason I cannot get my mind around the format itself; is it a generally episodic show where each mystery is stand-alone, sort of like X-Files (which eventually grew some connecting branches, but...) or is it more like Lost, where everything will eventually fit together. The in-between the show seems to have settled into sort of throws off my ability to enjoy it.

I am glad that they are finally introducing some continuity (for example, we have now seen the speak-with-the-dead-in-the-water-tank thing a few times) and that there are some twists being thrown in (that who we thought was a bad guy may have really been a GOOD guy of some sorts.) However, there is starting to be a LOT to follow, and for a show that is not, to be frank, written at the highest level of sophistication and intelligence that can be a bit of a burden. Also, the lack of a "Last month on Fringe" at the restart in January was ROUGH; I remembered bits and pieces, but not the whole thing. There is a lot of willing-suspension-of-disbelief, and not in the "Hey a slug just came out of that guys mouth" sorts of stuff... that I can handle, but the whole "FBI acting like idiots" type stuff is too much for me. Also, the fact that Walter understands every single thing they see because he did an experiment like it is getting old. The guy who is the second in command of the FBI just seems like a bit of a putz who always has the same puzzled, concerned expression on his face; make him a badass please! Finally, the sister thing is getting a little stale. I really do like giving Olivia family and closeness, but it is done in such a cheesy, forced manner...

I think the show needs to really start revealing some sort of structure, and needs to start being written in a more sharp, thoughtful way that avoids the "Hm wierd, lets bring it to Walter, ah he gets it, now we race against time!" formula that it is in.

Lets hope it improves.

Now... what about "How I Met Your Mother?" If Barney is not the funniest guy on TV I don't know WHO is!

[ncexnyc]

I'm still with the show. Let's be honest there isn't much else to watch on a Tuesday night.

I don't believe the immediate comparisions to the X-Files, which many people had in the back of their mind helped this show, but I think if you've stuck with it this far you will eventually be rewarded.

[Cormac]

And I loved it. The mini-Observer story I thought was pretty interesting and I really liked the relationship between he and Olivia. Perhaps the original Observer is also trying to help? Anyone else think that the CIA guy wasn't really CIA? I don't know, I get the feeling he's aligned with Massive Dynamic somehow.... Also, next weeks episode promises to be extra nutty. A pterodactyl? Interesting.... Good news is we get 5 more new episodes in a row!

[BlueDevilBaby]

What the heck happened at the end? I recorded it, and because Idol went too long, my recorder cut off. So I missed the end. I got to the part where they found out the Artist had bought plastic from the meat packing plant.

[killerleft]

http://www.fringetelevision.com/

[Cormac]

What the heck happened at the end? I recorded it, and because Idol went too long, my recorder cut off. So I missed the end. I got to the part where they found out the Artist had bought plastic from the meat packing plant.

If you want to see it and get a chance, the episode is up on Hulu.com















SPOILERS!!!!!!!!



If not, here is a quick summary. Walter tells Olivia that the boy is an empath and that he has bonded very strongly with Olivia and is trying to help her. However, when she asks him if he knows who the Artist is, he won't help her because he's angry with her. He overheard the conversation in which Broyles said they would hand the boy over to the CIA(?) when the case was solved. The boy doesn't want to leave, therefore he isn't helping anymore. Olivia talks to him and convinces him that she really needs his help and he sketches out a picture of the Artist. They set up a check point and begin checking cars (I think its near the meat packing place, but I'm a little fuzzy on that). They eventually find him (he has one of those yellow tree car freshener thingies hanging from his rear view mirror - if you remember earlier the boy created a yellow arrow/tree looking thing out of M&Ms). He speeds away and crashes his van and jumps out. Olivia chases him while Charlie helps the woman in the back that he had just grabbed. They fight in a cemetery and Olivia ends up killing him with his own knife. Olivia goes to see the female doctor that was taking care of the boy and asks her a "favor". They head back to the lab and she tells the boy that the doctor is going to take him to a family that will take care of him and where he will be safe. As he and the doctor are driving through a suburb, he looks out and sees the Observer standing on the sidewalk. Its almost as if the boy recognized him too instead of just the Observer knowing him. I hope that helps, its kind of a jumbled mess and a little long winded!

[BlueDevilBaby]

I figured they'd catch the Artists but I did not understand the Observer comments. Cool. I really do like this show and hope they can keep up the good work. Walter cracks me up. Thanks.

[Lord Ash]

Let me just check, because Fringe does a TERRIBLE job at "catch up," especially for such an involved show AND one that disappears for months on end mid-season...

There are two sides to some sort of conflict going on in this show, which does not include Olivia and the FBI. We assume Massive Dynamic is "bad," but they may in fact be "good." We saw people on these sides in the episode with the killer computer virus and the rogue cop with the thing around his heart and all of this... am I correct so far?

I hope they kill her buddy; he is annoyingly one-dimensional. In fact, the show overall could use a bit more depth for characters other than Olivia.

And lord almighty they love having Walter talking about his privates.

[CLT Devil]

I guess viewers will have to get used to the schtick of Walter being aloof:

"No, the little boy is actually deprived of oxygen all this time"
Other guy - "what do you need"
Walter - "A turntable....I have all these records and no player."
(Or something to that effect)

Overall a decent episode...the Artist was a little hard to believe that he had the time to string up a dead person and light all those candles with nobody seeing him. Still hooked by the show, much better than LOST which went from the show I love to hate to just the show I dont watch anymore.

[BD80]

... Now... what about "How I Met Your Mother?" If Barney is not the funniest guy on TV I don't know WHO is!

Cooper. Sheldon Cooper. Big Bang Theory.

[budwom]

Get this: Leonard Nimoy is joining the cast as the head honcho of Massive REally Big Dynamic.

[Lord Ash]

No kidding... just saw that he will play Bell, the guy who started Massive Dynamic. Cool person to choose!:)

[killerleft]

Leonard Nimoy will guest as Massive Dynamic head William Bell on Fringe!

http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2009/04/exclusive-fring.html?cnn=yes

Just one of many reports on the web concerning Spock and Fringe.

[Cormac]

Any thoughts on last night's episode? I thought it was interesting to see Walter actually attempt to take some responsibility for his actions, even if they did not directly cause the problem. I did not look for the Observer, so I'm not sure where he was. I'm kind of glad that they don't do the whole monster thing a lot, every once in a great while is plenty. I know everything on the show is far fetched, but these story lines on any show always seemed extra hokey to me for some reason. I still enjoyed it though, as I always do. I saw that Fringe was on a list of troubled shows that may not be back next year. They already pulled the plug on the Terminator show that was on the list, so hopefully Fringe can dodge the bullet. Perhaps having a couple of multi-week hiatuses in the middle of the season can be avoided next time....

[BlueDevilBaby]

I'm still liking it and hope it sticks around. Walter is a great character.

[JasonEvans]

The ratings since it came back a couple weeks ago are in-line with what it was doing before it went on hiatus. While the show has not been renewed, I would be shocked if Fox pulled the plug on it. They have invested a great deal in this program in terms of time slot (post-Idol and post-House), promotion, and the such.

The show has not been anything close to a ratings disaster-- in fact, it is mostly a ratings success and has strong demographics. No, it is not a runaway hit, but few first year shows are.

I just cannot imagine Fox giving up on it after a relatively good first season. Not gonna happen.

Now, what might happen is a move to a bad timeslot, like Thursday or Friday. I hope not, but I think that is the worst we could see given how Fringe has done ratings-wise this year.

--Jason "sorry I have not been active in this discussion for a while. I fell behind on Fringe and watched 2 episodes last night" Evans

[Lord Ash]

I haven't seen the last 15 minutes of last nights episode yet, but I have to admit I was sort of hoping it would be the same type of monster from that episode where that guy transformed on the plane. I really, really, really would like them to start tying multiple episodes together a bit more!

[Cormac]

I enjoyed it, saw the Observer at the end. It set up an interesting back story involving Walter and Olivia. Well, I guess it confirmed suspicions more than anything really!

[Lord Ash]

I must say, I am very happy with the way things are going.

I can't help but wonder if there will be a whole layer to our good doctor than meets the eye. Deep in that crazy, is there a level of brooding, sneaky experimenter on kids, or maybe even some sort of master of one of the sides in this upcoming war?

Everyone hear Nemoy's voice in that video of Olivia as a kid?

Love how suddenly connected things are getting. Finally the show is giving us what we need... an ongoing, followable story!

[Cormac]

I enjoyed the episode. Looks like we will be seeing William Bell soon. I wonder if they will show what else was on the video tape or if William Bell was the only name of importance. Also, the promo for next week looks really good. The Observer and Walter meeting? Fantastic.

[Cormac]

That episode was full of win. We found out more about Harris. The observer spoke again. Where did he take Walter? He apparently scares Nina Sharp of Massive Dynamic. Who does he work for? Is he from the parallel universe the ZFT is talking about? The future perhaps? An all around great episode. I'm sad the season is winding down, but in the good news category it has been picked up for a second season!!! :D


Edit: I just saw the promo for the season finale. Looks very promising! Nina can't die already, right? Or can she....

[JasonEvans]

Here is the article (http://www.reuters.com/article/televisionNews/idUSTRE54408V20090505) on Fringe being renewed for next season.

Also, the internet geeks are all aflutter because Clint Howard told the plot (http://www.geeksugar.com/3120250) of the new Star Trek film in last night's episode. Fun stuff!!!

-Jason "I am so glad that faithful watching of Fringe is really starting to pay off!!" Evans

[Lord Ash]

I'll join the chorus in saying I am SO glad it is finally "coming together" a bit. Is this going to take a totally new twist as Olivia becomes some "super" FBI agent, with powers and the whole nine yards? How involved REALLY is Walter, and is he a LOT more than the slightly crazy old man? When will they give Joshua Jackson more to do, and when will we start seeing a different side of HIM? Is the Observer a straight-up alien?

But yeah, it is very nice to see this starting to pay off... I was getting very annoyed at how "in the dark" we were being left!

[killerleft]

Here is the article (http://www.reuters.com/article/televisionNews/idUSTRE54408V20090505) on Fringe being renewed for next season.

Also, the internet geeks are all aflutter because Clint Howard told the plot (http://www.geeksugar.com/3120250) of the new Star Trek film in last night's episode. Fun stuff!!!

-Jason "I am so glad that faithful watching of Fringe is really starting to pay off!!" Evans

I googled Clint Howard to check on his bio, and found out that he must be one of the more prolific actors in history! Can he relieve himself?

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0397212/

[Lord Ash]

Yeah, Clint Howard is in EVERYTHING:)

Can I ask; does anyone else wish that Fringe would start each episode with a little "season so far" recap or something? I have found that I am forgetting a lot of things... I know that might be somewhat cheesy, because then they are sort of giving away what is important, but I for one need it.

Also... man they better give Joshua Jackson a lot more to do. I liked the "him making his own device" bit (although it was fantastically cheesy) and they need more of this:)

[Cormac]

Yeah, Clint Howard is in EVERYTHING:)

Can I ask; does anyone else wish that Fringe would start each episode with a little "season so far" recap or something? I have found that I am forgetting a lot of things... I know that might be somewhat cheesy, because then they are sort of giving away what is important, but I for one need it.

Also... man they better give Joshua Jackson a lot more to do. I liked the "him making his own device" bit (although it was fantastically cheesy) and they need more of this:)

Agree on both parts. With the multiple hiatuses (is that a word?) that lasted a few weeks each, I could use the recaps too. I have found that Fringepedia.net has some nice info on themes/plots/characters that I find quite useful if I'm trying to remember where I saw that person/thing before. And I too hope Jackson gets more screen time and I really enjoyed the record digitizing thingy! Cheesy, but a nice touch!

[Lord Ash]

I'll post more tomorrow, but holy cow, the last shot of Fringe was, in my opinion, one of the most interesting and edgy shots in television history.

Interesting indeed...

[riverside6]

very very interesting episode and chilling ending

[killerleft]

Yow! Those last two episodes were mindblowing. Would love to say more, but don't want to risk spoiling it for anyone!

[BlueDevilBaby]

My dvr cut off the last 15 or so minutes because of Idol. I saw up to bandage man getting cut in half. Please, someone pm me what happened after that. I'm going nuts even more after reading your posts.

[Pacer]

The episode should be available online at fox.com to catch the last 15 min...

[Cormac]

So, ummm when does season 2 start??? A great finale to a great season! Are we allowed to discuss spoilers yet???

[Lord Ash]

One no-spoiler note... I was a bit upset at the fact that Nemoy was only in the show for ohhhh about three seconds. However, I can only assume he will be in it a lot more next season (IIRC it starts in fall.)

They better have a recap!!!!

[killerleft]

I'd like to read that issue!

[Ignatius07]

When can we talk about the finale?

[JasonEvans]

When can we talk about the finale?

I am still 24 hours away from watching the finale, but at this point there is nothing stopping the rest of you from talking about it. I will not be reading this thread until I see the finale but will chime in then.

--Jason "fabulous show-- some real payoffs lately for sticking with it early in the season" Evans

[killerleft]

The World Trade Center shot after William Bell's Cheshire Cat grin faded away was an instant classic.

I'm still trying to digest all the possibilities now that the alternate world has been revealed - not to mention the fact that Walter's son Peter died when he was seven. The first thing that comes to mind is who else, besides Peter, might be from the Other Side?

I don't know how many of us noticed that the NY Post in the WTC office proclaimed Len Bias as the MVP as Boston swept the NBA Finals, or ex-prez JFK was still alive! I had to freeze the replay to be able to read it.

[riverside6]

did not catch the Len Bias blurb, very cool

[OZZIE4DUKE]

The World Trade Center shot after William Bell's Cheshire Cat grin faded away was an instant classic.

I'm still trying to digest all the possibilities now that the alternate world has been revealed - not to mention the fact that Walter's son Peter died when he was seven. The first thing that comes to mind is who else, besides Peter, might be from the Other Side?

I don't know how many of us noticed that the NY Post in the WTC office proclaimed Len Bias as the MVP as Boston swept the NBA Finals, or ex-prez JFK was still alive! I had to freeze the replay to be able to read it.
Didn't see those headlines, but I did notice Obama was moving into the NEW White House.

Loved seeing the twin Trade Towers again!

[Ignatius07]

did not catch the Len Bias blurb, very cool

I only caught this on a webshot the next day, but isn't it a little ridiculous that Bias would be Finals MVP in 2009, 23 years after he was drafted? He would be 45 right now.

Anyway I think the alternate reality can be very interesting, though their initial treatment was a bit banal (JFK's alive, Bias is alive, Twin Towers never fell) so I hope it's more nuanced next season. Obviously the most interesting storyline will be how our-world Peter died and how other-world Peter was stolen/taken by Walter to replace dead Peter in our world.

[dpslaw]

Near the end of "The Arrival," Walter recounts to Peter a story about the observer rescuing the two of them from an icy lake following a car crash. Perhaps Peter actually died at that time.

[JasonEvans]

Near the end of "The Arrival," Walter recounts to Peter a story about the observer rescuing the two of them from an icy lake following a car crash. Perhaps Peter actually died at that time.

Ooooh, I like that. Although, in the season finale, Walter spoke about Peter being sick as a child.

While it was fun and cool to see the alternate reality, it is tremendously logically inconsistent. We are supposed to think that big things can be different (Len Bias never dies, 9-11 never happens) but people are still the same (recall that we saw Olivia's alternate world office and it contained most of the same people). That is just ridiculous.

I wonder if we will learn about the alternate world Walter -- the one who had his perfectly healthy son Peter stolen from him. I wonder what happened to the alternate world version of William Bell. Is there a David Robert Jones in the other reality and what is he up to there? And why is William Bell hanging out in the alternate world. Is there something about it that is better than our world?

--Jason "great show though. I enjoy where we have gone and am looking forward to where it goes next" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Fox just announced that it is moving Fringe to Thursdays at 9pm starting in the fall. This means that Fringe will be going up against Grey's Anatomy, The Office/30 Rock, and CSI. Are you kidding me?!?!?!?

My wife was already lukewarm on Fringe. Up against Grey's it has no shot at all of getting even a tiny female audience.

I don't think CSI matters as no one under the age of 87 watches CSI and the other CBs procedural dramas while Fringe is designed to skew fairly young.

I suspect that Office/30 Rock could be a problem though as Fringe has a fairly upscale and educated audience which is the same audience that goes for the very funny NBC comedies. Hmmmm.

--Jason "I'll have my DVR and Tivo working overtime this fall, that's for sure!" Evans

[Cormac]

Fox just announced that it is moving Fringe to Thursdays at 9pm starting in the fall. This means that Fringe will be going up against Grey's Anatomy, The Office/30 Rock, and CSI. Are you kidding me?!?!?!?

My wife was already lukewarm on Fringe. Up against Grey's it has no shot at all of getting even a tiny female audience.

I don't think CSI matters as no one under the age of 87 watches CSI and the other CBs procedural dramas while Fringe is designed to skew fairly young.

I suspect that Office/30 Rock could be a problem though as Fringe has a fairly upscale and educated audience which is the same audience that goes for the very funny NBC comedies. Hmmmm.

--Jason "I'll have my DVR and Tivo working overtime this fall, that's for sure!" Evans

This move scares me. I have seen every episode of CSI, but I do not enjoy it nearly as much as I used to, especially without Grissom. But I will watch it to the end, as I'm sure a lot of loyalists will. Grey's is still pulling in a lot of viewers. I have never watched it, but I know a lot do. I'm guessing a lot of people will be Tivo-ing Fringe, which isn't exactly great for ratings/advertisers. I really hope this doesn't kill it. Darn you Fox!!! Anyone know why they moved it from Tuesdays? I know the Mentalist had fantastic ratings in the same time slot, but its not like things will get easier on Thursdays! Does Fox think Fringe is good enough to compete in the prime time slot of the week? At least Fringe will have a pretty good lead-in with Bones (btw, I was NOT a fan of the Bones season finale!).

[Lord Ash]

Whelp, that should just about wrap it up for Fringe!

Man, that sucks. They will not be able to compete in that slot.

[pfrduke]

Apparently Agent Francis will no longer be in the show (as the actor informed the world via his Facebook page).

http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/35387121.html#cutid1

This was picked up on Entertainment Weekly as well.

[Lord Ash]

I would be totally fine with this, to be frank... I find Charlie to be very, very weak and a bit boring.

[JasonEvans]

This will allow them to bring on someone knew who can be a bit more of a skeptic. One of the things that really worked on XFiles was Scully always looking for a logical answer to what was happening and being reluctant to accept the supernatural every time.

I am surprised they are bringing in another female as I think the show needs some intimidating bulk every now and then. I guess they will let Peter carry the weight in that department.

If they were going to get rid of Charlie, they should have killed him off or done something else dramatic with his character.

--Jason "as an aside, I am certain that Olivia will encounter the alternate universe version of Mark Valley (aka: John Scott)" Evans

[A-Tex Devil]

--Jason "as an aside, I am certain that Olivia will encounter the alternate universe version of Mark Valley (aka: John Scott)" Evans

Don't know about that. Valley is cast as the lead in another Fox show based on a graphic novel -- Human Target, I think.

That doesn't necessarily prevent him from reappearing on Fringe, but being the lead in another show seems to make it less likely. (It's not like Sonya Walger or Garret Dillahunt who seem to be on every show on television, but are peripheral/supporting in all of them).

[Cormac]

http://www.tvguidemagazine.com/news/fringes-kirk-acevedo-was-not-fired-1215.html

So Charlie may not be gone after all.... And we may have seen the Charlie from the other world??? Did anyone notice/pick up on this during the season? I certainly missed it. Anyway, there apparently are many layers to this story, just like the show. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Ignatius07]

This will allow them to bring on someone knew who can be a bit more of a skeptic. One of the things that really worked on XFiles was Scully always looking for a logical answer to what was happening and being reluctant to accept the supernatural every time.

I am surprised they are bringing in another female as I think the show needs some intimidating bulk every now and then. I guess they will let Peter carry the weight in that department.

I do think they realized they needed some more intra-office tension. They quickly killed off that DC guy that Olivia had nailed on sexual harassment charges, and Broyles - who started off the season as somewhat of a nemesis for Olivia - is now almost completely a "good guy"/friend of the Olivia/Peter/Walter team.

Where did you see they're bringing in a female?

[JasonEvans]

Quote from JJ about what is coming on Fringe--

“Season 2 is getting to know the enemy. Season one is about getting to know that there is an enemy, and getting to know each other.”

--Jason "I get the feeling he has planned out quite a bit of the story-- as he did in Lost... that is a very good thing" Evans

[Cormac]

Quote from JJ about what is coming on Fringe--

“Season 2 is getting to know the enemy. Season one is about getting to know that there is an enemy, and getting to know each other.”

--Jason "I get the feeling he has planned out quite a bit of the story-- as he did in Lost... that is a very good thing" Evans

Thanks Jason! Is this from a recent interview he has done? If so, I'd like to read the whole thing if you happen to have a link handy. Also, I agree about the planning ahead thing. It seems like J.J. has done very well in this department, especially when his projects are given time to actually develop. Love the man and I'd love to see him direct an episode of Fringe in the future (assuming he could squeeze it in!).

[JasonEvans]

Thanks Jason! Is this from a recent interview he has done? If so, I'd like to read the whole thing if you happen to have a link handy. Also, I agree about the planning ahead thing. It seems like J.J. has done very well in this department, especially when his projects are given time to actually develop. Love the man and I'd love to see him direct an episode of Fringe in the future (assuming he could squeeze it in!).

It was from an article in Entertainment Weekly a few weeks back. The article was pretty short and was mostly about Leonard Nimoy appearing in the finale (verrrrry briefly). There were not many JJ quotes and that one was the only one worth mentioning.

--Jason "I don't think JJ will find time to direct Fringe... he's got a lot of other stuff on his plate right now" Evans

[JasonEvans]

We had one for last season, so we might as well have one for this season.

I am a bit disappointed that, after Olivia meeting Spock... I mean William Bell... at the end of season 1, we have not seen or heard anything about that meeting since then. I mean, we have all these allusions to it with the bad guys trying to stop Olivia from remembering it (or something like that), but nada in terms of plot substance. It is kinda frustrating.

I like Peter Bishop getting more comfortable and involved in being a pseudo-FBI agent. I also enjoyed the tiny peek into a bit of his Baghdad background. I hope we get more of Peter's back story (and, of course, more about the fact that he is actually from the alternate universe).

I don't mind that they are taking their time to play out the story line with Charlie being dead and a morphed bad guy taking his place. I guess it is ok, though I hope we find out that the bad dude killed Charlie's wife or something to explain how this alien being could be prancing around pretending to be Charlie without anyone else noticing. I know we don't follow Charlie's life all that much, but I don't think the shape-shifting also involved memory transference, so there is no way the shape-shifter is convincing folks who are around Charlie every day that he is now Charlie. By the way, with his shape-shifting device taken from him, the bad guy will have to remain in Charlie form forever now, which allows Kirk Acevedo to continue to be on the show. Kinda tricky considering that Kirk tweeted or facebooked last summer that Charlie was being killed off leading everyone to think that Kirk was out of a job.

My wife gets a little frustrated at the "filler" episodes -- like the one with the mutated kid who was living underneath the corn field. She says these are like the "monster" episodes from XFiles that don't really take the overall plot anywhere. I tend to agree. The most recent episode, with the former soldiers who exploded in train stations, was a filler episode for the most part except for a few strange ramblings at the end and a look at The Observer studying surveillance pictures of Walter. Hmmmm.

I am betting that they have an overall story they are telling, but they are dolling it out in very small pieces because they have to let the series live for a long time. I am not a big fan of this, but it is the economics of series TV. Still, this is what killed the X-Files, it is what makes Heroes almost unwatchable, and I shudder to think what Lost would be if it was following the same path. JJ needs to go to Fox and tell them that Fringe (like Lost) will end in 2 or 3 seasons and get a commitment to carry the story to that point. That would make me very happy :)

Anyway, what are the rest of you thinking?

--Jason "The new time slot is a real pain in the rear for Fringe, but the ratings have been ok" Evans

[bigj4194]

I actually like how they have set up this season. They have set it up that Olivia doesn't remember and has to get her memory back. If you watch the previews for this week's episode you see that Olivia is supposed to remember what she saw with Spock/William Bell/Nemroy.

I like how Peter is turning out too. Though I still love Walter. He is potentially my favorite character from any TV show. I think they are doing a good job of making him seem slightly more sane with his eccentricities still intact.

I love the ending of last week's episode with the Observer playing a major role. I'm quite looking forward to that story line. Hopefully they will explain the written language that the observer was writing in in S01E04.

As for Charlie...I'm not sure what to think. I really liked his character and I'm not sure if I'm happy or sad to see a very different story line develop.

As a side note I was surfing the web recently with Fringe on the mind and came across FringePedia...basically a Fringe encyclopedia that has some cool stuff on it. It has blow-by-blow episode recaps and some "analysis" but it also has some cool things. One of which is the decoding of the Glyph code. Apparently every episode the glyphs shown at the commercials actually mean something. http://fringepedia.net/wiki/Glyphs_codehttp://fringepedia.net/wiki/Glyphs_code
Its a fun site to look at and see what other people are thinking.

Overall I'm really excited for this season and can't wait to see what they do with it.

[bigj4194]

PS-I'm glad we are getting this thread up again.

[JasonEvans]

Finally!!! The conversation with William Bell!!

Well, now we know that this season is largely going to be a battle with the shape-shifters. Ok, I can live with that.

I was a bit disappointed that they did not put it together that Charlie was the shape shifter very quickly. The moment that Walter said the body of the dead nurse was not the shape shifter, they should have known that Charlie was the shape-shifter because he was the one who shot and killed the nurse and claimed that she was the shape-shifter. Duuuh!

Kinda sad that Charlie did not escape and get to coninute as one of the lead bad guys.

I hope they explain why the shape-shifter leader got his head sawed off. The image of his head repairing was certainly cool though.

--Jason "next week looks like a meaningless 'monster' episode-- ahh well" Evans

[Fish80]

Fringe continues to be one of my favorite shows.

Whose body are they using with the shape shifters head?

Is Peter a shape shifter? The lady who sees shape shifters saw a glow around him. I suspect Peter has some power yet to be revealed.

Where is Olivia's sister? Have we seen her yet this season?

Did Spock er Willam Bell really plan for Olivia to leak the location?

To play out the story line, they may have to let the door open and the mercury eating soldiers cross over.

[JasonEvans]

Is Peter a shape shifter? The lady who sees shape shifters saw a glow around him. I suspect Peter has some power yet to be revealed.

Where is Olivia's sister? Have we seen her yet this season?

Did Spock er Willam Bell really plan for Olivia to leak the location?

She saw a glow around Peter because he is actually from the alternate universe. We learned that at the end of last season. The real Peter died as a baby and Walter crossed over so he could grab the alternate Peter to raise as his child. The LSD woman can see folks from the alternate universe so she saw something usual about Peter.

I am glad they continue to make allusions to Peter's unique situation and I expect this to be a significant story line going forward. I want to know what happened to the alternate universe Walter when his baby was stolen and I think it could be interesting to see how Peter feels about the "war" when he finds out he is really from "the other side."

Olivia's sister simply got dropped as a character. They can bring her back but I think they decided not to persue a romantic relationship with her and Peter so they wrote her out for now.

I doubt William Bell wanted Olivia to leak the location of the head. After all, the Shape Changers were supposed to kill Olivia to stop her from remembering what Bell told her.

-Jason "Thursday night is just murder on the DVR at my house-- it is a testament to Fringe that I have already seen it" Evans

[DevilFan]

Fringe continues to be one of my favorite shows.

Whose body are they using with the shape shifters head?

Is Peter a shape shifter? The lady who sees shape shifters saw a glow around him. I suspect Peter has some power yet to be revealed.

Where is Olivia's sister? Have we seen her yet this season?

Did Spock er Willam Bell really plan for Olivia to leak the location?

To play out the story line, they may have to let the door open and the mercury eating soldiers cross over.
I have been watching Fringe since the begininng and for now it is still keeping me intrigued. However, the shape shifting soldiers is a bit of a stretch. It also seems that Fringe is giving the Astrid character(Jasika Nicole) more time on-screen. I really like her and hope to see them expand the character more!

[budwom]

Finally!!! The conversation with William Bell!!

Well, now we know that this season is largely going to be a battle with the shape-shifters. Ok, I can live with that.

I was a bit disappointed that they did not put it together that Charlie was the shape shifter very quickly. The moment that Walter said the body of the dead nurse was not the shape shifter, they should have known that Charlie was the shape-shifter because he was the one who shot and killed the nurse and claimed that she was the shape-shifter. Duuuh!

Kinda sad that Charlie did not escape and get to coninute as one of the lead bad guys.

I hope they explain why the shape-shifter leader got his head sawed off. The image of his head repairing was certainly cool though.

--Jason "next week looks like a meaningless 'monster' episode-- ahh well" Evans

If Charlie's greasy, alien-type hair didn't give him away, nothing would.

[huied]

Did anyone watch the show last night?

At around 14 minutes in, I swear there was a shot of West Campus when they were supposedly showing Harvard. Without spoiling anything, this was right after Walter gets back from Seattle.

Can anyone verify or disprove? Just thought it was interesting.

[Pacer]

I was just watching online and exclaimed, "That's Duke!" I had to go back to see exactly what the shot was, but it was instinctual. The shot was looking south towards the clocktower.

Then I came here to see if anyone else noticed it... So, I back you up, huied.

[Lord Ash]

Hah! I immediately thought the same thing. Was that it?

Ah yes! Home sweeeet home! Is that Harrison Barnes in the foreground?!?!

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/2007/fringet.png (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/fringet.png/)

[Udaman]

Charlie and the Shape Shifter (which somehow makes me think of the umpa lumpas) was really, really dumb, and defies the logic they created earlier.

So the shape shifter finds a person...kills them. Then looks like that other person. Right? Then to switch again, they take the three pronged thing, stick it in another person and their body then looks like that new person, right? This is what happened at the beginning of Season 2. So, there is no "body" of the shape shifted person, except when they are first killed.

In other words, when the soldier killed the nurse, he dumped her body somewhere, then morphed from the bald guy to the nurse. But at the end, when "Charlie" kills the nurse and everyone runs up - there is the nurse's body. How did that happen? It's not possible. The soldier would have killed Charlie, then morphed from the nurse's form to Charlie's form, leaving no body of the nurse.

Did anyone else catch this? It's terrible writing and storyline, that tries to neatly make you shocked. Plus, the nurse was shot and kept running at the beginning, yet nobody thought to ask that? Plus, there would have been two bodies of the nurse (the first one located somewhere, and the 2nd - which couldn't have been there).

I know it's minor, but to me that really ruined the episode, and the story-line.

[DevilBen02]

So the shape shifter finds a person...kills them. Then looks like that other person. Right? Then to switch again, they take the three pronged thing, stick it in another person and their body then looks like that new person, right? This is what happened at the beginning of Season 2. So, there is no "body" of the shape shifted person, except when they are first killed.

In other words, when the soldier killed the nurse, he dumped her body somewhere, then morphed from the bald guy to the nurse. But at the end, when "Charlie" kills the nurse and everyone runs up - there is the nurse's body. How did that happen? It's not possible. The soldier would have killed Charlie, then morphed from the nurse's form to Charlie's form, leaving no body of the nurse.

It makes sense if the soldier had stashed the nurse's body and then dragged it out of its hiding place (and stashed Charlie's body) before Dunham and Peter showed up.

[BD80]

It makes sense if the soldier had stashed the nurse's body and then dragged it out of its hiding place (and stashed Charlie's body) before Dunham and Peter showed up.

This guy would really screw up a game of Clue

[JasonEvans]

It makes sense if the soldier had stashed the nurse's body and then dragged it out of its hiding place (and stashed Charlie's body) before Dunham and Peter showed up.

Yup, that is exactly what I thought happened.

-Jason

[hamster]

I was just watching online and exclaimed, "That's Duke!" I had to go back to see exactly what the shot was, but it was instinctual. The shot was looking south towards the clocktower.

Then I came here to see if anyone else noticed it... So, I back you up, huied.

Definitely Duke. Maybe it actually means something? Jared Harris (David Robert Jones) went to Duke.

[dpslaw]

I thought I saw another scene from West Campus this week. Am I imagining it?

[JasonEvans]

Fox is launching a major promotional pitch (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118011366.html?categoryid=14&cs=1&nid=4749) for Fringe. Good for the show and a sign of the network's commitment to it.

-Jason "the ratings have been bad lately" Evans

[bigj4194]

Anyone else really like the multiple observer episode? I thought this episode was fantastic as well as explaining some of the purpose of the observers. Every episode I watch, I like this show even more.

[JasonEvans]

Anyone else really like the multiple observer episode? I thought this episode was fantastic as well as explaining some of the purpose of the observers. Every episode I watch, I like this show even more.

Ditto-- I am a big fan and thought the Obsever episode was good, but not great.

As I posted a few days ago, Fox tried to make a big promotional push for this episode. By showcasing the Observers, it was clearly going to be a somewhat significant "mythology" episode.

But, it did not really work. The show got just under 5.9 million viewers and pulled a 2.0 in the 18-49 demographic, which was actually down about 10% from last week.

There can now be little doubt that moving Fringe to 9pm on Thursday (against CSI, Grey's Anatomy, The Office, and 30 Rock) was a really bad move for the show. It simply cannot take that kind of competition. I am not sure any unconventional show (like a sci-fi mystery) could handle that kind of timeslot.

All us Fringe fans need to hope that either Fox moves it to a better slot (not Fridays!!!!) or that Fox just decides the show is good and they are going to stick with it regardless of the ratings. The bottom line though is that the show is most assuredly in the danger zone when it comes to cancellation after this season.

One other thing to consider-- the studio that produces Fringe will have about 45 episodes in the can at the end of this year. While the ideal number of episodes to have for syndication of a show is more like 100, it is not impossible to get a syndication deal with 60 episodes finished. The studio may cut Fox's costs on the show for the third season, therefore making the show attractive to Fox even if the ratings are poor, in the hope that by getting 60+ episodes the studio can earn a lot more money by syndicating Fringe. Does that make sense?

I guess what I am trying to say is that Fringe is in trouble, but not really dire trouble... at least not yet.

--Jason "I need to check those DVR numbers again. Fringe is one of the biggest time-shifted shows around because so many folks are watching Grey's or The Office and DVRing Fringe" Evans

[BlueDevilBaby]

Can you add me to the DVR number?:D I like the show and hope it sticks around.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Can you add me to the DVR number?:D I like the show and hope it sticks around.
Me too, and I don't always watch it in the 24 hour window that was discussed earlier (in another thread?).

[bigj4194]

Anyone watch last night's Fringe? I thought it was one of the best episodes yet. Lots of plot development with the characters from the "other side" as well as development of Bell and Walter. I thought it was a fantastic episode.

I know the viewership was lower than wanted but it has a hard time competing with the other shows:

CSI (CBS)
17.1
The Office (NBC)
9.2
Fringe (Fox)
6.3
Grey’s Anatomy (ABC)
4.9 (repeat)
Supernatural (The CW)
1.4 (repeat)

[BlueDevilBaby]

Anyone watch last night's Fringe? I thought it was one of the best episodes yet. Lots of plot development with the characters from the "other side" as well as development of Bell and Walter. I thought it was a fantastic episode.

I know the viewership was lower than wanted but it has a hard time competing with the other shows:

CSI (CBS)
17.1
The Office (NBC)
9.2
Fringe (Fox)
6.3
Grey’s Anatomy (ABC)
4.9 (repeat)
Supernatural (The CW)
1.4 (repeat)

No, but I sure will be tonight. Friday is my night to catch up on tv.

[JasonEvans]

Recent Fringe ratings--



Episode 18-49 Total viewers
Date Rating in Millions
10/15 2.2 6.0
11/05 1.7 4.9
11/12 2.2 5.9
11/19 2.0 5.9
12/04 2.5 6.86
12/10 2.3 6.32

The show is struggling. I have not yet seen last night's episode, but will over the weekend. I am pleased to hear it was a "mythology" episode as opposed to being just a random creepy monster episode.

-Jason "the buzz from Fox is that Fringe will survive-- the network knows it is just in a horrible timeslot" Evans

[bigj4194]

The show is struggling. I have not yet seen last night's episode, but will over the weekend. I am pleased to hear it was a "mythology" episode as opposed to being just a random creepy monster episode.

-Jason "the buzz from Fox is that Fringe will survive-- the network knows it is just in a horrible timeslot" Evans


You're signature says it all...Fringe just can't compete on Thursday nights at 9PM...they should put it back on tuesdays where it was doing well...or move it to wednesday when there isn't much on.

[Lord Ash]

Back from the dead!

Has anyone been keeping up on this show? The last few episodes of the season were fantastic, and the season finale was GREAT... some REALLY daring story telling, and a chance to fundamentally alter the show next season in a way that is both very natural and very intriguing as far as the potential...

Anyone still watching it?

[JasonEvans]

I saw it and LOVED the finale. The moment after the grenade went off when Olivia and Dr. Bell went into the theater, I said to my wife, "that's the other Olivia."

Very cool ending!

This is better plotting and storylines than The X-Files but without quite as good acting or as miuch chemistry as DD and Gillian Anderson had. Still, I am loving this show right now!

I am sad to see William Bell/Leonard Nimoy leave. He played a small role, but it added immensely to the show's cool-factor. Nimoy has 100% retired from acting and says he will not appear on Fringe ever again. Pity, there is a lot more they could have done with that character.

Fox has picked up season 3, it was touch and go for a little while, but the show seems to be on solid footing right now.

--Jason "eager to see hwo they resolve Olivia's cliffhanger - and eager to see how Walter deals with all the wrongs he has done to the alt-universe" Evans

[Lord Ash]

Ah! Jason, I am glad you've been watching!

I too love the ending... I mean, we knew that Olivia was the AltOlivia, but still...

I think they have a very interesting possibility here... to effectively replace a main character with the same person. I sort of hope they spend a LONG time with the AltOlivia in place... let her work cases as she fits in, and let her grow and change a bit... meet her sister, meet the niece she never had... it is still, sort of, the same character, yet at the same time with a whole new element. Of course, she doesn't know Peter (in fact, she assumes they are a couple) and it will be very strange because their relationship will begin with the WRONG Olivia in place!

And then, to top it off, our REAL Olivia is clearly going to be driven crazy in the Alt world, so when she DOES get back into the show regularly, she will not be the same woman we knew...

I was wondering how they would handle Nemoy... I suppose they did need to get rid of him. I agree with you, he was a nice addition. I enjoyed his and Walters interactions... speaking of Walter, man John Noble is just SO darn good, he makes up for a little bit of the lacking acting chops of the other two main characters.

Really enjoy the alternate world touches, and how devastated it was... puts it in a whole new perspective...

A little nod to the nerds: you notice the comic books in frames on the walls of the place that Peter went? The Dark Knight Returns (Frank Miller) cover, but with Superman in place, and a Justice League comic with, among other people, Gambit from the X-Men in the group... plus I think a Superman comic (can't remember which...) with the Batman logo... lots of neat nods to the nerds among us:)

A really daring ending and, if they do it right, a really daring way to revamp a show without a jarring, nonsensical change.

[JasonEvans]

Really enjoy the alternate world touches, and how devastated it was... puts it in a whole new perspective...

Yup, that was a huge part of what we learned. Apparently, when Walter crossed over for the frist time and stole Peter, it ruptured the fabric of the alt-universe in some way and there have been "Fringe events" happening on a massive scale over there. I froze my HD-TV when Peter was flying over New York and the computer in his helicopter was reporting on the Fringe events. I read the detail on the "New York Triangle." It had swallowed 7 light aricraft and several boats. Then we get to Madison Square Garden which had been encased in amber to stop a Fringe event from spreading. 10,000 people inside MSG had been encased in amber too and the computer tells us that they have just been declared legally dead. Later on, we saw a massive amber enclosure with bodies frozen inside it at Harvard with a sign outside that read something like, "Gone but not forgotten," with the names of the folks who were trapped in the amber.



A little nod to the nerds: you notice the comic books in frames on the walls of the place that Peter went? The Dark Knight Returns (Frank Miller) cover, but with Superman in place, and a Justice League comic with, among other people, Gambit from the X-Men in the group... plus I think a Superman comic (can't remember which...) with the Batman logo... lots of neat nods to the nerds among us:)

There was a comic book cover for the Red Lantern and the Red Hornet... not Green. The Superman comic with a Batman logo was for The Death of Superman... instead it is The Death of Batman.

http://fringepedia.net/w/images/thumb/5/54/SamWeiss.jpg/280px-SamWeiss.jpg

If you want a clue as to where the show is going next season, I am betting we are going to see a lot more of Sam Weiss (shown above), the bowling alley manager dude who has been Olivia's shrink (at Nina Sharp's recommendation). Wanna know why?

Well, the Glyphs that show up before every commerical spell out messages. Usually, the message relates specifically to that episode. For example, they spell out thinks like MEMORY or WINDOW. For all of season one and the beginning of season two, the glyphs spelled out simple words (http://fringepedia.net/wiki/Glyphs_code)that did not make any sense strung together. The word always just related to that one individual episode.

But, the second half of season two, the glyphs started telling us something. The past few episodes have spelled out...

FATHER
REVEAL
PETERS
ENERGY
SECRET
BRIDGE
HEART
RETURN
WEAPON

Then, the season finale spelled out the word WEISS.

Plus, in the alt-Harvard leb, there was a phrase written on the chalkboard. It said "A DEMONS TWIST RUSTS" on it. This is an anagram for "DON'T TRUST SAM WEISS". If Walternate does not trust Sam Weiss, I am betting that he will be instrumental in helping to find and return the regular Olivia to our world.

Anyway, this show is my new Lost, my new passion ;)

--Jason "JJ is da' man!" Evans

[JasonEvans]

The Harvard quaranatined area with people frozen in amber--

http://www.fringefiles.com/gallery/albums/episodes/222/normal_Fringe222_279.JPG

The sign outside (http://www.fringefiles.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=109&pos=281) read, "Neither dead, nor forgotten."

--Jason

[Lord Ash]

Hey!

Yep, I saw the Harvard one, and I loved the MSG thing about them just being declared legally dead; it gives the alt world a real feeling of a history. Very neat stuff. Does the amber stuff relate to the frozen people in the bus from way back in season 1? Very cool detail about the people being neither dead or alive...

Are we supposed to recognize the guy who was burned to a crisp on the bridge in Central Park...? Does he have a modern day equivalent?

AMAZING find on the glyphs! I knew they meant something, but I had no idea what... I saw the writing in Walternates lab, but didn't figure out what it meant... good stuff. I would hope we find more about that guy; he has been kept so "mysterious" it was bugging me. I wonder if AltOlivia will run into him...?

Thanks on the comics stuff; yeah, I should have recognized the Death of Superman cover! I knew it was familiar, but couldn't place it. I saw the Red Lantern bit, but missed the Red Hornet...

I totally agree about it being the new Lost. I feel like it has the potential for a lot of depth and interesting twists... it might not be quite as "smart" as Lost was at times, but still... a nice mix between "random" story episodes and "storyline" episodes, and these last few were great.

How long do you think we'll have AltOlivia in place of real Olivia? And how nuts do you think real Olivia will go? That was a pretty horrible end shot of her...

[A-Tex Devil]

I mentioned in another post how good this show has gotten -- I think in Flashforward.

Anyway, some thoughts:

1. Wasn't there a "freak of the week" episode in Season 1 where a whole busload of people were encased in amber? Nice call back, if so.

2. I hope the alt-Olivia storyline doesn't last much longer than shapeshifter-Charlie did. These people are too smart, and alt-Olivia too ignorant of our world, for this ruse to last more than a 3-4 episode arc.

3. Is the thought in alt-world that the only way to save it from the fringe events that are occurring is to destroy our world? I hope so, otherwise it's just pure evil/revenge. I don't like that motive as much. I like the idea of Walternate sacrificing the kid he just got to see again to save his world. Greater good and all...

4. So Walternate is the one who wrote that crazy book (the ZFT?). That's why the manuscripts were in his handwriting.

[JasonEvans]

1. Wasn't there a "freak of the week" episode in Season 1 where a whole busload of people were encased in amber? Nice call back, if so.

Yup, The episode was called The Ghost Network. This is sure starting to feel like a show where stuff has been plotted out quite a bit in advance. Stuff from early-mid season one is only beginning to be explained and becoming relevant now at the end of season two. Me like!!!

Here is an image of the amber bus from early in season one.

http://fringepedia.net/w/images/7/72/Passengers.png


2. I hope the alt-Olivia storyline doesn't last much longer than shapeshifter-Charlie did. These people are too smart, and alt-Olivia too ignorant of our world, for this ruse to last more than a 3-4 episode arc.

Agreed. The interesting thing will be to see if she can be won over a little bit to "our side." I suspect she will develop feelings for Peter too.


3. Is the thought in alt-world that the only way to save it from the fringe events that are occurring is to destroy our world? I hope so, otherwise it's just pure evil/revenge. I don't like that motive as much. I like the idea of Walternate sacrificing the kid he just got to see again to save his world. Greater good and all...

I think a lot of this is Walternate-driven. I could see him wanting revenge and being driven almost mad after losing his son the way he did. After all, we know that Walter's psyche is fragile, no reason to expect his counterpart in the other world to be perfectly sane.

Lets say Walter kidnapping Peter set off some ugly Fringe events in the alt world. Then, as the alt world attempts to understand what is going on, Walternate becomes the answer man and he grows in power. Heck, it is possible that he has been Defense Secretary with near unlimited powers for 10+ years. He formed the Fringe Division and strongarmed it into an extremely powerful organization that answers to no one but him.

This does not have to be everyone in the alt-universe being evil and conspiring to kill our universe, it merely needs to be Walter wanting to do that.


4. So Walternate is the one who wrote that crazy book (the ZFT?). That's why the manuscripts were in his handwriting.

I totally missed that. When did they talk about that in the finale?

-Jason "we've got some decent Fringe conversation going... now we need to get more folks following this show!!" Evans

[A-Tex Devil]

I totally missed that. When did they talk about that in the finale?

-Jason "we've got some decent Fringe conversation going... now we need to get more folks following this show!!" Evans

At some point they mentioned his book and I believe they showed it as the ZFT. I believe it was cited as why he was so influential in alt-world May have been in first part of finale. Can't remember exactly the context. Sepinwall/TWoP/AV Club may have a reference of it, and I'll see if I can dig it up.

[Lord Ash]

Hey guys,

Yeah, Walternate wrote the ZFT manual; I believe they said that last week, that Walternate had written the ZFT manifesto and it was a hugely famous text in the alt world.

About Walter being a bit... well, having a screw loose; remember, he had part of his memory (brain) removed by Bell, at his own request. That, I assume, is what sent him to the institution. I think that, since Bell died young in the alt world, Walternate never would have lost that part of his mind, and so he is not necessarily as mentally fragile as our Walter. Who knows... he might be awful scary powerful...

Do I get credit for mentioning the bus thing on the last page?:) Yeah, I really love when shows call back older stuff. Fringe is VERY good at it; they have made little references throughout the show to other episodes... I loved the use of the other-side typewriter, for example, that we haven't seen in a while...

I honestly think they could do the AltOlivia thing for a LONG time, if it is handled right... I mean, it IS Olivia, as far as her spirit and her personality and all! Maybe she doesn't have the same knowledge, but she does have some of it... after all, the worlds aren't totally different, and who knows what she studied... it just seems like it could be SO interesting if done carefully, allowing us to continue to get to know the main characters we know with one slight difference... and I think the potential for a truly crazy ourOlivia coming back is just so sweet... after all those years Walter spent locked up, it is wonderfully ironic that now it is Olivia who is locked up and likely to go mad...

Tex, I think that is the idea; the Alt world isn't evil... they see OUR world as these kidnapping jerks who have destroyed huge parts of their world... they see US as the bad guys. I don't think the writers will give in to some "We are good, they are evil" thing.

BTW, the actor who plays Charlie must be so happy to be back:)

Lord "Yeah, come on folks, get watching! Honestly it has been much more interestingly written than Lost was at the end, if you ask me... remember, it IS a JJ Abrams show!" Ash

[A-Tex Devil]

Yeah, Walternate wrote the ZFT manual; I believe they said that last week, that Walternate had written the ZFT manifesto and it was a hugely famous text in the alt world.


Or looking at it a bit differently, Walter with a full brain is a megalomaniacal, remorseless, unethical, sociopathic scientist willing to experiment on anything to prove his theories and test the boundaries of science (which would fall in line with his willingness to use his son to destroy alt-world).

Our Walter recognized this in himself in a moment of clarity and had those parts of his brain taken out, leading to his insanity, but giving him a bit more humanity.

Just a theory.

[Lord Ash]

Yep, and a VERY likely one... pre brain-removal Walter certainly seemed like a bit of a mad scientist...

[BD80]

Love the show and the comments on this board. Thanks to everyone for all of the detail and background. I particularly enjoyed the comic book covers reveal. Touches like that really add to the enjoyment. I recognied the amber and remembered the episode, but had forgotten that the amber contained a fringe episode. Does this mean that in a couple hundred thousand years from now a decendant of insects in the Altuniverse will create "Fringe Park?"

AltOlivia simply can't go undiscovered for long. Peter is a genius who has solved otherwise unsolvable mysteries. He and Olivia have too shared many intimate details about their lives and their romance is at such a sensitive point that he would undoubtedly notice. I suppose they could try it, shapeshifter Charlie got away with it. From a plot standpoint, I think they will have a couple interesting scenes which causes Peter to suspect, and then Olivia's niece makes an observation which reveals the deception.

The issue will become: can they trust AltOlivia? She will appear to want to help Walter and Peter to save the Alt universe and thus our universe, but she will keep secrets. She and Peter will get close, Peter will confuse his feelings for AltOlivia and Olivia, AltOlivia will die if she goes back, Peter is confused, AltOlivia makes a sacrifice to save Olivia, Olivia comes back altered - not the woman Peter remembers loving, AltOlivia didn't lie to him the way Olivia did when she knew Peter was from Alt-universe, Peter is confused.

The only certainty is they can't let Olivia and Peter get together with any measure of stability - it will kill the show.

Speaking of Big Bang Theory, I would love the characters to give "Fringe" a shout out the way they do "Serenity."

[JasonEvans]

Speaking of Big Bang Theory, I would love the characters to give "Fringe" a shout out the way they do "Serenity."

This week they gave a shout-out to The Good Wife...

...but that is a fellow CBS show. Serenity was not on TV when they gave it a shout out. The odds that CBS top comedy, Big Bang Theory, will plug a show on Fox are slim and none.

--Jason "we gotta get Fringe's ratings up!!" Evans

[Reddevil]

I read an interview with JJ Abrams yesterday. He said the altOlivia theme will permeate the first third of next season. My apologies, I cannot remember where I read it.

[Lord Ash]

Okay folks... thoughts on "Fringe?"

LOVED that Bubs was on it, playing the cabbie! Love that actor; just seems to create such a sense of empathy. I think he will stick around. Interesting that next weeks episode seems completely removed from the alt-world... they are just going to roll with it being a fairly normal "X-Files"y episode... very cool, actually:) I thought they would just ignore real Olivia, but interesting that they dealt with her straight out and got it out of the way in the first episode.

Anyway, I have to say, I enjoy "Fringe," and I am impressed that they really seem willing to mess with the fundamental elements of the show.

[Lord Ash]

Ahh, bringing the Fringe thread back! Good! The show has a few Duke connections, including using a shot of Duke campus and having a Duke grad play a bad guy!

Jason, curious to see what you say when you see the premier finally.

[JasonEvans]

I watched it last night. Pretty good episode.


LOVED that Bubs was on it, playing the cabbie! Love that actor; just seems to create such a sense of empathy. I think he will stick around.

I too think he will show up again. I figure he will be the person who helps the real Olivia remember who she really is. I was a bit surprised when they showed him driving away in a different direction at the end of the episode. I sorta thought they would show him following her and alt-Charlie as a sign that he wanted to stay involved in what was going on with her.. Hmmm. Still, they showed him watching Olivia for a reason. I have to think he will come back and play a role in the real Olivia's eventual escape from the alt-world.


Interesting that next weeks episode seems completely removed from the alt-world... they are just going to roll with it being a fairly normal "X-Files"y episode... very cool, actually:)

My bet is that we will see a couple episodes that feel like those X-File investigation episodes because they need to establish that alt-Olivia is fully immersed into real-Olivia's life. They are going to build on her relationship with Peter (heck, maybe she will actually fall in love with Peter) and the best way to do that is to have them together for several episodes before the truth comes out. It could be interesting to find alt-Olivia torn about her loyalties.

As an aside, I bet Walter is the one who figures out that alt-Olivia has come back with them. Peter won't believe him... at first.


I thought they would just ignore real Olivia, but interesting that they dealt with her straight out and got it out of the way in the first episode.

They have really set up some interesting storylines, that's for sure! I like the fact that we are going to get to see the real-Olivia doing stuff other than just being on the run or being questioned in the alt-universe. It will give us more glimpses into the alt-universe. It allows them to do more with her character over there. Clever plotting! I also like that alt-Broyles asked Walternate what the ultimate plan was for Olivia in the alt universe and Walternate did not answer. Something is up but we won't find out about it for a few episodes.

-Jason "I just wish this show had a bigger following-- it has a better constructed story than just about anything else on TV" Evans

[killerleft]

I'm wondering which William Bell is still living? And if the other one really died in a car accident. Ow, my head!

[JasonEvans]

I'm wondering which William Bell is still living? And if the other one really died in a car accident. Ow, my head!

Leonard Nimoy says he is 100% retired from acting and will not return to Fringe. I think he is not in the greatest health so I am inclined to believe him.

--Jason "pity, I think a lot more could have been done with William Bell" Evans

[aro24]

I haven't missed an episode yet and I am very intrigued by the plot lines that have been set up so far in season 2.
I am liking the "X-Files"y feel to the show....I still catch X-Files on a daily basis on Chiller network.

Great show to satisfy my sy-fy fix.

ARo24

[Lord Ash]

Another solid episode. Sure, some of the infinite possibilities the guy was analyzing would require knowledge of stuff he didn't actually know, but whatever, it was still fun:) I really like that they have tackled a few episodes in the altworld, and even the little touches, like having the background of the opening credits being red rather than blue. Honestly, I wish they would go a whole season with the Olivias all switched up, but I don't think they will:)

[Lord Ash]

Still enjoying Fringe, cancellation rumors be damned!

The whole alt-world thing is holding up, and doubly interesting because they are maintaining the basic premise (Olivia solving events) in BOTH places, while still having the fun of the "OMG it is a different world!" Having said that, the alt-Astrid is a bit silly, but still...

The ending, regarding the towers, actually made me just a wee bit weepy... I know that they have been shown a lot, but it has never really been addressed...

I did think it was interesting that they seemed to use the same tech in this last episode (about the amber and the bank robbery) that I think we saw a season or two ago in a similar bank robbery in the real world... no?

Let me ask, to anyone watching (Jason?) The third guy in the Fringe division trio of Olivia, Charlie, and the other guy... is he someone we should know from the real world?

[Exiled_Devil]

Still enjoying Fringe, cancellation rumors be damned!

The whole alt-world thing is holding up, and doubly interesting because they are maintaining the basic premise (Olivia solving events) in BOTH places, while still having the fun of the "OMG it is a different world!" Having said that, the alt-Astrid is a bit silly, but still...

The ending, regarding the towers, actually made me just a wee bit weepy... I know that they have been shown a lot, but it has never really been addressed...

I did think it was interesting that they seemed to use the same tech in this last episode (about the amber and the bank robbery) that I think we saw a season or two ago in a similar bank robbery in the real world... no?

Let me ask, to anyone watching (Jason?) The third guy in the Fringe division trio of Olivia, Charlie, and the other guy... is he someone we should know from the real world?

That walk-through-walls technology was used by the alternate fringe folks on our side, in order to snatch something from safe deposit boxes.

Alt-Astrid is supposed to be super-functional autistic. Either that, or a mentat.

[JasonEvans]

The scientist who is working with Walternate to get Olivia to moved through universes is the same scientist who works for Massive Dynamic on our side.

I have not seen Lincoln Lee (the third member of the alt-Fringe team) in our universe. My bet is that he will show up at some point.

By the way, interesting to note that The Observer has been showing up in the alt-world too.

I am still loving the show and really enjoying the way they have prolonged the switch between the two Olivias. Last week's episode was particularly good with Peter playing a larger role by being part of Olivia's mind. It is now clear that she has realized that she is in the wrong place and I am sure we will see her try to get back to her side in coming episodes. One thing I wonder about -- when she moved between the two universes last episode, what kept pulling her back to the alt-world? I would think that her body would want to stay on our side.

Ahh well. Whatever. It is working for me, that's for sure.

--Jason "I just hope that, if Fox decides to cancel it, they give JJ and company time to wrap the show up as they should" Evans

[dpslaw]

Apparently, Fringe is being exiled to Friday night. Sure hope this doesn't mean the handwriting is on the wall.

[JasonEvans]

Apparently, Fringe is being exiled to Friday night. Sure hope this doesn't mean the handwriting is on the wall.

According to this EW article (http://insidetv.ew.com/2010/11/22/fox-execs-on-american-idol-fringe-moves-its-the-right-moment/)--


Fox Entertainment President Kevin Reilly said he hopes fans don’t think he’s putting the show out to pasture. ”We are not killing the show. Over the last week, over 45 percent of the audience time-shifted the show. That’s almost half of the dedicated audience watching it on their DVRs. It’s been such a loyal fanbase. I will be really disheartened if the viewer base decides to not watch because it shifted one night. I hope they go with it, and if not they have the option of picking it up on their DVRs. If it does anywhere near what it did on Thursdays, we can glue that show to the schedule because it can be a big win for us.”

--Jason "Fringe's numbers on a Friday would be big... there is muuuch less pressure for success on Fridays" Evans

[Lord Ash]

Glad to see that... Thursdays are PACKED, and Friday seems to be a great DVR night.

[JasonEvans]

Glad to see that... Thursdays are PACKED, and Friday seems to be a great DVR night.

Yup, I was having trouble fitting Fringe on my DVR what with Thursdays heavy slate of recording. Here is what I DVR that day...

Big Bang, !%! My Dad Says, Fringe, 30 Rock, Office, Grey's Anatomy, and there are often Duke or other basketball games I want to watch that night. Yikes!!

Moving Fringe to Fridays is fine with me... so long as it does not get canceled there. Recall that Miami Vice was a Friday staple in the 1980s. TV shows can be big hits on that night.

-Jason "when Park and Rec comes back, that'll be another Thursday night record" Evans

[Lord Ash]

When Parks and Rec comes back I'll be a happy camper:)

[DukeFan83]

I've never been able to get into Fringe. I just don't like the combination of super-serious drama of the first season with the corny "father-son" humor of the recent promotions. Should I really give it a try? Also, someone make a mentat joke. Nice.

[DukeFan83]

Okay, so I'll admit the alt-world episodes are interesting me. I do like that idea. What do I have to know to watch the show? Will a wiki be enough, or should I just find a way to watch the show from the beginning. Also, I saw the X-Files. What is the Chiller Network?

[DukeCrow]

Just thought I'd mention that Fringe was renewed for another season.
:D

[JasonEvans]

Just thought I'd mention that Fringe was renewed for another season.
:D

I saw this news a couple weeks ago (http://articles.cnn.com/2011-03-28/entertainment/fringe.ratings.go_1_science-fiction-fans-licorice-low-ratings?_s=PM:SHOWBIZ) and forgot to post about it. Fringe's producers say the early pickup was a good thing because it allows them to plan for the Season 3 finale knowing there will be a season 4. Sounds like we are in store for a doozy of a cliffhanger.

Fox says it is quite pleased with Fringe because it gets ratings on a Friday that are really impressive for that day of the week. In fact, Fox claims that Fringe is the highest rated program on TV on Fridays when you factor in regular viewers as well as "live plus 7" which is people who watch it on a DVR within 7 days of the first run. Fringe has a huge DVR following.

Of course, being a big deal on Fridays is not much of a big deal as Friday is the worst day of the week for TV-watching. Still, it is a good sign an probably the thing that helped Fringe to get a 4th season.

By the way, the 4th season will be 22-episodes.

I hated the last episode-- with the animated stuff inside Olivia's mind. Clearly, they used the animation to allow them to bring back William Bell, using Leonard Nimoy's voice but not requiring him to be on-set acting. I really thought they were going to use the soul magnet concept to put Williams Bell in someone else, allowing them to bring the character back with someone other than Nimoy. I still think it is possible they will do that as I am not convinced that William Bell's consciousness is gone for good.

Anyway, I did not enjoy the episode very much. It felt a bit like an Inception knock-off at times.

--Jason "I will say that Anna Torv did a great job playing a woman with Leonard Nimoy inhabiting her mind" Evans

[killerleft]

Whew! The last few episodes had me thinking the show was heading for a dramatic end in two weeks.

Elsewhere... nobody miss the kiss Sheldon gets from Amy Farrah Fowler!

[JasonEvans]

Whew! The last few episodes had me thinking the show was heading for a dramatic end in two weeks.

Why does the machine, which everyone describes as "ancient tech" only operate off of Peter's DNA? That is unexplained and makes no sense.

I feel like the show has followed an interesting pattern for the past couple seasons, giving us more and more details about the alternate universe and then getting into the "war" between the two universes. I worry a bit that they are going to drag things out too long. I would love for the show to say, "next season is our last" and then they really resolve a lot of things in a satisfactory way. For example, tell us a bit more about who or what The Observers are.

Anyway, I still very much enjoy the show and think it is easily the best Sci Fi on network TV (not saying much). I am thrilled Fox is giving it another season!

-Jason "I want Walternate and Walter to meet and talk" Evans

[OZZIE4DUKE]

-Jason "I want Walternate and Walter to meet and talk" Evans
I don't think that would end well for one of the Walters. I think our Walter would start our crying like a baby and end up killing Walternate, probably bashing in his head with a rock.

[JasonEvans]

Peter no longer exists?!?!? WTF?!?!

They got some 'splaining to do!

-Jason "I did not enjoy that season finale in the future -- it sorta felt meaningless" Evans

[Lord Ash]

Ah! Jason, so glad you brought this up!

That was a BARNBURNER of an ending. I think we won't actually be going back to the future (heh)... I think it was SOLELY to show Peter what would happen if he DIDN'T bring the two universes together. Kind of crazy that they seem intent on mixing the two universes! Definitely didn't see that coming... and I REALLY don't get the Peter/Observers thing. Strange stuff, but VERY glad the show was renewed:)

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Ah! Jason, so glad you brought this up!

That was a BARNBURNER of an ending. I think we won't actually be going back to the future (heh)... I think it was SOLELY to show Peter what would happen if he DIDN'T bring the two universes together. Kind of crazy that they seem intent on mixing the two universes! Definitely didn't see that coming... and I REALLY don't get the Peter/Observers thing. Strange stuff, but VERY glad the show was renewed:)
The last two weeks were very strange indeed.