Greatest Clutch Athlete

[Indoor66]

(I got this idea from the Dream vs Redeem Team thread on the EK Board. Since it is not Duke specific athlete, I created it here. Move it if appropriate.)

Who do you think is the greatest clutch athlete? I can think of several - Babe Ruth, "Mr. October" - Reggie Jackson, John Elway, Paul Hornung, John Unitas, Bobby Jones, Jack Nicklaus, Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, Christian Laettner, Bobby Orr, Pele, Maurice Richard, and many others.

What are your thoughts on who is the greatest?

For me, the modern greatest has to be Tiger Woods. He has performed, when he has had to, since he was 17 years old and continues, quite regularly, to make the great shot or putt when he needs to.

[willywoody]

as much as it pains me i'd say michael jordan.

[billybreen]

as much as it pains me i'd say michael jordan.

I agree, but before it's all said and done I may well change my vote to Tiger.

[lmb]

Joe Montana

Tiger Woods is probably the most clutch though.

[Bluedog]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Joe Montana
T-3. Tiger Woods/Larry Bird
5. Muhammad Ali
6. John Elway
7. Tom Brady
8. Pete Sampras (biased choice, just want some tennis representation! :D)
9. Reggie Jackson
10. Jerry Rice
11. Jack Nicklaus
12. Sandy Koufax

That's all I've got for now...

[allenmurray]

Of all time? Heck, I don't know. Of one particular moment? Brooks Robinson in the 1970 World Series.

[JasonEvans]

Even through our Duke blinders, we have to admit that Jordan is the man when it comes to the "clutch" quality. Not only is it almost impossible to count how many clutch, game/championship-winning shots in his career, I am at a loss to come up with any clutch shots he missed. I am sure there are some, but nothing comes to mind.

Jordan was 6-for-6 in NBA Finals appearances (winning the MVP every time). He won the national championship for the hated Heels as a freshman. I am sorry, but no one else comes close.

Tiger is a great second choice though he would appear to be far better protecting a lead than coming from behind. His career playoff record (something like 15-2, I think) also speaks quite well for his ability to perform in the clutch. Still, I rank him well behind MJ.

Montana, Elway, and Brady are amazing players, but football is such a team sport I have a hard time giving any individual too much credit. for any of them to be clutch, they need a heck of a lot of teammates to be helping out. Maybe that should not diminish their accomplishments, but to me, it does.

--Jason "good question-- do we need a poll?" Evans

[CameronBornAndBred]

Tiger has mine, his records in playoffs is incredible, as his is record on leading on Sunday.

[Bluedog]

Even through our Duke blinders, we have to admit that Jordan is the man when it comes to the "clutch" quality. Not only is it almost impossible to count how many clutch, game/championship-winning shots in his career, I am at a loss to come up with any clutch shots he missed. I am sure there are some, but nothing comes to mind.

I remember a commercial a while back talking about how many times Jordan has missed a game winning shot...

Here is the Nike ad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hFFyGkzoRo

"26 times I've been trusted to take the game winning shot, and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life, and that is why, I succeed," Jordan says in the ad. Don't know how accurate that is, but I assume they did some fact checking.

[ugadevil]

I'd go with Jordan. Part of the reason he sticks out to me is because he knew when to take the big shot, and he knew when to get the ball to his teammates in clutch situations. I think one of Michael's biggest clutch plays was getting the ball to Steve Kerr to knock down the shot in '97 to win the game and the championship.

[billybreen]

I'd go with Jordan. Part of the reason he sticks out to me is because he knew when to take the big shot, and he knew when to get the ball to his teammates in clutch situations. I think one of Michael's biggest clutch plays was getting the ball to Steve Kerr to knock down the shot in '97 to win the game and the championship.

Where were you when I needed you in the 'Dream Team vs. Redeem Team' thread? ;)

[jma4life]

Didn't he miss game winners against the Lakers in game one of the 91 finals and against the Pacers after the Reggie shot? Both of them were actually banks that spinned out if I'm not mistaken.

Anyway, I agree, its Jordan and its not too close.


Although I think HOrry is pretty high on there because of the discrepincy between his normal play and his clutch play. Jordan was always nasty. Tiger is always nasty.

But again, its still Jordan with Tiger second imo.

[Ben63]

Tiger.

Thats really all that needs to be said

[CathyCA]

I'm Duke blue, through and through.

Christian Laettner.

[Lavabe]

I'm Duke blue, through and through.

Christian Laettner.

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner.
:D

[YmoBeThere]

Edwin Moses...the dude didn't lose for years, 100+ races.

[mph]

Tiger narrowly over Jordan for me.

[brevity]

"Clutch" is a very limited term because you're really confined to only a few positions: QBs in football, shooters in basketball and hockey, and closers or HR hitters in baseball.

Fairly or unfairly, defensive players are not really considered clutch. Think of Hakim Warrick's last-second blocked shot for Syracuse, or Mike Jones' tackle at the 1-yard line for the Rams' Super Bowl victory. Great, memorable accomplishments, but not as heralded as what Joe Montana, Michael Jordan, or Kirk Gibson did.

Pete Sampras was an amazing player, but there's no such thing as "clutch" in tennis. Though for a time Jana Novotna could define the opposite of clutch.

All that said, I think Tiger Woods makes for a very nice answer because he introduces clutch to a sport that never really had it before. Before he came along, golf was like tennis: no such thing as clutch, but Greg Norman could embody its opposite.

But if pressed to make an answer, I'd probably adopt the purist approach and select a person who's most or best known for being clutch. (Compare to Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods, for whom "clutch" is just part of the overall package.) Robert Horry fits the bill, but how many of his shots do you actually remember? Do you even know what jersey he was wearing at the time, or what the stakes were?

Ah, but you do remember who got the ball back to beat Connecticut in 1990, who hit the late-game free throws against UNLV in 1991, and who managed to top both those accomplishments in 1992.

Christian Laettner. Case closed.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Since I can't add much to the list of current or past clutch performers, how about an athlete who will eventually be on or at the top of that list... LeBron James. They guy has an unbelievable capacity to take over a game and carry his team like Jordan did. Recall his performance against the Pistons in Game 5 of the eastern conference finals in '07. Absolutely amazing. Everyone in the building knew he was going to keep the ball and the Pistons still couldn't stop him.

[dukemomLA]

Being a HUGE Tiger fan, it's hard for me to not vote him any time, anyway for anything.

Christian L's shot comes close, but....much to my chagrin I have to add Kirk Gibson's HR into the mix.

[rasputin]

I wish his "clutch" ability had translated into success in the Ryder Cup. That is something I just can't understand. He has had success in every other format, including lots of match play wins as an amateur, and even in team match play in the President's Cup. Obviously his Ryder Cup record doesn't do him justice.

[Bostondevil]

Big Papi!

Only Laettner in my book comes close to David Ortiz. Perhaps you have to be a Sox fan but why anyone pitches to him after the 7th inning, I'm never really sure. Granted he hasn't had as many walk-offs this year, but, my goodness he's done it a lot.

Honorable Mention (for most clutch stolen base in MLB history): Dave Roberts. Still love the guy. And it's true, he'll never pay for another beer in the city of Boston for the rest of his life. You can leave the Sox and we'll still love you, as long as you don't go to the Yankees.

[billybreen]

Big Papi!

Only Laettner in my book comes close to David Ortiz. Perhaps you have to be a Sox fan but why anyone pitches to him after the 7th inning, I'm never really sure. Granted he hasn't had as many walk-offs this year, but, my goodness he's done it a lot.

What about Bucky F. Dent? :)

[hurleyfor3]

I'll be convinced of Eldrick's clutch ability if he ever decides to win a major without already having the lead on Saturday.

[ugadevil]

Honorable Mention (for most clutch stolen base in MLB history): Dave Roberts. Still love the guy. And it's true, he'll never pay for another beer in the city of Boston for the rest of his life. You can leave the Sox and we'll still love you, as long as you don't go to the Yankees.

Isn't Dave Roberts in the Red Sox Hall of Fame?

[Indoor66]

I'll be convinced of Eldrick's clutch ability if he ever decides to win a major without already having the lead on Saturday.

You still have to make the shots and putts to win whenever you lead. Also, when you lead on Saturday the field can shoot at you and you have to respond. he responds. Is that not clutch?

[calltheobvious]

Even through our Duke blinders, we have to admit that Jordan is the man when it comes to the "clutch" quality. Not only is it almost impossible to count how many clutch, game/championship-winning shots in his career, I am at a loss to come up with any clutch shots he missed. I am sure there are some, but nothing comes to mind.

Jordan was 6-for-6 in NBA Finals appearances (winning the MVP every time). He won the national championship for the hated Heels as a freshman. I am sorry, but no one else comes close.

Tiger is a great second choice though he would appear to be far better protecting a lead than coming from behind. His career playoff record (something like 15-2, I think) also speaks quite well for his ability to perform in the clutch. Still, I rank him well behind MJ.

Montana, Elway, and Brady are amazing players, but football is such a team sport I have a hard time giving any individual too much credit. for any of them to be clutch, they need a heck of a lot of teammates to be helping out. Maybe that should not diminish their accomplishments, but to me, it does.

--Jason "good question-- do we need a poll?" Evans

The text I bolded sort of makes the SABRmetric point that it's tough to find support for the existence of "clutchness" in the first place. Check out the names listed. Almost to a person, we're talking about the greatest of all-time. We should expect the greatest of all-time to come through more often "when it counts" than anyone else, because, well, they're the best. One could argue that this is a chicken-egg discussion, except that all of those people also performed at the highest level when the spotlight wasn't so bright.

As for the difficulty of remembering failures, it's not because there weren't many. It's because they're not as exciting, and thus don't stick like the successful efforts do.

CT"Is the play-off record of Mark Lemke not enough for you to dismiss 'clutch' in favor of 'random?'"O

[Olympic Fan]

I'm not an NBA guy, so I'm not qualified to tell you Jordan's clutch success vs. failure ratio in the pros. I'm sure he was a clutch player, but the NBA's best ever? I don't know ... was he really better than the guy nicknamed Mr. Clutch (Jerry West) or a guy like Russell who won 10 titles in the 11 seasons he was healthy?

I do know that as a college player, Jordan was anything but clutch in big games. Yes, he hit the game-winner against Georgetown in 1982 and that was clutch -- although you should remember that it was James Worthy (who later earned the nickname 'Big Game James') who carried UNC to that victory (28 points on 13 of 17 shooting). It was Worthy who was the Final Four MVP ... the East Regional MVP and the ACC Tournament MVP.

I do know that after Worthy graduated, Jordan consistently failed to deliver the clutch basket or the clutch performance when it counted.

In the 1983 ACC Tournament semifinal loss to NC State, Sam Perkins and Brad Daugherty were great -- but Jordan stunk up the place with a 4-of-12, 13-point performance. He was awful against Ohio State in the regional semifinals (5 of 15 from the floor). He was better against Georgia with 26 points -- but he was under 50 percent from the floor (11 of 23) and was outplayed by Georgia's James Banks -- the guy he was guarding was voted the regional MVP!

Jordan was national player of the year as a junior in 1984. But UNC again lost in the ACC semifinals, this time to Duke. Jordan wasn't as bad as he was against State the year before ... he had 22 points, but again shot under 50 percent (11 of 23) and couldn't hit the shots in the clutch to beat the Devils. He also missed the first shot of a one-and-one with the score tied late.

After a fairly easy first-round win against Temple, when Jordan played great, he ended his college career with the most famous individual flameout in ACC history. Guarded by a slow white guy named Dan Dakich, Jordan missed 8 of 14 shots and finished with 13 points as top-seeded UNC was upset by a young, not-very-good Indiana team (which lost in the next round of the tourney to a Sampson-less Virginia team that had finished 6-8 in the ACC). I know foul trouble is the typical UNC excuse for his meltdown, but he did play 26 minutes and was about as effective as Matt Doherty.

Some clutch player ... one clutch shot as a freshman, yes, but failure after failure once Worthy was gone and Jordan became UNC's star.

[weezie]

I wish his "clutch" ability had translated into success in the Ryder Cup. That is something I just can't understand. He has had success in every other format, including lots of match play wins as an amateur, and even in team match play in the President's Cup. Obviously his Ryder Cup record doesn't do him justice.

Eldrick has never struck me as a "team" kind of guy. I saw him play in the Ryder at Oakland Hills and he is so inwardly focused, I dunno.

[rsvman]

for mentioning the winner, Jerry "Mr. Clutch" West.

Methinks most of the posters in this thread are too young to remember just how clutch he was.

[rasputin]

The text I bolded sort of makes the SABRmetric point that it's tough to find support for the existence of "clutchness" in the first place. Check out the names listed. Almost to a person, we're talking about the greatest of all-time. We should expect the greatest of all-time to come through more often "when it counts" than anyone else, because, well, they're the best. One could argue that this is a chicken-egg discussion, except that all of those people also performed at the highest level when the spotlight wasn't so bright.

As for the difficulty of remembering failures, it's not because there weren't many. It's because they're not as exciting, and thus don't stick like the successful efforts do.

CT"Is the play-off record of Mark Lemke not enough for you to dismiss 'clutch' in favor of 'random?'"O

Ditto for the World Series record of Billy Martin (as a player). BA=.333, SA=.566. (lifetime regular season stats were .257 and .369). Billy had 99 WS at bats (a fairly significant sample), but you still have to view it as random.

[willywoody]

I'm not an NBA guy, so I'm not qualified to tell you Jordan's clutch success vs. failure ratio in the pros. I'm sure he was a clutch player, but the NBA's best ever? I don't know ... was he really better than the guy nicknamed Mr. Clutch (Jerry West) or a guy like Russell who won 10 titles in the 11 seasons he was healthy?...

Some clutch player ... one clutch shot as a freshman, yes, but failure after failure once Worthy was gone and Jordan became UNC's star.

good points. his nba career definitely overshadows his ncaa career. i didn't follow his college career at all and am always surprised when i hear he was player of the year as i don't have any memories of him in college except for that georgetown game his freshman year.

[Bostondevil]

What about Bucky F. Dent? :)

One lucky swing does not make you clutch. And it wouldn't have been a home run in any other park. That's what made it so hard to take. Fenway let the Sox down. (For the record, I was not yet a Sox fan so this one doesn't hurt so much.)

And, yes, I believe Dave Roberts is in the Red Sox Hall of Fame, as he should be.

[Olympic Fan]

I'm enjoying this thread, but I'm really not sure what we're talking about.

Is a "clutch" performance a great play at the end of a game or contest? Or is it a great performance in an important game or contest? Does it have to be both? Can it be either?

Take Tiger Woods. Nobody in history has a better success rate in the major tournaments than this guy. But for the most part, he wins with overpowering performances. He always wins when he leads going into the last round ... but until this year's US Open, did he have a dramatic, come-from-behind win? I'm asking -- he might (I'm not a golf nut), but it seems like his "clutch" play is playing great when it matters most and is rarely a matter of last-second heroics.

We've talked about Jordan's shot to beat Georgetown. He played fairly well in that game, but Worthy was clearly the best player on the floor. Which performance qualifies as clutch? Do both?

Can a player qualify as clutch is he has a lousy game, but hits a big shot or makes a big play at the end to win? Duke's Jason Williams was, I think, a master of this. Yeah, he had plenty of great games, but he also had plenty of games when he was awful for most of the game, but did something amazing in the final seconds -- the Gone in 55 seconds game at Maryland is a great example ... but so was the 2001 national title game, when he was 4-14 from the floor and 1-10 on 3-pointers when he stepped up with a minute left and hit the 3 that clinched the win.

Was that clutch?

I'd like to examine JJ Redick's record. I've heard Carolina fans taunt him that he never hit a last-second shot to win a game. Technically, that's true ... although I can think of at least half a dozen games (including his last visit to the Smith Center and the 2006 ACC title game) when he hit big shots at crucial moments late to break games open or to turn them around. I don't remember the exact stat, but I recall reading that his scoring average and his shooting percentage were significantly higher against ranked teams than against unranked opponents.

On one hand, Redick was always at his best in ACC Tournament play, while he was at his worst in NCAA play. You can make the case that he's the greatest ACC Tounament performer of all times. Not only does he hold the tourney career scoring record, but he was a two-time MVP who easily could have been the only three-time MVP (unfortunately, his explosion in the final 10 minutes of the 2003 title game came after most of the votes were cast).

I won't go into his NCAA Tourney record -- it's too painful to recall.

Anyway, I ask you this: Does Redick qualify as a clutch player?

[hurleyfor3]

Take Tiger Woods. Nobody in history has a better success rate in the major tournaments than this guy. But for the most part, he wins with overpowering performances. He always wins when he leads going into the last round ... but until this year's US Open, did he have a dramatic, come-from-behind win? I'm asking -- he might (I'm not a golf nut), but it seems like his "clutch" play is playing great when it matters most and is rarely a matter of last-second heroics.


He's had a few come-from-behinds in ordinary PGA Tour events, and had to make up a deep deficit in the championship match of his first U.S. Amateur. However, Eldrick has never won a major as a professional without holding at least a share of the lead after the third round.

The Walking Nike Commercial certainly deserves credit for very carefully cultivating his image, with all the Sunday-red-wearing and fist-pumping and whatnot.

[billybreen]

One lucky swing does not make you clutch.

Yeah, I just like saying Bucky F. Dent. It has a similar effect here (at least with older Sox fans) to saying Laettner in Lexington.

[Papa John]

Is a "clutch" performance a great play at the end of a game or contest? Or is it a great performance in an important game or contest? Does it have to be both? Can it be either?

IMHO, I'd say it's either, but a true clutch performer would be someone who consistently steps up his or her game when the spotlight grows most intense... And for this very reason...


Take Tiger Woods. Nobody in history has a better success rate in the major tournaments than this guy. But for the most part, he wins with overpowering performances. He always wins when he leads going into the last round ... but until this year's US Open, did he have a dramatic, come-from-behind win? I'm asking -- he might (I'm not a golf nut), but it seems like his "clutch" play is playing great when it matters most and is rarely a matter of last-second heroics.

...Tiger is one of the greatest 'clutch' athletes of all time (again IMHO)... Talk about a guy who is laser-focused when the spotlight is intense--Woods steps his game up in a big way when the majors roll around, which is why he wins so many... And his six straight U.S. junior/amateur championships in match play is simply unprecedented...


Can a player qualify as clutch is he has a lousy game, but hits a big shot or makes a big play at the end to win? Duke's Jason Williams was, I think, a master of this. Yeah, he had plenty of great games, but he also had plenty of games when he was awful for most of the game, but did something amazing in the final seconds -- the Gone in 55 seconds game at Maryland is a great example ... but so was the 2001 national title game, when he was 4-14 from the floor and 1-10 on 3-pointers when he stepped up with a minute left and hit the 3 that clinched the win.

Was that clutch?

Heck yeah! I'd place J-Will in a grouping of other-than-Laettner clutch Duke players of all time...

[Indoor66]

IMHO, I'd say it's either, but a true clutch performer would be someone who consistently steps up his or her game when the spotlight grows most intense... And for this very reason...



...Tiger is one of the greatest 'clutch' athletes of all time (again IMHO)... Talk about a guy who is laser-focused when the spotlight is intense--Woods steps his game up in a big way when the majors roll around, which is why he wins so many... And his six straight U.S. junior/amateur championships in match play is simply unprecedented...



Heck yeah! I'd place J-Will in a grouping of other-than-Laettner clutch Duke players of all time...

Great points. To me, a clutch player is the player who consistantly steps up to the table when the money is on the line and then TAKES it. That can be at the beginning, middle or end of the game. Tiger qualifies, Michael qualifies, Christian qualifies, Ruth qualified, Mantle qualified, Nicklaus, Hogan, Nelson qualified, Bird qualified, etc.

[ugadevil]

Tiger qualifies, Michael qualifies, Christian qualifies, Ruth qualified, Mantle qualified, Nicklaus, Hogan, Nelson qualified, Bird qualified, etc.

DeMarcus right? He hit some big shots at some point or another! I just can't remember them. :D

[mapei]

I'm embarrassed to say that I am not quite sure who Bucky Dent is. JWill was clutch at times, and notably UNclutch at others, missing key free throws against Indiana and, Virginia was it?

Laettner was undoubtedly clutch, maybe the best ever at the collegiate level, and so was Shane if you count defensive plays.

But my vote goes to Roger Federer. I know he now seems to be a step or two past his peak, but I have *never* seen anyone play the big points better than he did during his incredible 4+ year run as the world's best tennis player. That is so hard in such a mentally as well as physically demanding sport. Find himself down 15-40 on his serve? No problem - he'd hit two aces followed by two winners, and I'm not exaggerating. Amazing.

[Papa John]

But my vote goes to Roger Federer. I know he now seems to be a step or two past his peak, but I have *never* seen anyone play the big points better than he did during his incredible 4+ year run as the world's best tennis player. That is so hard in such a mentally as well as physically demanding sport. Find himself down 15-40 on his serve? No problem - he'd hit two aces followed by two winners, and I'm not exaggerating. Amazing.

And Nadal is evolving into the same type of clutch/money player... I literally had not watched one moment of tennis in years until this years' Wimbledon men's final, and I was completely transfixed... One of the most amazing tennis matches I have ever seen!

[mapei]

Absolutely one for the ages. It was transcendent tennis and a damn shame someone had to lose.

I see Nadal as more the guy who WILL NOT go down - you have to beat him, because he will never beat himself, and no one makes it harder. More a consistent player than a clutch, big-point player, though time will tell if he stays on top for a while and gets seriously challenged. Federer has already secured his position as one of the sport's all-time greats, and as you suggest Nadal could well become one.

Borg-McEnroe 1980 is the only other big-time match that rivals this year's Wimbledon final, unless you go WAY back to one of Margaret Court's matches vs. a young BJ King that went an amzing number of games prior to tiebreakers. I never saw it live but I've seen video of it.